What size motor ya’ got on that thing? 6 gauge sounds big… I’ve got 12/2 UF going to my well.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
This time-tested installation method for flangeless windows ensures smooth operation and provides air, water, and vapor control.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
Conduit and wires would be better, cuz you could pull different size wires later if you needed to upgrade the service. Just be sure to lay a big enough conduit. The difference in pipe cost is cheap, compared to the cost to trench and install it.
I would guess that $700 would be a fair price to pay to eliminate the generator, considering the cost to run the generator, plus the hassel to refuel it, and maintenance, etc.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
According to the Voltage Drop Calculator at http://elec-toolbox.com, 6ga at 500' will give you 120V/5A or 240V/10A with 3% voltage drop. The NEC will be more restrictive.
What are the specs (start/run) on your motor nameplate?
Edit: Just a guess, but that sounds low for 120V and high for 240V.
SamT
Edited 8/28/2004 10:30 am ET by SamT
Run the pvc conduite. Be sure to install pull boxes at 100, 200, 300, and 400', unless you have a 200' fish tape. Pull in a pull string and then the wire. Use wire lube on the wire as one person feeds it in and the other pulls it through. Make up a wire spool from a piece of 3/4 rigid or black iron pipe setting on a couple of saw horses between nailas on each side. The wire will feed and pull a lot easier.
If you have an electrician pull in the wire, ask if they want pull boxes. They may blow a mouse through the conduite with the pull string attached.
500' of trench around here would cost about $400.00 to $500.00 for 7 to 8 hrs backhoe work 30" deep x 16" wide. We have heavey clay soil with intermitent layers of rock. If you can rent a ditchwhitch and trench it yourself, you are looking at about $180.00 rental for 8 hrs. The trench can be shallow (18") unless you are crossing a driveway, where it should go to 24", I think.
Be carefull if you decide to thread the pull string through as you lay the pipe. The cleaner solvent and glue can glue the sting to the inside of the pipe if you pull through a joint to soon.
Dave
I never tried anything long, but I use a shop vac and sandwich bag "mouse" to put twine through 75ft and it got there so fast I though I screwed up and the thing came loose or got stopped up.
Wasn't until I disconnected the shop vac and saw the twine at my end that I realized that it worked.
Wish this thread had started last Sunday!
I just put in 180' of 2 1/2" pvc conduite for the service to my shop. Not being creative enough to think of a sandwich bag, I used a fish tape for the first 90', and then threaded the other 90' with a piece of vinyl J chanel. Utility inspected Tuesday, electrical inspector forgot me Wed., but passed me Friday. Should get the service wire in Mon. or Tues. of next week.
Was a frantic Wed morning. Had the plumbing inspector coming for the final, and had to get both ends of the 280' of water line hooked up. Electric inspector was also coming and I had to make six covers for some freebie 4' fixtures. To make matters a little tighter, I had to drive 65 mi round trip to get my brake back from a friend on the south side of Louisville. Got it all done by 10:00 am.
Pant, pant, pant!
Heat index has been at or over 100 all week.
Dave
where is "out here", no info in your profile.
If Pac NW, can lead you to places to get the wire for less than 1/4 the big box price.
Have you considered a HV xfmer at each end, switch the primary of the first xfmr, lots smaller wire, some cheap pole pegs have been seen on ebay, etc,
Of you have low rock in your soil, you could also just plow in a wire with a truck winch - let us know what type equipment you have available without a $500 rental bill. .
I don't recommend laying the wire and sliding the conduit on it.
You are going to get cleaning solvent and glue on the wire insulation at each joint, risking damage. Remember, you are pullimg in three wires. Weakening the insulation between those wire can become "enlightening". A Hot to hot or hot to nuetral/ground fault through a pin hole or weak spot in the insulation can produce a pretty nasty arc. Breakers trip, fusses blow, conduite (pvc) melts, and you have to dig it up and pull in new wire. Not worth it to save $15.00 for a bucket of pull string and some time/labor to pull in the wire.
If you don't have a fish tape, see my post above to Bill, about how I threaded pull string through 90' of conduite. A 12' piece of vinyl j channel cost about $4.00, and makes a good needle. Just be sure to hold it back far enough in the first piece of pipe to keep the string out of the glue joint untill it is set (3-4 min. or less if it is really hot outside).
You can use the pull string to pull a larger line (1/4 - 3/8" rope) through and then pull the wire bundle with it.
For #6 wire strip about 10 - 12" off the first wire. Split the wires in half bundles and form opposeing loops about 4" tall. Take the remaining wire on the each loop and wrap it in opposite directions around the base of your now completed eye. The next piece of wire is stripped about 8" and another loop formed into the base of the the first eye, followed by the third wire in a similar tie. This will stagger the wire ends back from one another so you have a tapperd pulling head. Tie the pull rope to the first loop and tape the whole thing with several wrapps of electric tape, being sure to go both ways, up the rope and down the wire past the loops.
500' is a long pull without a mechanical assist. Even with just three #6 wires and oversized pipe, it can be a ball buster with changes in elevation and less than straight runs. That is why I suggested putting in pill boxes every 100'. They may add $50.00 to the cost of the project, but you will stand a better chance of not getting hung up and breaking the rope,and your back.
Be sure to bury the pipe between each pull box, or you will lift it out of the trench as you pull in the wire, possible breaking a few joints.
Maybe 4Lorn1, CAP, or IBEWBarry, will jump in here and give you some alternative/better advice. They are electricians with a lot more experience than this old converted carpenter.
Dave
"Seattle area" - go down to Boeing surplus in Kent (just off HWy 169 212ths st exit) for your 6 AWG wire if you don't need the wire immediately. Note: this is not available everyday like the big box, you may have to watch for it for a few weeks. Also, you could check with Graybar in seattle for their 'everyday' prices, but you would need a WA state resale certificate.
Bought about a 1000 ft of THHN 6 awg a few weeks back at Boeing surplus for $1.25 a pound ($1/# if you have a Boeing employee along with you), buy all my wire there except romex. A month or so ago saw a 1000 ft spool of 1-1/4 flex plastic conduit on a 6 ft spool for <$50, this was neat stuff in that there was a 1/4 inch rope pre-installed - yu can buy that type thing new also, but $$$$.
HV xfmr is a high voltage transformer, but you should know what you are doing before you go to a 480 Vac or higher voltage link.
I'm in Renton, so know the soil type well. Neighbor dug a 600 foot trench 3 ft deep in about 5 hours with the small witch, the type you just sit on.
The pillbox is also called a pullbox or a handhole, it's basically a big junction box set flush in the ground. Lots of places sell them, one big brand is Quazite.
What's the horsepower of your well pump? Is it a submersible? If it is, how deep is it in the well? These things would be good to know to make sure #6 wire is the right size.
Sam T posted a link to a voltage drop calculator early in this thread that you can double check, but it sounds like #6 will do the trick for you.
Can't type. Should have been pull boxes, or for that matter pulling Cs.
A box for an underground pull comes in assorted sizes 6x6, 8x8, etc. Ac pulling C is a condulet body like an LB,LR, or LL only has no 90 on it. It is a straight body not much widere or thicker than the conduit. easier to use than a box b/c it has glue fitting on both ends. No box connectors required, just glue and go on to the next section. Be sure to get them facing up, and make sure you get the gaskets with the covers. You will find them in the same isle as the conduit in the big box stores.
Buy a small tub of wire lube if you pull it in in one shot. The stuff is messy, but slick, and makes the pull a lot easier.
Vinyl J channel, you will find in the siding section. Comes 12' long, so you can keep a foot of it in the pipe behind you, and have a foot sticking out of the pipe you slide over it and glue up. Neither the solvent cleaner or glue had any effect on the piece I used.
Dave
I don't think you would have much trouble sucking a string 500' with a good shop vac.We use a poly string that comes in a bucket and jumps into the pipe when you get the right size "mouse".They make foam mice with a metal hook to tie the string to,but I actually like to make my own.The sandwich bag trick works,you just tie the string in a tight knot around the corner of the baggy and cut off the excess string,less weight on the mouse is better.Then fold the baggy back over itself to make a parachute shape that covers just a little more than the diameter of the pipe.If it doesn't make it quite all the way you can shove a snake in from the other end ,twist it round and round to snag the mouse/string and pull it out.PVC runs are air tight so they usually suck in pretty well.On the Sam's Club that we just finished we cut plastic pop bottles into cones that blew through EMT feeders,even with the leaks in the couplings.
Just make sure you get the string in before you backfill the ditch.
On one big remodel, we stuck 1 or 2 liter soda bottles over the fish tape to push down thru existing cable trays. Tied the string to the neck and taped the bottle to the tape.
The string always stayed on top of the previous cables.
SamT
all you need is the tax number
PS: checked in one of the back sheds today and have about 200 ft of 1-1/4 pvc conduit in 10 ft lengths I don't need, you have it for 5 cents a foot (what I paid for it) if you want.
BTW, Boeing surplus is now open only Wed, Fri and Sat, 10-5. Wire prices have not increased in years, but lots of the other stuff has gone up a factor of 5 in the last few years as 'entenprenuers' started reselling on ebay, etc.