The architect on my current addition has spec’d out 3x sill plate. How do I frame the walls. Is it expected that I will toe nail the studs??
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I guess your talking about a sill on a slab. What's wrong with toenialing?
Sill on slab. Nothing wrong with toenailing ... just used to nailing through from the bottom on a 2x sill. I've never framed with 3x plates.
What framer said. If you have never done it it isn't difficult or slow.
One other possibility is talk to the archy and ask if you can frame a wall with a bottom plate and then stand it and nail it to the 3x plate. My guess is the 3x plate is for shear so he would need to review the separate plate suggestion.
Archy just left on vacation for two weeks. Besides why let him know of my inexperience if I can come to y'all first!.
Edited 7/23/2008 12:25 am ET by badarse
If'n I talk to y'all first I can go to the archy actin like I know what I'm doin.
I've never seen a 3x sill. If you do talk to him and you have to use it, happy toenailing.
Joe Carola
California, ya know. I believe they're normally used on shear walls with really tight nailing patterns, like 2 and 12, so you don't split the plate. I get the feeling that this guy really dosen't know that much cuz he over specs everyting....
As the OP said, pretty common for shear walls in seismic or high wind areas on the west cost. I have only seen a few in residential construction but they are very common in commercial. Shear nailing and bolt patterns are so close that a double plate won't take all the loads or nails required.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
We learn something new everyday.
Ask if you can use a double bottom plate. Typical on garages. Bolt down the first plate, build the wall, lift, spike them together. Pretty tough to sheathe and paper the wall before lifting with no bottom plate. Even if he insisted on a solid 3" sill plate, I'd still build the wall with a bottom plate and spike it to the 3". Unless, of course, they were willing to pay a very tidy extra sum for my trouble and aggravation. Toe nail? you've got to be kiddin!
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Is it possible that he specified three sill plates? I was on one project where that was done. Perhaps it is less expensive if you want more height in the basement and don't want to pay for special forms.
Is the 3x sill plate consistent through out the project or just in a couple of walls? This is a common occurrence in our area for a shear wall here and there but not a whole floor. Your anchor bolt spacing should be closer together and you may need 3x at the panel edges also. Studs get toenailed to 3x sill plate. Is your architect an engineer also? It's usually the engineer that upsizes the plate for shear values. It is also not uncommon to have to use a 0.148 gauge nail instead of the 0.131. The sill on the slab should be PT lumber and you'll need to use galvanized or s/s nails at that point.
Edited 7/23/2008 11:29 pm ET by harryvermehren
3x sill plates are real common in Sunny SoCal, a true seismic wonderland. Normally we just toenail the studs to the plate. Once in a great while, longer nails are spec'ed out and we bust out the palm nailers. The 3x plate is used on shear walls where the nailing schedule is tight, on our commercial projects it is not unusual to have the framing plate called out as 3x as well. If you want to really impress your co-workers, Bostitch makes a nailer that shoots up to a 5 inch nail. But that may be a little over the top.
This guy is not a certified arcitect he's a "designer". He over spec'd a bunch o' stuff . I'm thinking he did this so the city would pass the plans without engineering. It is a single room addition without an special nailing pattern just t 1-11 @ 6" and 12" . There is one 4' section called out as a "brace wall" that actually cuts trough the old exterior wall into the existing house. It's all quite silly really. There are only three walls so toe nailing will not be that big'O deal. I just wanted to hear what y'all had to say? I find a lot of helpful input in these discussions. Thanks
You'll have to forgive my ignorance as I only read for the most part here, but could you nail down the bottom two, buid the wall like you normally would, then prop the wall up on the bottom two sill plates. Seems like it would save you from having to toe nail the studs.
You'll have to forgive my ignorance as I only read for the most part here, but could you nail down the bottom two, buid the wall like you normally would, then prop the wall up on the bottom two sill plates. Seems like it would save you from having to toe nail the studs.
What is the big deal with toenailing studs? Very simple and is done every day.All he has to do is bolt the one 3x sill down, frame the walls, stand them up and toenail the studs and he's done. What is the brain teaser?
Joe Carola
He's talking about a 3X4 bottom plate, I think - Not a set of 3 2X4 bottom plates.Unless I'm way off base.....
If you drink don't park - Accidents cause people.
Woops....going back to just reading.
You can toenail or you can still end nail. From the 2007 CBC:
Where a single 3- inch (76 mm) nominal sill plate is used, 2- 20d box end nails shall be substituted for 2-16d common end nails found in line 8 of Table 2304.9.1.