23 Ga Pinners — no countersinking??
nikkiwood
| Posted in Tools for Home Building on
I spoke to a Senco tech guy today, and he told me their Pinner is not designed to countersink the nails.
Is that true of all these 23 Ga pinners — or just the Senco?
Even though the nails are small and next to invisible, I would think they should should be countersunk enough so you could smear some putty in there if you wanted to.
Replies
senco won't countersink...
that fine of a pin is so that you won't have to fill and sand...
sand down the nose if you still want the countersunk thing..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I have the PC 23 g and it sinks em about 1 or 2 mm
........... Rik.......
my cheapie accuset sets them ...
a buddy bought the same on after senco painted them grey and his doesn't.
Mine's about 2 or 3 years old ... his pretty new.
He called senco too ... they told him the same thing.
Musta changed something ...
but ... like already mentioned ... he just took a belt sander to the pin driver.
now his "sets" ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
you never found that SHP10???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
is that(not sinking the pins) so the driver doesent dent the work-piece?when you sand down the nose does the driver now dent the workpiece?______________________________________________
--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
we're only talking a few thousands of an inch here that's why the sanding..
not if you don't take off too much..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Edited 1/18/2005 9:21 pm ET by IMERC
haven't had the extra cash since!
shoulda bought it right when ya told me ...
I'd still be broke but I'd have the real deal gun.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
shall one be kept at hand..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I got my Sence 23ga last year, and not only did it not set the pins, it left them a hair high. Talked to Senco, got the same story as the other guys. I filed the tip down, works ok now but you can't angle the gun even a little bit. Even nailing scotia can be too much and leaves the pin proud.
yurs must be the pro pinner..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Yeah, it's not the one that looks like the old Accuset. Does that one work better? Why do they call this one Pro? You don't look very professional when the client sees you throwing your gun and swearing....
More of that PR thingt ya suppose..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
It's a design flaw that senco will not own up to. What do you expect from a company that out sources to 35 cents per hour labor?"One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions"
The Senco pinner in question is the Finish Pro 10.I actually bought the thing from my local tool supplier, with the understanding I could either return it or trade it in on the Porter Cable pinner.I chose the Senco mainly because I like the idea that the magazine has to be set for the size nail you're using -- which then always tells you what type of nail is in the gun.However, if some of you can tell me if the PC pinner does a decent job countersinking the pins, I would exchange the Senco.Also, the PC has a two-trigger safety set up, whereas the Senco fires off the nail whenever you hit the trigger. Thus, if you inadvertently hit the trigger on your way to the work piece, the nail will fire -- not exactly a good thing.
Nik, now that you mention it, that safety-less fire really bothers me too. Hate to get one of those pins in the eye! If you go with the PC let us know how you like it. I've always been a big Senco guy but I'm really not happy with my pinner.
This has me wondering. Looking at a big crown job and was considering Senco Pinner purchase. You know, the "I need that to do this work" syndrome. Already have Senco SLP 20 and SFN 40.
Is there another pinner that y'all recommend?
PJ
Whatever you can do or dream you can,
Begin it
Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Goethe
Well, there's the Porter Cable -- it has a two trigger set up (to prevent misfiring), but I don't know if it is any better at countersinking the nails than Senco. Bostich also has a 23 ga pinner that will accept pins up to 1 3/16" -- but my local guy does not carry it, so I have not seen it. I already have a couple of Bostich nail guns, and I am not a big fan.There is another pinner, Omer, which I think is Italian made. I have only been able to find it mail order -- from nailzone.com. But it is about twice the cost ($250) of the others, altho it came highly recommended, and will take a 1 1/8" pin. Nobody around here services this brand, so I am hesitant to take the plunge on an expensive tool that does require periodic servicing. Maybe someone will weigh in on the PC -- and whether it can countersink.
I have the Omer and would not ever consider another. This gun buries the pins in oak, maple, mahogany, poplar, you name it. I've had it quite a while now and it has paid for itself many times over. It's a well built tool, and you pay for it. Plain and simple.Jim"I want a good clean fight. No head butts, no rabbit punches, and no hitting below the belt. Break when I say break, and protect yourself at all times."
One extra thought is that the nose of the gun does dimple the wood a bit, especially softer stock. It's the only disadvantage that I've noticed."I want a good clean fight. No head butts, no rabbit punches, and no hitting below the belt. Break when I say break, and protect yourself at all times."
<<"I got my Senco 23ga last year, and not only did it not set the pins, it left them a hair high.">>So what do you do when this happens?
Jim
Over at knots there is a discussion going on regarding the 23g pinner.
Someone over there said that the Omer was the same thing as the Cadex(Canadian Co.) claims he heard that right from the horses mouth.
Have you heard that, I'm considering either of the two mentioned.
Not going to get either the senco or the PC, don't think either is worth sh!t.
Doug
I hadn't heard that. But what ever the case, I'm glad I have the Omer and feel it was worth every cent. If there's a comprable gun out there for less $ I'd certainly be interested. I sent Roe Osborne at FHB an email saying that they should do a review since these guns are becoming more and more a part of our arsenal. He seemed interested and I can't see why they wouldn't run a real thorough review.Keep me informed about what you find out.ThanksJim"I want a good clean fight. No head butts, no rabbit punches, and no hitting below the belt. Break when I say break, and protect yourself at all times."
Hey Doug, have you got a link, or an address for Cadex? I can't seem to find 'em. Thanks. Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Here's the Knots thread. Looked at both sites, tools don't look like twins.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages/?start=Start+Reading+%3E%3E
Omer is also at Western Tool Supply.
http://www.westerntool.com/product.htm?pid=428622
Someone on this board works there...no? Memory loss, what a drag!PJ
Whatever you can do or dream you can, Begin it Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Goethe
Billy
http://www.omertools.comhttp://www.cadextools.com
I don't see them as that similar! At least in appearance.
The thing that I see everybody say about both of those guns is that they counter sink, something that I personally want, don't care what others say, I don't want the pin flush with the surface. Have to wonder what happens when they do in-between sanding on finish work.
Also everybody that has either the Cadex or the Omer say that you can angle the gun and still get the nail to sink, something that I have seen as a flaw in the Senco and PC.
I dont care that the Omer and Cadex cost a bit more I want the gun to do what its supposed to do.
doug
There is also a company in Jax. Fl that is advertising in FWW that has a 23g pinner that shoots a 1 9/16 nail, they dont have a web site. If your there for the Super Bowl you can check them out!
Edited 1/23/2005 1:31 pm ET by Doug@es
So since you have to set the pinner anyway and fill the hole so what makes it so much better than say a 18 ga. If you have to fill the hole anyway???
Ron
I dont fill the holes on the 23g, they are very small. The finish will fill them.
They never split the wood, thats the other reason to use it. Sometimes the trim that you are putting on is very delicate and a 18g would/could split the wood.
Doug
how do you set the pins then that everyone on this thread have said is standing proud of the wood surface? Is it so small that you dont have to worry about setting them?
I had an older style Senco, I don't think they make it anymore, it set the nails OK. But it couldn't take a nose dive off of a ladder!
Occasionally I have a nail proud of the wood, you can sand it off, its so thin that it takes very little to do so.
The POS Senco and Accuset that we have at work will set the nail if you push on the gun with a fair amount of pressure. But you can not hold the gun at an angle and expect the nail to set. That's something that every body that owns the Cadex or Omer say there guns will do.
The other reason that I will probably end up getting the Omer or Cadex is that both have the ability to shoot a 1 3/8"( I think that's the length) pin. I see times where the 1" pin is just not enough.
Doug
Just got done ordering the Cadex, I like the idea that it shoots a nail 1 3/16" and you don't have to adjust the mechanism for the different size nails.
According to the guy at Omer/Cadex, same distributor, different manufacturers, the Omer has the nail slide do-ma-jiggy, just like the Senco, you have to change it when you change the length of the nail. This is a problem because if you don't you will wear the driver out quicker, and at $30+ a pop I don't want to be replacing that part regularly.
The gun was about $170 give or take, but I bought a sh!t load of nails so my bill was two and a quarter, +/-.
Edited 1/24/2005 6:49 pm ET by Doug@es
That cadex 21 shoots 1 9/16", might be the way I go. Thanks for the address. Don't worry, we can fix that later!
I gave serious thought to that one as well, but I always figured that I would find someone who had one and just barrow it! :)
Doug
Het, glad I know someone who's gonna have a 23...LOL Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Try grexusa.com they have a new pinner that i have used. Around 200 bucks and shoots up to 1 3/8.
Remember that the cadex 21 is a 21gauge. It is a slightly larger dia than the 23.
Doesn't seem too much bigger around,I've just had many occasions to use longer nails than shortys. Maybe someone can post a side by side pic of 21 and 23 g holes?...is this beginning to sound like a bunch of strange innuendos?<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
found another 23g pinner, hell prety soon everybody will be making them!
http://www.kmstools.com/scripts/products/product.php?BYN-FNP23&107%3C-%3E128%3C-%3E206
Never heard of this company, well with the exception of Tim Taylor using em of course but I think he spelled it differently.
Saw your coment on the 21 vs 23, how available are the 21 g nails going to be. I guess if you plan ahead you can always order them. That would leave me out though.
Doug
Edited 2/1/2005 7:17 pm ET by Doug@es
Bynford.
Does anyone remember Bynford before Home Improvement and Tim Taylor? I assumed it was a made-up name.
Now I see them and wonder if some smart importer has just started marketing existing tools with a moniker change. The name recognition would be big... and that means a bunch when it comes to selling anything.
Comments?
Sorry to hijack...I'm real curious.PJ
Whatever you can do or dream you can, Begin it Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Goethe
Bynford is a trade name of a Canadian tool store air tools line. I have a 18 gauge nailer and have no complaint. These tools are made offshore and are made in the same factory as other better brands. As the sales rep said better than most nailers but not at the top of the line nailers. I am considering that nailer too. But the cadex 21 shoots both 21 gauge brads and 23 gauge pins. and longer lengths.
I knew I'd used an Omer that shot around 1 1/2" pins...this place looks pretty good, my DW's cousin (who visits regularly) can save me some shipping<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Billy
I was using my Cadex all day Friday, man is it sweet! I'll never pick up one of those POS Senco/Accuset guns in the shop again.
I imagine the Omer is the same quality.
Doug
aarrrgggghhhh! I forgot to post the link:http://www.floydtool.com/seems like cadex is made by max, I've only heard good things about 'em Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Billy
seems like cadex is made by max
If that's the case then I'm doubly glad that I bought it!
I have a Max roofing nailer(it just collects dust now) and I love it.
Max makes some really good stuff. I think there finish nailers are considered tops in the business but a bit pricey.
Doug
There are two Cadex 23 gauge headless pinners:
The CP23.30 is made in Canada, and shoots up to 30mm (1-3/16")
The CP23.35 is made in Japan by Max, and shoots up to 35mm (1-3/8")
The CP23.30 is priced to compete with the Senco, Porter Cable, etc. tools
The CP23.35 is a premium grade tool comparable to the Omer PR28
tbird
I was told that the CP23.35 was new. The CP23.30 was all that they had up until they introduced the 35.
Is that about right?
Just curious.
I don't see the 23.30 as a comparable gun to the senco/accuse/portercable guns. Way above them.
Omer is coming out with a new model of 23g. At least that's what the guy at Omer distribution says.
Doug
Doug, the CP.2335 is new for Cadex, has been sold by Max in Japan for some time.
I agree that the quality of the CP23.30 is above that of the others in it's price range.
Jamie at Omer Direct has told me about a new model of Omer pinner, but I have no idea when it might be available. For now the PR28 23 gauge and MG40 21 gauge pinner/ brad nailer seem to be it.
tbird
Ok I just did a side by side comparison of the Cadex (CP23.35) VS the Grex (P635) 23g, 1 3/8" capicity piners. THEY ARE THE SAME TOOL, just differnt paint jobs.
Interestingly the Cadex website dose not show the 1 3/8" capcity piner, only the 1 3/16" version. So you have to go to the link that bucksnort posted.
Edited 2/20/2005 2:56 pm ET by reinvent
re
The reason that the Cadex site doesnt show the 1 3/8" gun is because its new, just havent updated there site.
Maybe they want to unload the other guns before they update?
Doug
But is your Cadex countersinking the nails -- enough to fill with putty if needs be?
Yes, it definitely counter sinks the nail.
That's why I bought it over that pos Senco/Accuset DIY nailer.
Doug
Re: CadexWhere did you buy it, and how much did it cost?Did you check into the Omer?I bought the Senco recently, and you're right. It is a pos.
nikkiwood
I got mine directly from the Cadex,
http://www.omertools.comhttp://www.cadextools.com
When they answer they say, "Omer tool", Omer distribution handles both tools.
The reason that I went with the Cadex is because you don't have to adjust that mechanism on the side like you do with the senco/accuset or the Omer.
Omer is coming out with a new gun very soon. Got all this from Jamie when I called the Cadex ph. no.
The Cadex gun that I bought cost approx. $165, it shoots 1 3/16" and the new one that shoots 1 3/8" pins is approx. $240.
I didn't know that there was a 1 3/8" nailer until someone at BT mentioned that that's what he had. I talked to Jamie and he said that if I wanted to I could return it and get the newer style. I chose to keep what I had.
I know that the Omer is a very good gun, I'm sure that its equal to the Cadex. I just don't like the sliding mechanism that you have to change when you change nail size.
Jamie said that that is one of the problems with the Omer, if you forget to change the slide when you change nail size it will cause the firing pin to wear out fast. I think he said that they sell approx. 10% of the Omers sold a new firing pin. They cost about $35.
I think I saw your name on the thread over at Knots regarding this subject, if not you can check it out. Its in Tools sec.
Doug
Yeah, you did see my name over at Knots. That discussion started just after I started this thread. After a lot of teeth gnashing, I bought the Senco. And man, am I sorry I did. I used it for one job, and I would say only about 10% of the nails were driven deep enough to take color putty -- which was necessary because the cabinets were a natural maple.I was sorely tempted to buy either the Omer or Cadex, but didn't because 1) I had never heard of them, and 2) I don't think there is any service available locally. But I am going to call your buddy Jaime, and get his advice about the servicing issue. Know anybody who would like to buy a Senco pinner -- cheap. Only used once........Thanks again for your help.
How cheap?6 16 17 97 99
what about the SHP10???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I just think this is more good info for FHB to do a tool review. I know the gang over at FWW might do one, but their needs are a bit different than ours. I think this thread should be brought to SYSOP's attention.Jim"I want a good clean fight. No head butts, no rabbit punches, and no hitting below the belt. Break when I say break, and protect yourself at all times."
How do 23 ga. pinners hold compared asgainst an 18 ga pinner?
To be honest I've considered my 23 gauge an important tool because it won't split fine details like self-returns. I do alot of custom made trim work and I'd hate to have a piece blow out on me. My 23 gauge is used more as a clamp for the glue and to affix delicate details to a cabinet, etc. To me an 18 gauge is a brad gun, an absolute necessity when it comes to smaller work or affixing trim around the perimeter of a window or door. Just as I'd never trade my 15 gauge angled nailer when I have to install crown. They're different animals with a different purpose."I want a good clean fight. No head butts, no rabbit punches, and no hitting below the belt. Break when I say break, and protect yourself at all times."
Like Jim said.
You can nail a tooth pick on and it wont split.
they shoot any where from 1/2" up to about 1 3/8", and the hole is very hard to see.
You wouldnt want to shoot your base shoe on with it but if you got some delicate trim its the cats meow!
Doug
Righto, I'm looking for something to use as little clamps, til the glue sets up, too. Do a lot of prefinshed trim/cabinet work, and some stuff, like plinth blocks are an inch thick. I've used something that shot 1 1/2" pins, and I thought it was an Omer. I know there was an Omer on the job, and it was sweet. But, it doesn't look like Omer makes such a beast.Someone asked if the 23g pins hold. In my experience the headless pins need some glue on the materials to really hold. I've seen some hot-shot cabinet guys nail up some stuff with em that didn't take much of a bump to fall off<G>Plan ahead??? Hell I'll just get a semi load, my kids can sell em on ebay...LOL Don't worry, we can fix that later!
I have been out installing a kitchen this last few days.
I had one of the helpers in the shop build my toe kick for me.
The duffus nailed the cherry skins on with 23g pins. Every one of the skins fell off as soon as I bumped the damn things.
Have to have a word with the boy when I get back to the shop on Friday.
The gun has its place but who the heck is going to see a nail hole down on a stinking kick!
Got my Cadex in the mail today, ohhhhhhhhh, its nice.
Doug
I started this thread since I was about to start making a room full of window/door casings with applied moldings. The wood was hard maple, with a natural finish.Here's what I learned about 23 ga pinners in this process. 1) I first bought a PC, which left divots on the wood surface as it drove the pin. Took it back.2) Got a Senco pinner instead; was supposed to produce at least a "slight" countersink. Does that -- but only about 10% of the time. That is, enough of a countersink to hold putty.3) Did a first coat of varnish without filling any of the pinner holes. I thought it looked terrible; under a natural finish (on maple), the holes were extremely obvious.4) Spent hours sinking all the pins with a tiny nail set. Easy to do, but time consuming. Filled all the holes with matching color putty; did second coat of varnish. Looked great.5) Maybe you don't have to fill these pin holes in oak -- or a stained wood -- but they sure looked awful with the maple. 6) THE BIG LESSON. Buy the Omer or Cadex -- or any other pinner -- that will for sure countersink the pins (without leaving a divot around the pin). Even if it costs a $100 more, you will be ahead of the game.Anybody want to buy a Senco 23 Ga pinner -- used for only one job? Will sell cheap.
Have you though of the collins clamps they will do what you want.
I "won" a set of Collins clamps over at Quittin'Time. They are great for miters, and I use 'em all the time... no go for plinth blocks, though. Don't worry, we can fix that later!
thanks for the info, think I'll get me one!
Harbor Freight- $59.00
Baseboard been VERRRY good to me
I would guess it preforms like a typical harbor freight tool!
So far , so good. I feel this tool represents a better value than a PC for $179.00. Also check out a Woodtek 23 ga. from woodworker.com. Complete kit with a replacement driver, $109.00
Baseboard been VERRRY good to me
If you want the Max version,
http://wis.max-ltd.co.jp/int/muc/pshow.php?productcode=ZT99947
Can't find any prices for it anywhere.
...karl
Well, I was able to take a PC pinner for a test spin, and the thing left a divot next to the nail -- even if I just kissed the work piece with it. I going with the Senco, but I think the real deal is probably that Omer gun -- but it is twice the price.
I was at The Woodworking Show (thewoodworkingshows.com) yesterday and checked out the Grex 23 gauge pinner. Very nice! On sale at the show for $198. Maybe next year.
I angle shot 2 pins into a piece of oak crown into a cherry block. I could not pull the crown off the cherry block without prying. It countersunk both pins no problem.
Grex rep said that they make pinners for Max and Cadex is made by Omer. Who knows who's telling the truth. But Grex was one very nice gun.
John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
I got the Omer, just about 5x more expensive, and you also have to use an Italian air compressor (these suckers gotta communicate eh!).
As for waiting til next year, we got two retailers floggin import 23 gauge at around the 60$ CDN mark, which is likely 45-50 us$, and some folks figure that if they don't set the brad enuf, you just grind off the snout, which is something I'd never dream of doing to a 400ish$ gun.
So go lookin and get in at bottom end, at least util yu got it figured out if the high end of the market place is worth it. There is an inexpensive entry point that ain't prohibitive.
I like this sucker.
Eric in Cowtown.