I am installing a wood ceiling in my kitchen, as part of a complete reno of the kitchen. I plan to use 5/16″ t&g pine for the ceiling. Other background info that might be relevant – heating system is forced air, and the house is in a cold-temperate climate in eastern Canada.
The final ceiling will be painted white rather than stained. I will be installing the planks to the joists, and there is no drywall in place, and I do not plan to install any. I will be adding sound insulation between the joists to reduce sound transmission to second floor bedrooms, and to add a measure of fire protection.
A couple of questions:
- sealing/painting the planks. I know that most advise sealing the planks on both sides to avoid cupping and also to avoid moisture causing any peeling of the paint. Since I am planning to paint the planks in latex, what should I seal them with? Will a normal latex primer be sufficient, bearing in mind that this is a first floor kitchen with no vapour barrier behind the ceiling? Or should I use something else? Is one coat of paint/sealant on the backs of the planks sufficient, or do I need to do more?
- attaching the planks: what is the best way to attach the planks? A couple of websites I have found suggest pre-drilling all holes through the tongues and using panelling nails or finishing nails. What about a brad gun? Could I used a compressed air gun with finishing nails, or is it best to go the old fashioned way and drill then hammer by hand? What is best for avoiding splitting the tongues? What about using glue? Should I use some glue as well, or just use nails? What about using glue and then using fewer nails – say every second joist, rather than every joist?
Looking forward to your advice.
Charles
Replies
What is the nature of the floor above?
With no drywall, any dust or dirt that gets in the ceiling (along with fiberglass fragments) will tend to filter down through the joints in the wood. Not ideal for a kitchen.
happy?
Dan,
Joists are 2x10. Above the joists is a plywood subfloor, then parquet flooring. No carpet on the second floor.
I see your point about the possible dust coming down through the ceiling. Would the rock-wool sound insulation help or hinder in that regard? I'm not sure what affect that might have. What about adding something to the bottoms of the joists to help limit any movement of dust? Vapour barrier wouldn't work, since trapping the moisture there would not be good. Is there anything else that might?
Also, if the final painting is done after the ceiling is installed, then the paint would help to seal up the small spaces between the planks. Could a little latex caulk be used on any larger spaces, helping to limit any dust movement as well as improving the look of the ceiling.
What do you think?
Charles
I think I would put in the drywall first and just fire tape it. Then you've got a surface under the wood. I agree that debris is one of several issues that this mitigates.
At that point, you can snap lines for all the joists and nail there, or you can use an adhesive - like drywall adhesive, to adhere the strips to the surface, and nail only as much as you need to keep things set while the glue dries. I would not argue that you can use no fasteners - much like adhesive in drywall to studs, you can simply use fewer.
Your cupping and warping issues come largely from temp and humidity changes which I would think would be much more prevalent in an exterior application. I don't think for what you're describing that back priming is a necessity. Nevertheless, if you want to do it for the sake of peace of mind, as it's pine, I'd shoot the whole thing with an oil primer as that will also help to seal up pitch pockets and prevent bleed thru on your visible surface.
"A bore is a man who, when you ask him how he is, tells you." -Bert Taylor
5/16 is kinda thin to apply to bare ceiling rafters. 3/4" would work better. In your case, i would install a layer of sheetrock, then glue and nail the skinny boards in place with an 18 ga brad nailer.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
FIRETRAP.
Put up the drywall first. Kitchens are where nearly all fires start, and 5/16 kindling on bare joists is a bad idea.
Like another poster said, prime both sides with oil based, then just the exposed side, IMO, with your finish coat. I would concurr with fire-taped SR first.
PIA to paint over head, as long as you need to back and front prime, why not prefinish the final coat as well? PIA to roll and brush overhead. Also a 16 gauge finish nailer with 2" pins would be a breeze to fasten it up. Either face or groove nailed. Why use glue?
5/16" is too thin for direct on framing, especially for a cieling. It will sag once the kitchen humidity and time have their way with it. That product is intended as a paneling for attachment over a more solid substrate. By putting up the SR first, you have all the benefits already mentione, plus something to glue this too.
Alternatively, if you have not purchased it yet, you could look into the 1/2" ( maybe its 9/16" ) Azek bead board for this. I will not shink or swell with changes in humidity like the other will.
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Okay ... well ... glad I asked!!
So I guess the consensus is that I should install drywall first, 1 coat of plaster, then nail/glue the 5/16 to the drywall. This would also eliminate the need to install the sound/fire insulation between the joists, since drywall would help in this regard as well. Unfortunately the drywall is already up on the walls, but that's not the end of the world. Ceiling first is preferable, but not essential. But with 8 pot lights and two light fixtures in the ceiling, I am not looking forward to this job!!!
The jury still seems split on whether or not to seal both sides of the planks. Sounds like a good idea, but perhaps not necessary. If each plank is glued to the ceiling, would that not go a long way towards reducing any cupping, or is it still preferable to seal both sides. I guess it just depends on how cautious I want to be.
Thanks for all of your input.
Charles
You can't go wrong priming both sides. set em all up on saw horses, do the backs first, then turn em over and do the fronts.
Rent or borrow a drywall lift for the ceiling rock. Piece of cake.
And I'd put a thin (*) coat of paint on them too, while on the horses. Then you can just go over the whole thing with a roller and do a bit of brush touchup here and there once it's up -- no off-color spots where you missed or couldn't get into the cracks.(*) Thin, to not muck up the T&G fit.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
You don't need a coat of plaster. Just tape and first coat the joints and screw heads.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
> But with 8 pot lights and two light fixtures in the ceiling, > I am not looking forward to this job!!!
Hmmm. Here's a story. Three weeks ago, i was putting up a ceiling of 5/8 FS with 8 cans. I figgured it was too heavy to wrassle with, so I rented a drywall lift. Using that and a Roto-Zip, my wife & I had almost the whole ceiling done (12 sheets) before the helpers showed up at 9:00 a.m.! If you are doing ceilings, these are two tools that are definately worth the investment.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
All good info.
Only thing I want to add is that finishing both sides helps prevent cupping/warping due to unequal moisture absorbtion/shrinkage. You could actually finish the off side with almost anything, but in practice, it is easier to just prime both sides.
I put some on the cieling of my bathroom and used spar varnish on all sides - 3 coats.
I used a brad nailer and then filled the holes and used a cheap kids art brush to smooth a coat of varnish over the filler and after 5 years still looks good.
I agree with those who think that 5/16" stock is too thin. I did something similar this past summer on our kitchen ceiling but used 1x4 t&g stock (actually 3/4" x 3 1/2"). I routed an additional v-groove in the center so it looks like 1 1/2" strips of wood. The trick is to find relatively straight stock. I started off with a batch of straight spruce but switched over to pine when I couldn't get any more decent spruce.
You definitly want to prime and paint it before it goes up. In a kitchen, where you may want to wash the ceiling at some point, I would suggest an egg-shell oil paint rather than latex. Also, shellac the knots if you don't want them to bleed through.
I pre-drilled to avoid splitting the tongue and used small finishing nails without any glue. With t&g stock I don't think I would be too concerned with dust migrating down from the upper floor.
ChipTam