322 yr house wrapped with a steel cable
andybuildz
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
In the 322 year old house I just bought theres three steel cables that wrap around the whole house (round the framing under the siding). The owner said in the early 1800’s they did that when they raise a roof which they did to be able to put two doggie dormers on……Anyone ever hear of this technique?
Thanks
BE well
Naaste
Andy
It’s not who’s right, it’s who’s left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Replies
Andy,
I do not doubt that the technique has been used. I once used 4 steel cables to squeeze the top plates of a very old swaybacked home straight while simultaneously jacking the ridge. This was when I was young, immortal and even stupider than now. If I had had enough steel cable, I too would have wrapped that house.
I doubt that steel cables were used in the early 1800's however, since the bessemer converter was not invented until 1850 or so and I don't think steel rolling mills showed up for another dozen years. Basically, I'm saying that I doubt steel cable was produced commercially until the very late 1800's at the earliest. Perhaps some historian or metallurgist out there could help.
Clampman
been in some oldies that had roman numerals scratched into the rafters, supposedly some dude in the lumberyard cut the roof for you, the it was trucked( horse and buggy) to the job, and the hack carpenters erected it.
no turn left unstoned
never saw the wrap around deal.....but have done a ton of work on old row houses.......guess now they'd be "condo style rentals".........that were all brick construction. Two ....uh.....layers?....of brick.....a brick exterior wall and a brick interior wall...with about an inch or less airspace between the walls.
These must have started bowing in the middle......all are 2 story buildings......and most have a flat steel plate bolted at the second floor level.......visable from both ends...on the outside.......with threaded rod....running thru the building.....thru the second floor joists.........like a big clamp.
Not sure if the original idea was engineered.....or just threaded and tightened till a few bricks popped......then backed off a bit! These buildings have been low income rentals......old mil housing...for the last 80 or so years.........a family friend has been the current owner ....he's in his 80's.....and his mother owned them before.........we think the mill was the original owner/builder and she was the first to buy them "used".
All we do know is that the rods have been there "forever".....but were definitely added as a fix. They were probably added over 60 years ago. The old brick still have a bit of a box to them.....but haven't shifted noticably..and the "fix" looks like it took.
Kinda like a wall anchor system patented by a local company here...for fixing leaky and shifting basements. Big anchor dug outside....big threaded rod attached to it...and big plate/nut inside on basement wall that's tightened to straighten things up. Mathews Wall Anchor.....they probably have a web site....might get some ideas on the basics...and apply to your situation.
Jeff
.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
andy i wondering if that cable was'nt added after the fact?is that the proverbial DUH statement?? the cable i have seen in timber frames, with barns especially and large out building's. but more importantly the time was around early 1800's on. look for any evidence i.e. fastners, bolts ,lags, nails .322 yr's ago everything was primarily done with wood joinery, they had the technology. but the smelting process& than the facilities were in this country they we're very crude,pretty expensive and we're for more monumental, extensive community like projects churchs, meeting halls, etc . if memory serves that house had some pretty exceptional floors. are the still there , i hope?? i love the puzzle factors that go with old houses. for me it's half the enjoyment. cheers have fun. question; does that house have timber frame component's?? bear
Edited 9/1/2002 6:00:49 AM ET by the bear
Bear,
Youre right. I know the three cables that wrap around the house were in fact done in the early 1800's to keep the house intact while they removed the roof in order to put thosee two doggy dormers out front.
I also was given a whole bunch of articles about the house. It hasa pretyy intense history. It turns out its THE OLDEST house in Huntington. The larger beams are oak and were imported from Bardbados for some reason. The owner "Andrus Titus" had a brick factory (probably just a small shack) on the property where he manufactured the bricks they used on the house for the chimmneys and part of the foundation in one section that you can see today....duh. The farm was used primarily to raise coach horses and vegtables. Theres also a big long story of the house during Cival War but maybe I'll just try and copy the articles if anyone's really interested and pot it at some point.
And yeh....the floor planks are still there. Theyre huge...12-16" but some jerk (the ownerthat I bought it from's ex wife painted all the big ol floor boards so I spose I'll have to try and strip em' down somehow.Cant sand em' cause that would ruin the funky look of each plank.
Talk soon
Be well
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Now, I may be totaly off base with this, but I believe steel cable as we know it was invented by Roebbling for use on the Brooklyn Bridge. That would put it at about the 1880's or 90's. Maybe someone can confirm this.
dave your kinda right roebbling brought to a modern day , accesable building material. but it was used for mining and more important ship building staple for many years prior to that i believe. try this www. saminfo. com/ wire rope4. htm cheers the bear
The modern term for this is "roping a house" [with Romex]. It was an early attempt by primitive electrican's who were trying to install cable in/on a house but they didn't quite have the hang of it yet.
Modern houses still have cable wrapped around them but it's mainly copper nowadays.
-Peter
Wrought iron cable was first made in 1808 according to this: http://www.nvo.com/baldtus/faqaboutus/
Maybe it is wrought iron. If you put a grinder to wrought iron, it won't spark (as a way to test it).
I haven't heard about cabling a whole house being done, but some really weird things can be found in real old houses.
If the cables are pre 1870 they will be wrought iron -- if post 1870 they could be steel based. (may still be wrought iron). As noted in another post mild steel and steel in large volume did not happen until after Henry Bessemer's invention in 1856. First Bessemer convertor in USA was at Troy, NY in 1865. Interestingly Bessemer's invention was much better recieved in the USA than England. By 1900 the USA was out producing the UK by almost 5 to 1 in mild steel using the Bessemer process. The open hearth process came about 10 years later and was the other major process form making mild steel. (Steel had been around a long time -- but it was almost all high carbon tool steel of some form. Tool steel was expensive to make and used only for edged items, springs etc.)
Dave
Dave,
Is there a way to tell if the cables are steel vs iron? They look in perfect condition. In the attic are sort of turnbuckles where they join. This was apparently how they tightened the cables. I was told by the owner that it was done inthe early eighteen hundreds but who knows if he really knows.....he's just a lawyer...lol. Theres more and more real interesting things I'm findiing out about this house so any little detail can lead me to find out yet more,
Thanks and be well
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
i'll bet there wrought iron andy
I'm bettin yer right Bear...you'll just have to stop by here (at my current sold house and we'll cruise over there one mile away) and check it out.....Just bring a six so we don't make any mistakes....lol
Be well
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
the key is to have the right tools!!!!!!!!!
Bear......I pretty much have every tool and piece of eqipt. along with knowledge one might want.....I stopped buying tools I have so many....although I could use a bandsaw real bad and a Viel profile grinder to make cutting blades for my W& H.....
I always wonder when I drop dead....how my wifes gonna get rid of my tools..........DONT EVEN GO THERE ANYONE! Like I aint been here in Break time long enough......I have all the approx values posted for her and Ebay ready......lol....so wheres the "classifieds" here in Breaktime Andy E? Not that I'm ready to kick any buckets other then stacked spackle buckets when they dont come apart.
PS....A six (12) of Corona is the right tool....hehheh
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 9/2/2002 2:14:21 PM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
andy, andy , andy i WAS referring humoursly to the beer. an AFTER work tool, that get's little credit. : ) then corona it shall be...... cheers bear
Edited 9/2/2002 3:22:01 PM ET by the bear
went out to the shinne - i cant use that last word on the forum ,indian pow-wow this weekend. a real turd float but fun none the less. and the name titus was very, very prevalent at the pow-wow. and the names on mailbox's, that family really got around. there's also a very strong african -american influence, i take that is a old long island family that permeates quite a few families. do you know anything about this titus ????
Edited 9/2/2002 3:38:07 PM ET by the bear
Bear,
I have a whole lotta articles people gave me and Titus is da man..(I'll show you when you come around.....doubt anyone wants me to post it all)...Interesting what you found out.......anddddddd as you can see in the end of my post to you in an adjustment to what I wrote in the post.....after I wrote and sent it.....I figured it out,,,,,a-duh! The Coronasssssss!!!!!!!!!
Well....I'm probably da man.....brought up in a black hood of NYC, Brklyn and Corona Queens to Lawg Island to to to.......to this ol'crib.....seems according to everyone..has my name on it! Respectful of all races and would love to recreate with some adjustments according to ME!!!!! Just wait! Aint no F'in museum according to any stinkin historic duchebuckets....Its my home now and I have the respect and understanding and gonna bring it into my world now.........Museums are for lookers and history is for those that make it....Watch out y'all........Long live Andrus Titus and Andrew Clifford...lol....the respect is ringin' in my heart!
Be so well
Namaste'
Andy
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy, It is "easy" to tell wrought iron from steel if you can take a sample -- but I don't think you want to do that as long as you want to keep them in place. If split, wrought iron has a grain to it that looks much like a wood grain. This is from the silicon based slag that was always part of wrought iron. Another test is that the wrought iron which has almost no carbon has a very different spark than steel, if you grind it. Again I don't think you want to be grinding on this.
Lack of any rust, or a very fine rust is most likely a sign of wrought iron. Also what size are the "wires" in the cable. Because I would "guess" that wrought iron the wires will be large, say at least 1/8 inch while with steel I would expect them to to much smaller, say 1/32 or 1/64 approx.
Do the turn buckles look like they are hand forged? This does not mean that they would show hammer marks -- but rather a lack of a parting line as if they were forged in a die. Hand forged most likely means older -- but of course there was still a lot of hand forging being done until the early 1900's.
Would love to see some pictures of the cable and the turn buckles.
Dave
that was some great pointers at least for me thanks dave
Dave,
Next time I'm over there I WILL take some photos to post....You are defffffffinatly da man!!! I'm guessing you do blacksmith work...if so.I just may need your services in a cpl a months
BE well homes
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy:
Understand your unstated concern--that the steel cables have corroded to the point that the structural integrity of the house is now threatened. As Kevlar has a greater tensile strength than steel, may I suggest wrapping the house in Kevlar (1/4" O.D. should do at 6" O.C.), and then removing the cables? Could then reside using plexiglass, so others could marvel at your "high tech" fix...
Regards,
Rework
Hey Rework,
Good flash......if I thought the cables were corroding.... but theyre fine and it was only used to make sure the house stayed put when they ripped the roof off to raise it. Sure seemed like a lot of work to raise the roof only about a foot but I reckon this house was built for those that love working on houses...
Thanks for the invisible house idea though
BE well
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM