Need some advice.
Customer is a nice lady I have known along time, but is scatterbrained.
Lumberyard manager is a good guy I have done business with alot ,but sometimes screws up orders in the afternoon after what I suspect is a long lunch at the tavern.
Customer wanted two walk doors and possibly two storm doors installed. I measured and sent her to the lumberyard to pick out what she wanted. Normally, I would run the doors through my account with a markup, but she wanted to order and pay directly for the doors when she picked them up. We agreed I would do the job for T&M.
The walk doors came in. The storms were still on order because she wanted a special order almond color. I had an opening in my schedule and was going through town,so I offerd to pick the walk doors up. The yard guy said she didn’t have an account, so I said OK, charge it to me.
Installed the walk doors. No problems.
The storms come in. I find out the customer wanted one storm and wanted me to ask about a wood screen door on the other. The lumberyard had ordered two storms.
I went to the yard today
Yard guy says he got the customer to “admit” she ordered two storms.
He tells me that if she hadn’t agreed to accept the storms, he would charge me, keep the door and credit me back when he sold it to someone else.
I didn’t say anything because I thought everthing was worked out and what was coming to mind wasn’t good. Loaded the storms and went home.
Called the customer tonight. Told her the doors were in. She asked me if I asked about a screen door. I told her about what the lumberyard guy had told me and said If that wasn’t right, I would have some words with him. She said she didn’t know and was confused about the difference between storm door and screen door. I will meet with her tomorrow and show her the doors and try to find out what was ordered.
I am not going to pay for the door if she didn’t order it. The problem is she may not know. How fricken hard is it for the yard to say,”Let me confirm this, you do want two doors?”
Advice? Am I wrong? What would you do?
Replies
sounds like the horse & barn door..
no good deed goes unpunished
look...... i couldn't follow your chain of events... so i doubt that any of the 3 parties can either..
appeal to everyone's better nature and hope for the best
I reread what I posted last nite. Sorry I rambled.In short:Customer wanted to select her storm and entry doors and get them herself.I refered her to the lumberyard, expecting to be out of the whole thing. I would install when she got them to the site.I ended up picking up the entry doors and charging them to me.The customer and the yard have different ideas about what storm doors were ordered.The yard wants to stick me with the storm doors even though I had nothing to do with ordering them.
Your first mistake was letting her order aloneyour second mistake was picking up and charging to your account after the agreement had been made that you would be kept out of that part. You inserted yourself, albeit in good faith and for good reason, but klearn from this BTW, I do not think I have ever known a DIY type customer to get a door order right! One that stands out in my memory was the guy who wanted a new closet built into his master bedroom. He bought two prehung pine six panel doors, called me to say he had everything on hand. I showed up and looked around for the 2x4s and SR, eetc. All he had were the two door units. And one was a different brand and pattern style than the other one!
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What exactly is a "walk door"?
And each time I feel like this inside,
Theres one thing I wanna know:
Whats so funny bout peace love & understanding? ohhhh
Whats so funny bout peace love & understanding?
Entry door.
Man Door?
CraigF,
I'm not trying to be a smarta** but this is what I see from my local yards and why so many folks go to the big boxes. They'll return ANYTHING even custom orders and "one offs".
I know it doesn't address your situation directly but honestly if the guy wants your business and has a good relationship with you, he should take your word on the events as he knows you'll be back to spend more money but that homeowner may not be?
And you may not be if he screws up another order and it costs you money.
Just my .02 cents
Mike
The really frustrating part is I wasn't there when the order was made.I wasn't suposed to be.It was just him and her and nobody knows what was ordered, but I am supposed to pay.You're right about the big boxes.
" frustrating part is I wasn't there when the order was made.I wasn't suposed to be."That is where I'll disagree with you. That is why we make a markup in remodeling work. You already knew she is flakey...
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I look at this as an opportunity to find out who your friends are and how far they will go to take care of you. My yard would take care of it and I would be happy to pay any incidental expenses associated with the screw up. They would charge me nothing.
Eat the door. Resell it if you can. BUT
Get 10-20 names addresses and phone numbers of homeowners she knows in your service area that you can market your service to and say she referred you,
AND tell the lumber yard that your not happy.
AND tell your next customer to call you while they are at the order desk before they pay for the order.
best case....have the customer come with you when you go in and talk to the yard...you could ask her to ride along to help "clear up any confusion". I find it is easier to clear the air if all parties are present while the problem is being ironed out. that way, everyone will know just where they stand in the end. As long as you keep a cool head, things will tend to go in your favor.
another thing to consider...in the long run, is the potential loss of contacts/customer worth the price of the door? keep in mind the big picture.
good luck
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Politicians, like diapers, need to be changed often...and for the same reason. (the rear chrome part of some old guy's car)
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Okay, how are you going to rectify the current problem? I'd eat the door and chalk it up as more tuition.
Here's what I see as the root of the problem.
Sometimes (seldom) I'll allow a customer to purchase stuff themselves. But I always make it clear that I accept zero responsibility for whatever they buy - before, during, or after installation.
It seems clear to me that there was a communication breakdown somewhere between the lumber yard and the customer. But since you allowed her to run it through your account (why did you do that?) and then agreed to pick it up (why did you do that?) and the fact that you are now trying to straighten this out (for obvious reasons) shows that you are, in fact, accepting responsibility for the mess.
And THAT'S why you need to make a proffit on every sale. So that you can continue to deliver professional services as a part of normal business practices.
As far as the yard being obligated to "help you out" here, I try to save those for when I REALLY need help. You "force" them to take that door back, they are going to eat it. There it will sit until they put it out front marked down to a rediculously low price to get rid of it. But every time they walk by that thing, your face will pop into their heads. Is that the relationship you want to have with your suppliers? Put yourself in their shoes.
The critical mistake you made as I see it was "sending" her to the yard to pick out what she wanted. You should have at least gone with her and charged her for the consulting time. Better yet would have been to help her decide which doors to order, have them charged to your account, and marked them up (as well as charging her for your time). That's fair all around - she gets the benefit of all your knowledge and suppliers and you get compensated for your time and other "tuition" payments you've eaten in the past.
"Advice on situation"? Seems to me the more important question is "Where did I go wrong? How can I avoid this type of thing in the future?"
Edited 12/2/2006 10:45 am ET by jimblodgett
jim.. your thoughts were exactly what i was thinking
midget minds think alike , no ?
every time i get involved in no cost favor for customers.. or let them take the lead..it always bites me in the ####.. and the customers too
ordering doors is not a minor thing.. nowadays every door i order has so many specifications that it is very easy to get it wrong
yesterday was raining.. i took the opportunity to drop by my supplier & pick up a window part i had ordered from Andersen
i also ordered a 2/8 x 6/8 door we need for next week....
manufacturer, line, model number,size, handing, inswing, grills between glass, jamb savers, adjustable oak threshold, double bore, hardware, exterior casing... and delivery time
each of those required a decision.. how would a customer get it right ? ... my inside sales person would not have processed the order correctly if she were dealing with my customer
and another thing... no window order, no door order, no cabinet order, no special order is processed until my supplier has my signature on the order..this has been in effect for at least 6 months..... probably a good policy for all yardsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
"midget minds think alike , no ?"
If our minds ocassionaly think alike, it's only because I've attended the Mike Smith Business Training Program here at Breaktime over the past 7 years. And I suspect the times we don't think alike is when the lessons haven't sunk in yet.
Thanks for all the help, if I haven't said it clearly enough in the past.
Add my name to the Midget Brain Trust
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MBT, the engine behind the Taunton University of Knowledge....
Yeah, well, it's a "collective" thing, right?
I mean, someone says something, that leads to a question here, and a slightly different opinion there...then someone else disagrees totally but has a fresh outlook on the original question...and so it goes on and on, hopefully benefitting everyone involved. Right?
A long time ago I recognised I spent a lot more time pondering opinions that were dramatically different than my own. Then I started to seek those differing ideas out and let them tumble in my head instead of rejecting them outright.
The older I get, the more I realize there is for me to learn.
Feel your ears getting wet from all the ideas overflowing from the top of your brain yet?
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Met with the customer today. Showed her the doors to make sure the one she did order was the right one. Told her she was under no obligation to accept the other door. She decided the other door would work fine even though I repeatedly told her she didn't have to take it. I'll install both Monday.I was really steamed about this thing because I think the yard guy lied about the customer approving both doors. However, as I cool off I realize this was a good experience.I learned on a $200 deal instead of a $2,000 one.I learned from the best in the business how to prevent it from happening again.I really appreciate everyones help. Thanks!
That's ideas flowing out? And here I always figured I was drowning in my own ignorance! What a relief!
Exactly the same thinking here!Long time ago, I Had a job instaling shelves for an old lady. She had another guy start, delivered materials and never do mcuh of anything. She had paid him for materials.So I show up and the metal standards for brackets are the wrong kind. I order some more and go back the next day or two and do the work.Come time to pay the bill, she wants a credit for the wrong standards, like I can return them wherever...I say sure, how much you have in them? I knew I would be able to use them some day some place. It cost me about sixty bucks and I got a couple hundred bucks worth of WOM advertising out of that old bird.
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You blew it by sticking yourself into a deal (twice) where you were never supposed to be.
If the customer wants to order the doors, let her do it, and pay for it, and pick it up, and unwrap it, and verify that it is correct and ready to go. When that has been done she can call you and you can go install them.
Picking up the doors is a small mistake but not too bad... putting them on your account was the big one. Now you are in a payment dispute with your supplier over something you had nothing to do with.
This is Contracting 101.
My advice is to settle up your account like always, and put any unused doors in your garage. It's your mess because you tried to be a nice guy instead of a good businessman. I could probably strongarm my yard into taking back all 4 doors in a situation like that, but I never would.
I read the original posts and the replies, and I think I may have missed something somewhere....if I did....I apologize in advance.
How did this customer walk into a lumberyard and special order 4 doors and not pay for anything? Did she pay half up front? Zero? I don't know about you guys, but don't most lumberyards (not the big boxes), require some down payment on special orders.
I could see if a customer with an account put the order in and they would just talk it onto his/her account, but a customer with no account there?
Did I miss something?
It wouldn't be uncommon here in rural America. Both the yard guy and the customer have lived here all their lives and know each other.It's hard telling what he was thinking.
She didn't want the "insurance" of having you order the doors and collect a markup for taking the responsability and risk. She wanted to do it herself, so she should assume the problems that arose because of this. She should work out whatever solution she can with the lumber yard. You did your job, she should do hers -- after all, it's the job she insisted on taking!
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
so I said OK, charge it to me
Whats the old agage about doing good deeds?
blue
I think its in the Book of Adages next to nice guys finish last. :)