Hey everyone!
The DIY Kitchen remodel is moving along nicely and it’s almost time to replace the lower cabinet holding the sink & adding a dishwasher to the area. The 1924 house has never had one. New sink, faucets and disposal. I’m ready to face a new challenge.
Two questions:
1) Does the DW need a separate hot water line dedicated only to it – which means me trying to learn how to tap a copper line – or do they sell (is it ok to use) some sort of “T” at the under sink connection between copper/shutoff/and flex line?
2) Are there any other particular problems to watch out for & be careful of?
Replies
You can tee off the existing hot water line under the sink. What it does need or should have is a dedicated electric circuit.
you should be able to get the exact combination of connections you need in a tee fitting- ie. 1/2" pipe compression x 3/8" tube comp x 3/8 tube comp. they make about every permutation imaginable for this application. take a short sample of all three lines to the hardware store (assuming they're not all the same size and type). it also depends on if you want (or need- code?) independent shutoffs to the sink and dw. our old house just had a common shutoff valve before the aforementioned tee. current house has a tee in the supply pipe with separate shutoffs to the sink and dw.
another consideration is dwv- that can be trickier than the supply.
m
Hey PD, Mitch, CapMac,
Thanks for the help! Good to know a T is ok. I didn't really want to light up a torch :-)
Use the compression fittings as suggested, but make it a 1/2x1/2 x1/2 tee compression, followed by a 1/2x3/8 stop valve. Lets you shut off the supply to the DW w/o shutting off the hot water to the sink. I would try to place the tee upstream of the current shut off for the sink, so the Dw could stay on if you need to shut off the hw to the sink fixture. Means you might have to shut off the the main to install the tee and valve, but it only take a few mins. to install and everything is back on while you leisurely finish the rest of the hook up.
Dave
The electrical will likely be the most complicated, and hardest to answer. Some jusridictions require the DW to be wired directly, others permit it to be just plugged in. Some will allow a plugged-in disposal but not a plugged-in DW (go figure). You will need the guidance from your local jurisdiction on how that is set up. I think a GFCI receptical is a good idea, some places will mandate it, some may require a GFCI breaker protected circuit.
The plumbing is easy, you can get a cut-off valve with two outlets for the hot water & DW for just this application. The drain connection is also almost boringly standard, too (especially if you have a disposal).
The big box stores actually sell DW installation kits, but the individual peices tend to be lower quality (IMHO), and you wind up buying parts you do not need.
I don' like the idea of feeding the DW into the GD. The DW soap is not good for the disposals and most DW will not pass anything that need more grinding up either.
You can get sink tail pieces with a stub T for the DW drain connection.
Another big difference in wiring is that some locations a cord is installed on the DW and plugged into a receptacle under the sink. That is your required local disconnect.
Other places hardwire the DW, but code requires a local disconnect. In the past they used a receptacle sized cover that had a fuse and switch. Now days they might just use a require switch, but I am not sure.
I suspect that a lot are just hardwired without the local disconnect, but that is against the code unless you have lockout devices for the breaker pannel.
The same requirements are for the GD. NEC allows either hardwiring/disconnect or plug and receptacle, but local codes or practices might require one or the other.
GFCI's are not required my NEC as the not counter top receptacles, but again local practices vary.
I don' like the idea of feeding the DW into the GD. The DW soap is not good for the disposals and most DW will not pass anything that need more grinding up either.
I see your point, I also have seen one too many installation diagrams to do it that way (and plugged caps on disposals, too <g>).
Most of the new DWs come with a grinder built in, for less complicated draining. Rather like the way many have their own heat source for the water to bring it up from the lower anti-scald temperatures mandated (some/most places).
I was more thinking about DIY on this one rather than the artistry a good drain leg represents (nothing like looking under a sink and seeing one of every drain material ever made <g> . . . )
Dumbest DW electrical connection I ever saw, was a hunk of romex, just pinched under the DPCV cover plate, run off to the DW . . . The non-flat nature of the front plat meant that the diposal would not plug in all the way, creating a "haunted disposal" call.
Why NEC does not seem to cover the under-sink outlet that's in almost all new construction is beyond me. I've seen quads mounted under sink (to accomodate DW, Disp, & "Instant On" HW), to power a number of electrical appliances, all near water, and usually near or attached to a metal sink. Just something that makes me wonder, is all (the CV under my sink is not gfci, come to cases).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
There is no real reason for a GFCI under the sink.
All of the devices that are plugged in there have good ground connections through the cord and receptacle.
If you look at where GFCI's are required you will see a couple of complinations. One is a ready place for the user to be grounded; i.e. water or "damp" concrete or earth. In the kitchen is ued to be only 6ft from the sink. But I suspect that because of all of the grounded appliacnes (stoves, refigerators, DW, etc) that they made this uinveral for kitchen counter top.
And the 2nd requirement is that there is a reason "chance" that the user will end up in the path between the electricty and the ground. Those chances come from a couple of sources. Dropping the appliance in the water or using one with a bad cord (or on a bad entension cord) caused by repeated plugging and unpluging and often hacking on the cord.
None of those latter conditions are likely for a GD or DW.
Even if someone tried to use their GD while holding it over the sink the cord would be too small to use the under sink receptacle and they would have to use a GFCI countertop one.
And I think that the DW is too big to hold overr the sink <VBG>.
And I think that the DW is too big to hold overr the sink <VBG>.
LoL!
Hmm, the DishDrawer is almost small enough <g>
And I just had a flashback of those cute "condo" 18" micro DWs. (Ugh, bad flashback of "remodeling" a 6'-9" x 5'-0" kitchens . . . )Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
i once lived in an old house that did not originally have a dishwasher and i'd sometimes get the feeling (no major backup or anything severe) that maybe the venting was not really sufficient for the amount of wastewater the dishwasher could pump out in a hurry- especially if both sides of the sink were being used/plugged. it seemed to labor when it was draining and i thought that might be part of the problem. could of been something else of course (not like there wasn't a bunch of other 'interesting' things about this house), but it always made me wonder if the existing system was equipped to handle newer appliances in this regard.
the problem was more pronounced with the clothes washer- even with freshly cleaned drains.
m
Wheow. When you said you're getting a new dishwasher, I thought you got married again.