Should I prime my newly installed drywall before texturing?
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
The best tool for straight, splinter-free cuts is made even better without a cord.
Featured Video
How to Install Cable Rail Around Wood-Post CornersHighlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
You mean what is the best way to texture your drywall?
is it best to prime the drywall before i shoot texture or prime after texturing ?
shoot it
thanks
no problem, lol.
I have always shot texture onto "raw" drywall and have never had any problems. But I recently have read in several places that that is incorrect. I guess the reason to prime first is that the drywall can suck-up too much moisture and sag. like I said, I have never had any problems doing it "incorrectly". Check out Myron Fergenson's book on drywall
Will it help to read the book to answer this post?
Detail issues and I will help you write a book.
We don't know where he is, the construction, the texture, the job conditions, new/old add on, etc.
If you want good answers, ask good questions.
This site is only worth what you put into it. He gave zip and got his money's worth.
You'll get a better job priming it first. I have seen joints telegraph through texture.
You prime wrong and your texture is on the floor.
next?
That may be true. I have never had that experience though. What would be an example of priming wrong?
I never have either, but most of these things happen when we are long gone, or dead.
Ok, Zippy paint store boy sells you a primer sealer? Your tex has no chance to bond.
So far we are talking generic conditions, add the site has issues.
Add the perfect homeowner is now going to wet coat a paint system on that. A pro will get by on a dare, but if you play with it the ceiling is coming off.
Yeah, that's a problem discussing this with nothing pinned down. In this area maybe it's a fad or my limited experience, but it has been a long, long time since we have done any texturing (except matching old texture on remodels). People we have been working for like the slick finish.
I have had the experience of texturing an unprimed ceiling with Radex medium and seeing the joints "ghost" through in certain light. That was a long time ago, but not long enough.
I have since been around some really good painters that have really emphasized the value of primer. We use a lot of "First Coat". It drys fast, doesn't smell too bad, and is pretty inexpensive.
And now we have details...
Fonzie,
You got it. You prime first to "equalize porosity." I wouldn't want to explain that, but I know what it means. Joints flashing!
Don
please, what textures are you using? Isolate the texture and conditions that cause a problem, and why they cause a probem.
USG Tuf-Tex. I'm primarily a plasterer, but I have also drywalled for almost 30 years. I think I know what I'm talking about. Not much more to say.
Don
Shutter- Your profile said today is your first day of posting. If so, Welcome to Breaktime.
It's a lot easier for someone to give a response to a question if you put in a lot of details surrounding the subject of your question. Why prime? Oil? Acrylic? Top coats? Color? Type of texture? commercial or residential? etc. That type of background data helps the reader distinguish the question from the wide arena of possible answers.
Glad you're here.
...sitting in his nowhereland.
Thanks for the reply it is appreciated, I'm new to this and remodeling. I have been hanging new drywall in my basement and was wondering what the proper way in shooting texture on new drywall is I was just wondering thanks again.
You can see from the variety of replies that there are a great number of variables.
It is almost as if you asked the question, "How much water should I add to my MUD mix"
Are you laying brick
or parge coating a wall
is the sand already damp?
or is the mud you are refering to a drywall mud?
and are you using it for this that or the other thing?
And did it come from a bucket, premiked
or was it dri-mix setting type compound?
So, What kind of texture are you shooting
What kind of equipment and experience do you have
or are you planning to prime the job and then hire it textured?
Personally, I like smooth finish. Frrom most of what I have seen, texturing is used to cover up the sins of poor finishing work and to provide a faster job. No-one I have ever known ever really cared about the quality of the job when they were getting or doing a texture (assuming you are talking about ceilings) Many jobs involved mixing primer with texture and shooting it on and never doing a paint job.
So here you are asking about how to do a good job of what I've never heard described as a good job.
That may explain why Qtrmeg was pulling your leg.
.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Sorry for being a newbee here and at doing a little remodeling on my own but it is this kind of feedback from supposed professionals that really ruins it for myself and possibly others on this site. It was a pretty simple ? I thought, but my bad. Thanks for all of your replys good or bad, I will go ask a local professional that will hopefully give me a straight answer or atleast he or she wont be a jokester. Im not slamming you piffin it is all the others, this site was referred to me by a friend that herd that you would get a straight answer to whatever your ? is.
Shutter,
Personally I can't believe it took 21 messages to get this said. Look at Georgia Pacifics, USG's, Nationals and Lafarge's web site. Prime before texturing.
Don
No offense taken.
don is a rocker and plasterer so maybe you've got your answer
It's just that so many people ask questions sometimes like they ask the psychic network, and it can take real work to get the information needed to give a professional answer. Since the pros are here for their own fun and enjoyment as well as free service and advice, you just fell into the caricature. Stick around and get a little enterteinment out of the experience, and have fun learning. Even rez is the court jester, in addition to being a one man welcoming committee..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Damn man, I lost my sceptre again. Let me see, first I was there, then there, then here, and I laid it down, then went ......sitting in his nowhereland.
Let me apologize for some of the others lack of control, and say that most of us hope that you will not give up on Breaktime that quickly!! I will admit that it can be a little combative around here, but there is lots of good information mixed with the fun and frivolity. As some of the posters have said before, don't get mad , get even!! Stick around, it can be a lot of fun.
Dan
As a professional that takes great pride in my work and my workmanship, I think some of you are just plain ignorant of drywall and texture techniques, and the reasons behind those techniques. You do a great disservice to those who are asking for help.
The reason I do not prime the bare drywall before I apply texture is the fact that I will have to prime AFTER I texture. Why on earth would I want to prime twice? As for USG, and the other drywall manufacturer's website telling you to prime first, well you need to understand marketing and sales. They are the makers of the primer/sealer that they are recommending, and they want you to use as much of it as possible.
The reason behind the recommended PVA primer/sealer in the first place is to seal the surfaces of the bare drywall, and the drywall mud/finish texture. These two very different surfaces have two very different porosities, and each absorbs paint at a much different level. THIS (and bad finishing work) is why you get telegraphing, and why areas that have drywall mud on them look different than the rest of the wall/ceiling area. To prevent this problem, use a PVA primer/sealer (or equivelent) over the drywall mud/texture and the bare drywall surfaces. This type of primer/sealer will equalize the two surfaces, and create a single surface porosity that will absorb paint equally. I personally use two coats of PVA primer, and two coats of paint. Not once have I ever had a joint telegraph or had a paint surface that showed tell tale signs of drywall mud/texture bleeding through.
In my region, we do not do smooth walls or ceilings. We do textured finishes. Period. Because of this fact, the tradesmen in my area have developed techniques and styles that they take great pride in. We do not do the el cheapo, butt ugly "spray on" texture that so many of you speak of. No wonder you guys hate texture so much! We hate that blown on stuff too!
Here, the drywall finishers have passed down their techniques and creativity to their heir apparents in their fields, and I have seen some pretty amazing finish techniques and patterns.
Just a thought...James DuHamel
"The Power Zone" http://www.thepowerzone.org
Well James, I disagree with your methods and the thought that I'm doing anyone a disservice. I've seen perfectly good joints flash from not priming. Now I would tend to agree with you if contractors got out of the habit of using PVA's, but that's not going to happen because they're not going to spend $85 for a good 100% acrylic primer and get away from $35 First Coat or New Construction Primer. Here's the house I was sent to LA to plaster in the week before last. Believe me, nothing is less then first class work. The work isn't done until it's absolutely right.
Don
Oops!
Don C. wasn't that house featured in Walls & Ceilings magazine last month? Lots of plaster, can't remember the name of the company doing it.
I though, why spend all that money to build a house 100 yards from the neighbor? Notice all the other McMansions in the background. Bigger and bigger, butt up against each other. Joe H
Yep, that is the house. Ofer from Texston was contracted to do the job, and I teach decortive plastering for Texston. Great proucts everyone should look into! haha shameless plug there.
Those houses are not on top of each other. Actually amazing there is that much space available in the LA area. I'm not going to name drop, but I guarantee everyone would recognize the names of his neighbors.
Don
Read my first paragraph again. Notice the word in blue - some
You seem to have some snap, and some sense. A lot of responses on questions like these come from people who ain't got a clue, but heard from a friend who heard from a friend that a certain way was right. These people are careless, and really don't have a clue. It shows in their answers. Problem is, if no one but those guys answer, how is the original poster supposed to know that the info is garbage? I've been around here for 5 or 6 years, and I have read some really terrible info being posted. Ain't nothing changed but the names of the posters. On the flip side, I have read some really terrific information, and learned a great deal. What makes this site so great is the diversity of the trades and people posting, and the diverse methods and techniques of doing things. When you understand that you can get the same results from many different methods, learning becomes much more interesting. I have never had much use for someone who tells me repeatedly that there is only one way of doing something correctly. That just shows their shallow thinking, and their lack of knowledge and understanding. People like that don't learn. They badger. They believe that they are right, and anyone who doesn't agree with them is an idiot. Me, I come here to learn. And I do learn something new everytime I come here.
Never assume I was talking directly to you. I promise, if I am ever talking directly to someone, I will tell them so. I was generalizing more than anything.
Personally, I have never seen an $85 primer. I would not even consider paying $35 for primer either. I use Zinsser brand Bullseye 1-2-3 mostly, but will venture out when a specific primer is called for. PVA primer is a necessity in some cases, but not always. And I still can't understand priming twice (before texture, then again after). Any way you go, the bare drywall mud must be primed and sealed before a top coat is applied.
Now plaster... I don't know anything about. We don't have plaster here, nor does anyone do plaster work.
Now, enough of my soapbox...
Merry Christmas Don!
James DuHamel
"The Power Zone" http://www.thepowerzone.org
James,
Well said and fair enough. The primer I was referring to is fivers, not gallons. I'm not even sure you can get USG's First Coat in gallons? I wouldn't say you can't, just that I've never seen it.
And the same, Merry Christmas.
Don
Hi, James-
Jim Blodgett is a friend of mine up here in Olympia (Yelm), in fact we first became aquainted on Breaktime. I also posted some time ago on a thread concerning the # of cats some of us have (18 here). I hear you're a cat guy.
Anyhoo, I really appreciate your comments regarding those who are convinced of one way (or their way) of doing things. I, too, get so very tired of that mindset, especially with some of the carpenters I work with. If I wasn't learning all the time in this trade, I wouldn't be in it! It is truly what makes it fun, exciting, rewarding, and challenging- at least for me, anyways. There are always more than one way to acheive the desired results- and the end results are certainly what is most important, not how you get there.
To all- appreciate the discussion. Always learning- that's why I'm here.
Happy Holidays!
Ken Hill
I'm not intending to argue or create a discussion for that matter, and I do believe in learning new things as much and as often as I can, but IMHO the customers home or business is not the place to experiment. And then again, I'm of the opinion some things are just SOP without much new to learn. If I see a framer holding his hammer in a choked position, I will suggest not to swing it that way. If I see a framer holding a hammer properly, I don't suggest that heshe try choking up to see how it feels. Some things just aren't safe or efficeint. I've known a lot of people who want to say, "this is how I do it, and it works for me," but it doesn't work for me because I'm not paying them 2/3 the wage I'm paying others doing 1/3 more work. The "learn new things" idea needs to be corraled in balance and perspective of getting the job done.
Don
Hi, Don-
Thanks for your comments, which I agree with you 100%. Going with what we know that works is indeed important to getting the job done efficiently and with predictable and desired results.
Ken Hill
Edited 12/24/2002 12:48:29 PM ET by Ken Hill
I agree. Anytime you stop listening in this business you are in trouble. I am glad for somebody to tell me I am doing it wrong and what's a better way. I love it!
Fonzie-
I'm with ya on this, in fact I EXPECT constructive criticism of my work. I love it, too!
Ken Hill
Has anyone had success mixing latex primer or paint with the popcorn spray texture and appling over unfinished drywall? Has this kept the mudded areas from appearing whiter than the rest of the drywall?
I mentioned it earlier a SOP in some places with a fairly good result. I'm no fan of textures though. IMO they all suck..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
What? You've never used $85 primer? Bet you have (or something similar). Here's the scenario...you decide to try that new product you heard the guys talking about...suppose it's a different wall primer...your gut tells you to use the old tried & true, but curiosity is calling...so you use the new stuff...and it really screws up the wall...so you have to redo a lot of work, then apply a special sealer to keep it from bleeding through...two coats maybe... then put on the stuff you should have used the first time...and when it's all over...ba-bing!...kiss the profit goodbye on that job.
Let me reiterate the 85 dollar primer for any who missed the point. I don't know any contractors that buy primer by the gallon. We buy it in 5 gallon buckets. By the gallon, that would be a 17 dollar primer.
Elcid, I realize that is not the point you were making. I just want to make sure people aren't considering some 85 dollar a gallon paint as a primer.
Don
A different texturing question:
I'm working on a tiny (800 sq ft) 2-bdrm house built in 1948 in Seattle. When finished, it'll be a rental. The walls are finished in a way I've never seen before. First of all, the ceiling height is 7'6" throughout. The walls are 1/2" gypsum board, 4ft-wide sheets, hung vertically. The bevel on the long sides is deeper than on modern wallboard and the facing is a shiny, waxy brown paper (one of the closets was never finished). Where ceilings meet walls and where corners meet, the intersections are covered with 2" splintery wood coving (cedar, I think). The coving and joints are taped with a stong fabric tape. Then, everything (ceilings, walls, wood coving) is covered with an original, textured finish (actually, two different textures) about 1/16th of an inch thick.
Some of the plaster texture has deteriorated--in some places its very sandy/crumbly; in others, it's fallen off in patches. There's wallpaper (that I've scaped off) on some walls and a chalky (purple) paint finish on others.
I had intended to try to repair the walls, using drywall mud to skimcoat the patches and trying to replicate the texture to the best of my ability. I'd also considered buying one of those hopper things to hook up to my paint sprayer and then re-texturing the entire house. Would either of these methods worked over the old walls?
The question is academic because I ended up tearing out all the old gysum so I could insulate behind, and also because I want to refurbish the wiring. I will replace everything with new wallboard. However, I'd really like to know more about the original finish--how, why, and where it was used--and whether my idea to repair it (as a fairly handy amateur) would have worked.
Sorry, but off hand I can't think of anything I've ever seen similar to what you have described. When you say four feet wide, I'm assuming you also mean ceiling height lenght. Sounds like it may have been one of the early rock laths, but I've never seen it in full sheets like you apparantly have. It's a new one to me, but then again, a lot of post WWII building supplies were regional due to the boom of the times.
Off hand, I don't see why your texturing methods wouldn't have worked as long as you could match the texture with mud. Some of the textures like spanish lace would be difficult, if at all possible with joint compound.
Don
Thanks, Don.
Yeah, it's weird stuff, the coving especially. Some of the texture was a kind of spatter on and knock down; the other was apparently done with a brush--sweeping half circles. Also, it had a lot of sand in it. Well, it's all gone to the dump now. Here in Seattle, even tenants are becoming concerned about stuff like insulation, now that heating bills have risen so dramatically (about 50 percent in the past year, gas and electricity).
Happy New Year!
John
Now that the autopsy is complete...what did you find for insulation? Vapor barrier or anything? Curious to hear how the building was constructed.
With regard to the spray texture guns, they work well, with some limitations. For a house that size, they would probably be sufficient. The question is more of can you apply the type of texture that you want? I have found that they are primarily used for orange peel or spatter texture, with a couple of different sizes of 'lumps' available dpending on the nozzel settings, viscosity, and technique.
Well, it's about the cheapest construction I've ever seen, but then it's held up for 50 years, so I guess it can't be too bad. Stick-framed, exterior walls 2X4s, interior walls 2X3s (first time I've seen that around here, though I notice HD has hemlock 2X3s in stock), floor joists 2X8s on posts and beams with concrete perimeter foundation. Walls clad with shiplap, with shingles over that and a layer of vinyl added more recently. No insulation whatsoever--anywhere! Gas furnace in crawlspace.
Besides the plaster, I was also somewhat taken aback by the roof system--"W" or "fink" trusses, obviously made up on site, of the ropiest 2X4s you're likely to find, spaced 16" on centers. Webbing is 1X. Bottom chord is approx. 24ft long, made up of two 2X4s butt-joined in the center with a piece of 1X sistered on each side. I looked in a few books, but wasn't able to figure out if it's okay to join truss chords in this way (I'm just an amateur--this is my third whole-house reno). Anyway, as I said, these trusses have managed to hold up four layers of ashphalt shingles for 50-odd years; however, I did notice that in the living room, where the trusses span the entire room with no interior partitions to rest on, the ceiling was bowed downward--more a function of the weight of the gyprock, I think. I'm probably going to change the part of the roof system over the living room from trusses to a post and beam supported cathedral ceiling--mostly to avoid the problem of saggy ceiling joists (i.e., the bottom chord of the trusses). The rest of the roof, I'll leave alone (bottom chords are resting on partition walls, so no sagging problem).
I'll be filling the 4" deep wall cavities with R-13 pink fiberglas--cost it definitely a factor (did I mention this will be a rental?)--it may not be as well insulated as it could be, but it's better than nothing, which is the norm around here! I'll use R-13 with air channels in the cathedral ceiling and probably loose cellulose in the rest of the attic.
I haven't decided about a vapor barrier--probably just the kraft-paper facing on the R-13. What do you think?
Appreciate any comments--hope I haven't run off at the mouth too much!
Andy has been asking about ideas for the rag...this might be (might have been) a good one...a good, extensive photo essay about old time construction methods and what conditions a renovator might encounter. Possibly with an explanation (if available) as to why things were done the way they were...such as the construction of the trusses, the odd plastering, etc.
Yes! Articles such as you suggest would be invaluable to me and others like me, I'm sure. For instance, I've never dealt with trusses before and didn't even realize I had trusses until I started tearing out the plaster ceilings. I picked up a couple of (antiquated) books at the library to read up on them and discovered, lo and behold, none of the interior partition walls in this building are bearing walls (well, technically--the ones under the join in the bottom chord are probably bearing something!). So, I was able to remove the walls I didn't want without compromising the integrity of the structure (again, theoretically--I also discovered that most of the partition walls had been nailed with 3-1/2 spikes to the chord bottoms). I also learned how I could replace the trusses with load-bearing beams, which, as I mentioned, I plan to do in the living room. Actually, I've become kind of interested in the whole subject of trusses and would like to learn more about them--with the object, perhaps, of using them in new construction.
Sorry for being a jokester, but your question got some time. When I checked it was dead in the water, you're welcome.
As I read back thru this thread I could question every post, but why? There wasn't a single thing that was new.
What I don't see is you detailing your job, you give the details and we will give you options, The more you say, the more q's I have for you.
You can run to the counter for some fluff advice, but this is the place I come to when I am perflunked.
Your choice, I didn't mean to turn you off to the world.
And I really hope you'll take a second look at different texturing varieties before you settle on the hopper madness. :O)...sitting in his nowhereland.