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Ken,
First off sorry I forgot to sign my previous post. I have since rectified the situation on that thread.
I have often recommended FHB to my co workers, and I have gotten alot of help from the magazine and this forum. Many in the architectural field are unaware of FHB, and frankly many don’t care. Too many architects are convinced they can’t learn anything from builders, and vice versa. I bet there are at least some architects out here lurking on this board, but they may be unwilling to open themselves up to the typical Contractor vs. Architect abuse (and it comes from both sides).
This past week everything seems to be calming down so hopefully, as long as no one discusses venting, some other architects will enter the discussions on the board. I think we can learn from each other, I know I have learned something from most every contractor I have worked with, and hopefully I made their job easier, not harder.
Chris
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Ken,
First off sorry I forgot to sign my previous post. I have since rectified the situation on that thread.
I have often recommended FHB to my co workers, and I have gotten alot of help from the magazine and this forum. Many in the architectural field are unaware of FHB, and frankly many don't care. Too many architects are convinced they can't learn anything from builders, and vice versa. I bet there are at least some architects out here lurking on this board, but they may be unwilling to open themselves up to the typical Contractor vs. Architect abuse (and it comes from both sides).
This past week everything seems to be calming down so hopefully, as long as no one discusses venting, some other architects will enter the discussions on the board. I think we can learn from each other, I know I have learned something from most every contractor I have worked with, and hopefully I made their job easier, not harder.
Chris
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I hope you don't find this question mean spirited ....do you think most architects know how to build? Being on jobsites (residential mostly), watching what's going on, leaves me doubtful. Older architects (50 +) that I have observed, seem well versed in building while younger ones seem lacking. Also, I am curious ...... why is the A.I.A advertising on t.v.? .....hoping to be an architect someday ...jc
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If I had a dime for every carpenter that I heard wistfully say he was thinking of architecture school, and every architect going on about wanting to swing a hammer...well, I'd have a bunch of dimes. I would like to hear from more architects, if they can stand the heat. and if they want to flame back, good on 'em.
*Hey Adrian, did I hear you say you build cabinets? Have you used those new under the drawer, full extension drawer slides from Mepla yet? Can you tell me how to e mail someone here at FHB.com? Thanks
*I understand that not long ago a guy who was in the field for 10 years could become and architect, no degree. I'm sure it was more than being in the field, but it was I guess like a lawyers apprentiship was 100 years ago. No disparagment to younger architects, but that may be what j.callahan was refering to. The only reason I wish I had gone to architecture school is the more I learn in the field the less I feel I know and I really like this stuff and want to learn more. I guess that is what learning does, it doesn't teach you all you need to know, it just gets you started and hopefully gives you the right tools to learn more.Sorry for going touchy feely, especially about architecture. Hey, Studio7, where is that baited hook you through out a few days ago. I started on it, but didn't have the time to go into detail and then it was gone. Go fishing again, there are plenty of us hot heads to take the bait.
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JD,
Check under the heading for help using, tips for improving. The thread got moved, but then degenerated to a discusion on the finer micro brews. Maybe we can rejuvinate it with a discussion of which is the better burbon- Jack Daniel's, or Maker's Mark?
Chris
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Maker's Mark by far!
Dan
*sorry, Young bob, only just noticed your post.I recently used one set of Blum Tandem slides, which may be similar, but I modfied it to use under a garbage can tray, not as it was meant to be used. I don't use Mepla at present, just out of habit and no local suppliers. the Blum version is a little complicated, and you have to adopt a new way of drawer building to use them, but they sem very well made and more people will probably start asking for them. Completely hidden slides and dovetailed drawer boxes will probably be the high end norm, I would say. I am ashamed to say I am behind the times on this, and will have to look into it more. At present I mostly use Accuride full ext., and Blum 3/4, but I just brought in some Knape & Vogt to try. not very helpful, i'm afraid. if you mean how do you e-mail someone on this forum, just click on their blue name, their address should come up.
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JD, you're on the mark. Looked at architecture schools ..... very little on the actual substance of building ......the assistant dean told me they deal in shape, light, and form ......seems to me if you want to convert drawings into reality, you need to know about building. Most older architects I've met have worked in the trades at one point in their lives ......am in a state technical college (technical graphics and design) and it seems a lot more real world oriented.
*jc,Your question is not mean-spirited, but is an honest reflection of the problems with architectural education these days. The course work is heavy into design, at the expense of actual construction knowledge. The premise is that in architecture school it is your only time to design uninhibited or unencumbered by real world concerns. A large number of my professors had never practiced architecture in a real firm, and some had never built a building. The idea is you will learn from the firm you work with after graduation. I worked for a design/build construction firm for 5 years after college, so I learned pretty quick how valuable a good superintendent can be. There have been some discussions regarding how to better educate architects, some in the industry believe the current process must be changed. Maybe some day it will change.I don't know why the AIA is advertising, I never joined because I couldn't see a benefit for my dues money. If you do end up going to architecture school check out a number of colleges. There are some schools that do a better job of teaching real world skills, but they tend to be lesser known. I tried to pick a school that was balanced between design and construction, it was a well known architecture school, but it was probably light in construction expertise.Good Luck,cw
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A number of years ago, I built a rather complicated house for a young graduate architect, who had designed it for his parents.
I tend to work solo, except on large projects like this, so I hired a young guy to frame with me, who also happened to be a 'graduate architect' from the U.S. who was visiting his relatives, and at loose ends for the summer. . . it was a most enjoyable experience all around. . . the "designer" gladly deferred to me on matters of framing, accepted many ideas for changes in window placements as the framing took shape and enhanced lighting possibilites became evident, incorporated suggestions for exterior finishing materials, and took other suggestions, reworked them to his taste and tossed them back to me (thank you Fax technology). . . all the while the assistant "framer" was learning an enormous amount about structure, and 'real' design, and while arguing with me daily about practically everything, having a very useful and (so he says) enjoyable experience.
You'll have to take my word for it when I say the place is worthy of the pages of FHb, with it's soaring beam and T&G cathedral ceilings and light tower& multiple roof lines, custom built-ins, maple strip flooring, totally weird footprint, window walls etc., It was a fulfilling experience for all of us, and it doesn't hurt that the parents love it too.
I've been part of several fractious projects with more experienced architects (owner vs. arch.)and would observe that raging egos were the root of these disputes!
-Patrick
*Patrick,It seems to me that student architects would jump at the chance to work on real projects.I really think it should be manditory.Many builders, myself included,need the extra help and wouldn't mind sharing the learning experince.The only thing I can't decide is who pays who? Vince
*When I did my office building, I hired registered architect and I was the builder. While I hated to spend the money, I re-did nothing in materials, only on paper. Where necessary, he hired a civil engineer for the structure and nothing sags, and no cracks - even in the front entrance which faces north. It is possible for a reasonable intelligent to learn everything and if he has a good memory tobe a know-it-all. It is just difficult to live long enough to do it all as well.Dennis
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...... think builders should have a little architecture under their belt,too.
*Chris, any recommendations? Have checked out University of Houston and am going to check out Boston Architectual Center this summer. Thanks jc
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Two things, 1) to show how complicated this can become, I have fallen in love with light(j.callhan mentioned it). You really can spend a life time lighting objects, rooms, outside, etc.
2) I would hire architecture students in a second and think it would be good for them even if I did nothing other than fix things for a semester. I don't know much, but I bet it would be their best semester ever. I mean I read all kinds of stuff on the outside just to know whats going on.
Most of the Arch. problem is in ego on both sides(more theirs).
I'm a micro brew guy myself, although I got my wife and myself a "single vineyard" Chardonney for tonight. She broke my spirit and I drink more wine than anything else.
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I've thought for a long time that architecture students should be required to have real-world experience to get a degree and/or license. At least one summer on a framing crew for starters, to see how things really get built.
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I've never really had to work too much with architects.
Usually, the achitects are much more knowledgable about overall building, but lack skill in particular trades. That is to be expected.
They have a difficult task, matching clients desires, with praticality, and buildability. Everyone wants a Taj Majhal, and all trades want a square box.
One of the most important, and thourough carpentry book that I read, wasn't a carpentry book at all! IT WAS A BASIC COLLEGE ARCHITECTUAL BOOK!
Most carpenters are hands on types, not very good at writing. Some of the carpentry books I've latched on to are darn right funny! The architectual book was professional, concise, and thourough.
Blue
*I think the true value of good architecture is that it somehow uplifts us - pleases us - in the same sense that a song can, or a sculpture, or the grace of an animal or athelete. We pass by hundreds (at least) of buildings each day. If they are inconsequential, so too, is our reaction to them. But if one or two are "right" we notice it. And not just builders, virtually everyone sees beauty and it somehow heightens our existence, if only for a moment.This is why, I humbly submit, good artchitechture might be a gift. Like music, or athleticism. A student could learn about this gift, appreciate it, emulate it, but you can't have it just because you want it, or no matter how deserving you are. Anymore than you can become a world class athelete or musician. And so I say that the schools that teach relationships between form and light and stuff that might seem esoteric to me, might be as close as those of us without the gift can come to gaining an understanding it. A hell of a lot of words, but I hold good architecture in the highest esteem, it can uplift all of us, every day. What else can do that?
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I certainly would welcome the Architectual Community into this forum. Granted, there would be a little "flaming" in the beginning, but with a little time, we could, with open minds, find some common ground for positive discussion.
So, studio7, whoever you are, would you inform your piers, that we would like to enjoin you into our forum?
It won't always be pretty, but in the long run, this forum gives us a unique opportunity for a very heathly exchange of thoughts.