*
If your looking for some free ware try www.cadopia.com, suppose to be like auto cad. new to CAD so can’t comment on it. a 500 page manual also available. number of forums. luck
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Where can you get IntelliCAD.
*
As Joe posted above...
i Affordable cad? How about free. . . Cadopia.com
near the stream,
aj
*jake's dad are you still there?I think if you would reply and describe exactly what kind of jobs you do and if you any employees or not that would help us in the feedback department.Design work takes a lot of time and most Design/Build firms I know have a dedicated person or staff to do this work alone.I know some one man/woman contractors who use simpleCAD programs to layout partions in say , a basement remodel job and they whip these out fast , while on-site with customer along with a bid. And that works great, it is quicker , neater and there is documentation so that the customer with not later say " I didn't want the wall there". But for these people to develope accurate photo realistic images of what the finished project will look like , with furniture , plants, etc, ....they would be forfieting time they need to be spending doing the work and getting paid. For this you are getting more into Design/Build or the work done by all those outfits putting out those house plan books.I agree that CD may not be quite the selling tool youmight think. Spend hours making a pretty photorealistic image for someone and then they ask if the 5/12 pitch can be changed to 6/12 and then you spend more time and then they take your work and show it to someone else and they having 0 hours invested in design , outbid you. Don't get me wrong CAD is great. Cheap ? Well I must say I'm not familiar with some of the Software products mentioned above, but I know that some of those cheap CAD programs you see at Best Buy for under $100, have a lot of limitations.. like only being able to dimension to whole numbers (try doing that with 2x4's and 1/2 drywall)..not being able to offset things like walls, windows etc..dimensioning only to center of studs ( I would never do these to a framing crew). I use Softplan and love it some say it is over priced , but heck it comes with lifetime free tech support , which is rare. Most companies you have to pay for support after some intr period of time. For slow peolpe like me , I had to put a very high dollar value on that.I'd say if you are serious about getting into the business (you didn't say exactly what type) I'd schedule a little boondoggle to one of them national building or remodeling conventions. Check them out in the publications and make sure to pick one that has reps from the CAD companies coming. You can actually see and test these different programs in use, much better than reading a brochure , which is no way to sellect this type of product.good luck in your new venture.
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Jake's dad,
As you may have found out by now their is a overload of cad programs out on the market. You may want to check out this web site http://www.tenlinks.com it has a ton of cad and builder info.
I do drafting work for a living (DJS Drafting) most of what I do is
provide working drawings for permit application for builders and architects from their designs.I still draft by hand and am very good at what I do but with the technology moving the way it is I am looking to change over.
From talking to different sales people from different cad companies
they all seem to agree on the same thing.Their is Basically two types of cad programs 2D and 3D.you need to find out if you want a 2D or 3D
then go from thier.They also mention that in a couple of years all cad programs will be 3D.
The ones that I like so far are Data cad 8.5 and Data Cad plus and
Vector works Architect. These are programs for Architects and builders
and designed for them to use.Autocad LT is also a good program but with no 3D.The thing that I don't like about auto cad is that it is a complex program to learn and all the extra features it is used by every one from NASA to builders. I don't need all the extras I just need a program to do working drawings.
Most of these cad programs have demo's you can download or order on the internet I would suggest to try the demos for the programs you like then go from thier.
good luck
Doug Simpson
DJS Drafting
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dj,
Just wanted to note ....
i dimensioning only to center of studs ( I would never do these to a framing crew)...
I actually prefer to layout with only center marks!!!!....
For me it's way faster, easier, and accurate, and no mistakes as to where to nail the lumber....never changin back.
near the stream,
aj
*I notice that no-one, so far, has mentioned that some of these CAD programs need serious computers to make them work. If you have a fairly new high-end machine, then there's probably no problem; but, if it's a couple of years old, or you economized with a 32M machine and a Celeron heart, then it's upgrade time. Figure on at least 128M of RAM and 20G of FREE disk space, 256M+ would be better; a wide printer (at least 11" wide, 18 to 24 is better); and a cable or DSL internet connection if you want to exchange drawings. A lot of the power of CAD is in the programming tools; the ability to program repetetive functions or design features into the system. There's a whole sub-industry for selling add-on libraries for specific tasks/industries (like the ones that do kitchen cabinets). There's also vertical and horrizontal integration to think of (estimating, automatic purchase order generation, project management, costing, scheduling, etc.). But this also means that you can get trapped into one technology, so pick one with legs (I'm still using an old version of CADAM !). Lastly, if you mainly want to do some 3D rendering for sales purposes, then buy one of the design tools that will work from elements (like, put a wall here); and not one that starts with builder's working drawings and then can render a finished look. (Simple message, a visualization tool does in minutes what would take an hour using full CAD). Off the wall, I have a little program (ARRRG, I can't find the CD to give you the name) that takes CAD drawings and makes them look like they were hand-drawn, you can adjust the look from basic scribler through gifted artist. Besides inhibiting your clients from asking for too many what-if drawings, I've noticed that the building department are for more forgiving and helpful with hand-drawn plans (maybe my imagination).
*Jack,Good to hear from you. I guess I've had so many request from framers for dimensioning to edge, that I just assumed that was the way everyone wanted it. I can see once you get use to a preference , that it kind of works best for you. I'd sure do it to the framers preference, it is easy with Softplan to do changes back and forth. One thing about dimensioning to center , is it does clean up some of the cluter. With all the code notation and such, the page does get pretty crowed at 1/4" scale.You just gave me an idea for another string...stay tuned.djk
*What, no install disk? No backups??????Living life on the retro edge, man. Claris CAD is antique -- did it morph into Claris Draw and then get dropped? I poked around online ... this guy will send you a Claris CAD 2.0v3 used disk for $20 ... A longer look around will doubtlessly get you a freebie.
*
On a Mac, DenebaCAD is as good as anything I've seen. http://www.deneba.com
*
..i had the beta version of AutoCad back in '84..
then i went back to my board until '97 ..
after two years of research, i decided to jump back in with Chief Architect '97 (version 5.0)..i also bought Acad Lite '97 because of the 2D CAD and export ability.. i upgraded that to Acad Lite'98.. but i haven't used it at all since the 6.0 version of Chief came out
now i'm using CA 6.0 exclusively .. this is a great 2D / 3D program that will do everything including complex roofs...about $850....including great support... a world class user group...
they also have a strong dealer network with regional training centers..CD training.... a great manual
and a downloadable demo (can't print)...
the learning curve is steep.. but short... shorter than Vectorworks and definitely shorter than Softplan..
if you are interested in multi-user .. look at Vectorworks...if you have staff that uses integrated estimating... look into Softplan..
but single user, with a need for sophisticated drawings and 3d presentation.. then i would put Chief number one on my list...
b but hey, whadda i no ?
*What's the native file format for CA, Mike?
*I'll cast my vote for "FREE" as in Strata 3D Check it out. Set your client up with 3D specs for the stereoscopic effect.Here is their tutorial on "building buildings in Strata 3D", on how the writer drew this: View Image... and I haven't read the instructions much, but here's some 3D text I just threw together for fun (my kids' names ... note the raytracing details). (The HTTP server appears to be down at the moment, but the file is there.)The program can provide considerably greater detail. Amazing what desktop machines can do now.
*Andrewd, the text I got from your link said NOT FOUND - and it definitely wasn't in 3D...
*To quote Han Solo, IT'S NOT MY FAULT!! (Don't worry, a copy is on its way by e-mail.)HANHey, Jabba. Look, Jabba, I was just on my way to pay you back, but I got a little sidetracked. It's not my fault. Jabba laughs. JABBA (in Huttese subtitled)It's too late for that, Solo. You may have been a good smuggler, but now you're Bantha fodder.
*adrain.. this is one of those trick questions right ?this is where i demonstrate my ignorance..the file extensions of the Chief files are .pl1.pl2.pl3 and a lot of others...... i can export in .dxf or .bmp or .wmfalso vrmlit talks to Autocad 14.. and of course AcadLite.....i hope that's whjat you were looking for
*Dude, That's even more of an antique than ClarisCAD, My kids have Jabba in the attic now, and he still works, pit and all, more than I can say for my original disks AND backups. Checking out "this guy," keep you posted.Maybe I can draw again, BB
*Yup. Thanks.
*Search the Web (Altavista &/or Sherlock recommended), and check the Apple site, too. This company sells a translator for ClarisCAD-->AutoCAD format. But do NOT click on this link. :)
*Last word -- for Macintosh (or not) CAD folks including user(s) of the dead-but-not-defunct ClarisCAD, I stumbled into http://www.architosh.com/ -- very nice nascent e-magazine site with links and info for CAD/3D.
*Andrew,I'm surprised it took you so long to stumble onto architosh! You must not bookmark MacSurfer.com They headline links from all over the place that are mac-related, and Architosh pops up pretty regularly. I always start my evening with a trip to MacOSRumors.com and MacSurfer.com and Dealmac.comSteve
*You're a sick man, Zerbster.
*Yeah, but I bet you just bookmarked those URL's, didn't ya?
*No, i know i can always come back here and type in "Zerby." :)
*If anyone is interested in structural analysis there is a shareware program at:http://www.cadreanalytic.com
*
I am just getting started with my own business but would love to have a CAD program to use as a selling point to home owners. It is hard to part with a $1000.00 now. Does anyone have any suggestions?
*I suggest you search the archives; there is a lot of info there on different programs, and get back if you still have questions. This is a much discussed area, but you need to know what you want to get out of a program. Try searching under CAD, Vectorworks, Solidbuilder, Chief Architect, Autocad, Turbocad,Intellicad, whatever other names you can think of. That will give you a good starting point, and most of the programs have several users on this board.
*Don't put too much money into sales tools when you're just starting out. You don't have any idea what will and what won't help you sell until you've spent a couple of years trying.I don't think pretty cad drawings are much of a sales tool. Besides, unless you're getting a contract do to design work, these drawings can be a stumbling block. Takes too much time to do nice pretty drawings as a sales tool. We already spend too much time on proposals for work we may or may not get. If you go see the client, go home and make pretty drawings and bring them back, there will be changes they want to see. More time in the office, a third visit...in the mean time, they met with somebody else and liked his suggestions too so please change this and get back to us. Now it's been a month, 22 hours in the office estimating, and you don't get the job.Make a nice sketch on paper with them on the first visit and get them a price as fast as possible. Simplify, simplify, simplify. As Rick R. once told me: "Make it easy for them to buy."
*jake's dad,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*Jake's dad,I agree with Ryan. CAD won't sell your clients anything. Tell your buyers you use CAD and they'll want to try every possible variation they can think of with the design. Then when they've got the design to where they want it they'll ask (believe me, they will) for copies of your design to look over in their spare time. Then they'll shop it around and give the contract to someone cheaper anyway. Use CAD for YOUR convenience in getting the design buildable.
*CAD can be very helpful for some clients, but don't give the service away. Charge honestly for your time. If they take the design elsewhere, you've still been compensated for your work. If they don't want to pay, it's because it's not worth it to them. So be it. but then it's not worth it to you either.Steve
*Customers seem to like 3-d renderings and can't understand 2-d very well. Most probably like whiz-bang fly-through stuff that does nothing for the tradesman more than technical drawings. (This was true when I did medical imaging, too: neuroradioligists and surgeons like the "old-fashioned" slice images.) CAD should mostly be there to make your job easier!Competition is fierce. I'm using a simple $35 shareware program on a Mac, CADintosh. you can spend as much as you like, but I'm sure there are a lot of other things on the wishlist that will do a whole lot more for productivity and sales. Get a good accounting program!Organization and simplicity and honesty sell. Agree with Ryan and Thoreau, simplify.
*Joe, How does Intellicad compare with AutoCAD? I've been using R14 and 2000 at work and school. Would like something for for personal use but I don't have an extra $3500 laying around. I do some 3D work and am wondering about file compatibility.
*jcallahan,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*Hi Joe,I use TurboCad for the same reasons. It's fully AC compatible and I can convert the DWG files to just about anything I want.The real advantage is the enhanced ability to edit that AutoCad can't do. A real bonus for creating as-builts of complex autocad drawings.I think a full version retails for about 100US. They also have a free version with advertizing attached. This free version is full featured and is handy for anyone wanting to try it out.Gabe
*Hi Gabe,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*Joe; FWIW I started with TC 5, and I am now at 6.5 Pro. There is no comparison; noone liked 5, and it never really worked right. 6.5 isn't perfect, but it is light years ahead of 5, and v7 is in the final stages of testing. I'm not a cad whiz, but I've used AC14, and TC 6.5 is much more intuitive IMO. I exchange AC drawings with no problem (but I keep an AC program on my system just in case), and I also have Intellicad which I never really touched after some initial trials, as I don't need it. Icad is basically an orphan from what I understand, and I didn't want to invest even more time in a program that may or may not have a future, and TC does everything i need.I was lucky enough to get some tutoring from Gerry Lalonde, who is the most proficient CAD guy I know, and who posts here sometimes(lots of experience with AC 14 and Minicad): he really liked the new TC, and preferred it in some ways to AC. He also liked Icad from what he saw of it. I don't want to speak for him, but maybe he will chime in.
*Adrian,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*If you do persist in your quest for cad...I started at ebay and got a new minicad 6 (older version) then upgraded to vectorworks (same company, newer software). You need to be sure that the software you buy on ebay is not registered, or that the registeree will transfer registration..otherwise you will not only have an illegal piece of software, but you will not be able to upgrade. Minicad 6 is a very capable cad, and though a few years old, you might find it a good beginning place. Almost regularly it becomes available on ebay, and can generally be bid for under 50 bucks , counting shipping. There is also a very fine discussion list . A reason for cad might be that a client can more easily get the idea from various three dimensional views of what you are proposing. I have found it magically helpful on my present project. Yes, there is the thing of added complexity to what we do...Sometimes paper and pencil (sticks in dirt) are just what's needed. Patrick
*This site has a lot of CAD shareware. Joe HOK, why is the link RED?
*'cause you've been there ... we haven't
*Jake's dad,I agree with Ryan C, a pretty CAD drawing is not a good selling tool. So use other methods to sell yourself to the client and once you get the job, your CAD should only be expected to do one thing, allow you to do the drawings you need faster than you can do them by hand, period. All drawing programs have their pros and cons and if cost is your number one consideration, go for the free one, IntelliCAD. From what I've seen, it is so similar to AutoCAD that any AC book will get you off to a good start.
*Thanks
*If your looking for some free ware try http://www.cadopia.com, suppose to be like auto cad. new to CAD so can't comment on it. a 500 page manual also available. number of forums. luck
*I have to say, for the type of work I do, a cad drawing is a very powerful presentation tool. Especially as I can't draw a crooked stick figure. Having a decent drawing saves me the burning humiliation of having everybody know that(not that my cad drawings will ever make me famous). And the customers eyes always light up.But I don't make the drawing for the client; I make it for me, whether it is a floor plan or a detail, or I'm working out some geometry. I rarely draw in 2d, usually in 3d, and when I'm done I can get a lot of construction information from the drawing (dimensions, angles, full size templates, etc.), and it helps to make sure I haven't missed something. I add a title block and do a little rearranging to make a drawing to show to the customer.
*Yeah, that's the Intellicad mentioned above.
*Andrew, I figured that out later. Another part of the new look, what's next? Joe H
*Adrian,Must admit I was thinking primarily of house designs when I made my comment about CAD not being a good selling tool. But I imagine if you need to send your e-cabinetry solutions half-way around Europe then that 3D digital image comes in handy.
*Jeeze, joe,I was gonna give you a big kiss, 'til I found out it only with the dark side computers.Oh, ya big lug, I'll kiss ya anyway, BB
*BsB,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*Adrian,Me too, I use the drawings to figure out how the stuff will go together, whether it will fit, and how much I need to get.2d is all I've ever needed, and if I show the drawings to a client, they say, they say "wow, cool, you can use a computer, quick, take my money."So, I'd have to say it's a pretty powerful presentation tool, and, it saves a hell of lot on erasers.Does anybody out there use Claris CAD? Mine went south, BB
*Aye, aye cap'n,Actually, it's the only thing I can figure out. Know anybody with the Claris CAD program. Mine just self destructed. Oh, oh spaghettio's. BB
*I use cad to make drawings for permits because I can do it on the computer faster. I also use cad to figure out rafter cuts, roof pitches, and all sorts of stuff I would actually need to do math for. But I don't want to complicate the selling process any more than I have to and CAD is a stumbling block for me.