*
Saw on the news this morning that an American was captured who was in the Taliban forces. He will be turned over to the Justice dept. Trying to think what crime they will charge him with. Terrorism? Murder?
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Replies
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Hopefully,
i treason.
Jeff
*Try'em and Fry'em in NY
*Awww, have a heart guys. I just read in the newspaper that his Mom says he was "a shy, sweet kid", from California who went to Pakistan with an Islamic humanitarian group to study the Koran and help the poor.
*On the MSNBC site there was an article that had that quoate but laso that he described himself as a "warrior". Looked up treason in the US code. Pretty broad but can fit. Wonder if it will come down to whether he knew he was fighting the US.
*Yup, same things were said about Jeff Dahmer.
*I saw an interview that he said he knew he was fighting with Osama Bin Laden's forces. Since he was in the US 4 years ago, that means he joined up after Bin Laden's attacks on US embassies. You also have to guess that he knew where all of those bombs were coming from for the last 30 days. I think that spells treason.Before joining up with Bin Laden, he also spent some time in Kashmir fighting with Pakistani forces against the Indian government. (Kashmir is in dispute, but is recognized as part of India.) Doesn't he sound like a nice shy sweet kid! A real peach.Honestly though, I have to say that more than anything else I feel sorry for him. Of all the stupid, misguided things to do with your life, he chose just about the stupidest. I can not imagine his Mother having to show her face at the grocery store or hair salon. I bet there are about a dozen TV crews in her front yard asking her how it feels to be the mother of one of Bin Laden's troops. He has embarassed himself and his family. As sorry as I feel for him, I think trial for treason is in order. We all make choices, we all deal with the consequences.Peace to all, especially his family.-Rob
*So now what? He's an American citizen so no military tribunal for him (I guess)which means he gets a court trial here. Represented by which of the crowd of scumbags who will be clamoring for the chance (paid by you & me, you betcha)to make sure the poor misguided brainwashed child gets the fair trial he is due? How they gonna pick the jury? Insist on morons? Find a dozen people who never heard of 9-11 and Bin Laden? Maybe the OJ jurors are available, they'd do nicely. Endless interview with parents & neighbors. Endless interviews with Harvard/Yale law professors all explaining why he should go free becuz that Evil George Bush is the real culprit in all of this.Whoever took custody of this murdering bastard from the NA who had him will probably wish he'd have shot him on sight. Joe H
*This nice boy needs to be handed over to the Northern Alliance(of heroin smugglers) and let them have carte blanche. They were the ones he pointed a rifle at. I am sure that they could find an appropriate forum to let him whine in. The brave people who went to Canada in WWII to join the RAF could be shot as spies if they were caught on the ground. The Abe Lincoln brigade in the Spanish Civil War the same. If they were willing to take the consequences of their actions, so can this guy. Maybe people who think your US citizenship gives you a 'pass' on getting strung up will learn a little. Evil is real. Failing to call this guy evil or a consort of evil will lower us to third world morality.
*We are not technically at war since only Congress can declare war and Congress did not declare war. They just gave Bush II the law he needed to conduct military action as needed to deal with the terroism of 9/11 - not the same thing. So, does treason apply if we are not technically at war? I don't know the answer.As for military tribunals, it isn't clear to me that they are limited to non-US citizens. The language was pretty vague.Personally, I have no sympathy for this idiot. He still had to know the Taliban were murdering creeps who routinly abused and tortured the populace of Afghanistan when he went there and chose to be a part of that. Someone who doesn't appreciate freedom or liberty.Mary
*Let the Northern Alliance do with him what they will. Or let Heather Mercer and Dany Curry have at him....
*anybody hear how old he is?
*The article I read said he was 20 years old.
*I just feel sorry for his parents. Folks now are discouraged if their kid doesn't become a pro ball player or in some pop band by age 15. Jeez, look at them! How must they feel?"Benedict Arnold Jr" really made them proud.Mike
*If he was only a member of the Taliban, then he was at war with the Northern Alliance, and they will deal with him as any other prisoner of war. I would NOT want to be in his shoes. Being a U.S. citizen doesn't mean squat for him at this point. However, if they prove he was an actual member of Al Quaida (SP?), he could be in some serious legal trouble. He would be deemed a terrorist, and no telling what will happen to him BEFORE the U.S. gets him (if they ever do).I feel bad for his family. Good or bad, a momma has to love her children. She may not be proud of his actions, but she still probably loves him. That is gonna be a hard thing to do with all the hassles she's gonna face in the near future.James DuHamel
*James,Once again, you've hit the nail on the head, so to speak
*I heard on the news that he attended a AL Quaida training camp. he new about the USS Cole. He was in the prison where the riot took place that killed the CIA agent. I say try the traitor and fry the traitor. Sorry for his folks thought and his family. they said he never finished high school and his parents are divorced.he took up the Koran and was converted to Islam at 15 y.o. He knew what he was doing. So as they say if your gonna dance to the music ya gotta pay the band.
*At least he went somewhere to fight a war instead of shooting up the school cafeteria. We breed a lot of hate in this country.
*teo,Wrong!We breed and grow lots of love in this country.But weeds spring up unwanted in any garden. Don't blame the gardener for it.
*They said on Fox news last night that he supported (In principal) the 9/11 attacks on the WTC and Pentagon. They said we couldn't charge him with treason, since we weren't legally at war. But there were other charges we could use that carried the death penalty. (Don't remember the name, though)I say fry him.
*I heard his father interviewed and he said he was a religious zealot and shouldn't be punished.I say Bah! This "logic" that if someone does something for religious reasons, then it's ok and he should be excused is garbage. He knew exactly what he was doing and fully supported toruture and human rights abuses in the name of Islam. The news also said he had met bin Laden many times.It really sounds like the Taliban was more a foreign regime than an Afghanistan one. They could only stay in power with the large infusion of foreigners - Arabs, Pakistanis and now a few Americans.There are also reports of a couple other POWs that claim to be American. Our military is taking a cautious view and only saying they are investigating the claims.Mary
*You don't have to be at war to commit an act of treason. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2381.htmlSec. 2381. Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
*I'm curious, if he met with bin Laden, is that where some of their (obviously accurate) understanding of US flight crew reactions to a few box openers?I'm pretty clever. And have been to 20-odd countries. But I wouldn't have a clue as to the best way to hijack a bus in Kenya. But I could have predicted the reaction to the 9-11 hijackers (at least until the word of the WTC came over the cellphones). Because I live here, grew up in the culture, and fly a lot.Beyond the admittingly clever method of toppling the WTC and the obvious organization and dedication to the cause, the missing piece for me was the cultural understanding (by them of us). Which the co-operation of individuals like this guy could help explain.
*I've got to chime in with you all here, and say even if 20 is pretty young, you still deal with the consequences of your actions.You can learn about other religions and ways of seeking truth, and go the route George the Beatle did. Or you can make other choices.But you reap the consequences. And I don't know the correct military or legal protocol, but this liberal won't be protesting on his behalf.And I don't hold his parents responsible, I only feel sorrow for them.
*David,Scary thought, but certainly sounds plausible. Also, we have to remember that terrorist cells live in the US and other free countries like Germany, Spain, etc... There is lots of evidence that the 9-11 attackers had flown many times within the US. I think some even had flown the intended flights previously in order to pattern the crew movements etc...I'm not sure it would be hard for a foreigner to predict the crew's actions with a little reconasance like this. They obviously didn't gauge the passenger's reactions to box cutters in the PA flight... Perhaps we are not the "weak infidels" that they had assumed???????
*Stray: Agreed, their residency in the West for a few years would help. But I think they factored in possible passanger interference. All those flights had remarkably few passangers. It might have been to minimize the chance of an off-duty cop or Marine being aboard. What little I've heard of the PA crash is that it proceeded like the others until the passangers heard of the WTC.Which was my thought as soon as the second plane hit: Can they advise all flight crews that the rules have changed? The hazard of nail clippers and fingernail files in the cabin eludes me. That tactic could not be used by anyone anywhere after 10 am on 9-11.
*How sad. What a moron. A 20 year old idiot who was brainwashed by Islamic fanatics.I would interrogate the shit out of him. Do you think the Rangers gave him a Miranda warning? Do you really want him tried in an American Court? Do you think a jury would convict him of anything?I'd like to just see him disappear.
*Thanks. The news last night mentioned it wouldn't be all that easy to win a treason case for this guy, knowing what we do now, but there were other laws (unspecified) he has broken and it might be easier and surer to try him against those. Where's our resident lawyer when we need him?Mary
*I saw this guy with a few other Taliban on the news. They all look like they'd been in my crawl space. ;-)-- J.S.
*He was in Afganistan fighting the Afganies let them have him. Daniel
*I wonder if he wore his baseball cap backwards? If so, his parents would have known that there was something wrong with him. : )
*Truly funny! Pass that on to your profilers, Cynthia. Just pass out baseball caps to all suspects and see which ones wear them in an offensive way--them's the guilty ones!
*Damn right!
*He is not eligible for a military tribunal because he is a U.S. citizen. The liberal press is going nuts trying to find a way out for the turncoat. One exclaimed surprise that he was "still" being detained by the U.S. military!!!!His Father says that after being debriefed he should be set free as "he did nothing wrong". I would think treason would be the applicable charge, but if that is difficult to prove, as claims the liberal media station I heard, than find a lesser charge, like jaywalking, that he could spend the rest of his life behind bars because of.
*He's surely eligible for the same fate as the Rosenbergs.http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/rosenb/ROS_ACCT.HTM
*Liberal press? NBC news headlined his story with "Traitor" Don't know what you are talking about. All the liberal press outlets I read, hear and see are not giving this guy a pass and are calling him what he is.Mary
*He has spent the last year of his life shooting at Indian and Afghani soldiers and civilians. I think he should face the music in one or both of those countries.If an Afghani were in this country shooting off a machine gun, he would face our justice system. I don't think his American citizenship should be a "get out of Afghani jail free" card.WARNING, RANT BEGINNING...I truly feel bad for his parents, but the responses I have heard from his parents to date have been to deny, minimize or excuse his behavior. If there is one thing that drives me nuts is parents that think that they are doing their kids a favor by excusing their kids mistakes. News flash: all this yields is kids that have no sense of responsibility or accountability for their actions. If you want to help your kids out in life, tell them in every way possible that they are responsible for their choices and actions, and that there are counsequences which they may not like for poor choices.This kid has joined up with the most notorious terrorist network in the world, has been involved in active combat in foreign lands, and his Dad thinks that he should be able to walk away. Aaargh.Deep breathing exercizes... in, out, in ... much better.Peace.-Rob
*try him and fry him
*>The liberal press is going nuts trying to find a way out for the turncoat. One exclaimed surprise that he was "still" being detained by the U.S. military!!!Where's some evidence of this? Please identify what you think is liberal press and how they're going nuts and evidence of their trying to find a way out for him.
*Robert: I agree. For once in his life, he should have to pay the consequences of his actions, and it's hard to feel too sorry for his parents when all they say is excuses for his incredibly vicious behavior. It's not like they tried to turn him into a good responsible and caring human being. Instead they make excuses for his following the most repressive and vicious view of religion anybody ever came up with and wonder how that could have happened.I heard a school teacher from some private school this kid went to saying that's how their kids are - independent thinkers. How ironic. He chooses to follow blindly the most authoritarian group on the face of the earth and she thinks he's an independent thinker?ok rant over.Mary
*i chooses to follow blindly the most authoritarian group on the face of the earthDidn't his Mom say he must have been brainwashed? Well, if he wasn't, it needs a good cleaning out. ITA w/both you and Robert.
*I feel bad for his parents. I feel worse for the parents of those killed serving in our military in Afghanistan. I feel terrible for the parents, children, spouses, loved ones, co-workers and friends of the victims of 9/11.
*I too have sympathy for his parents, but none whatso ever for him.There is a report that he met with Johnny Spaan, the CIA agent who was killed in the prison revolt. Methinks the wrong American died that day.http://www.msnbc.com/news/668588.asp
*I was thinking my more liberal friends would support this guy. They said let the Afghanis fry. I was suprised. Did you see the piece on the woman in the Armed Services who does not want to wear a scarf on her head in Saudi Arabia? At first I thought , well ok. Then I thought, how is she going to take advantage of the biggest chance in her life to meet someone, women namely, of another culture who may shed light on what this world is really like for them. To enter the world of a Saudi woman you may have to concede a little to get a lot back. She would be a much more valuable officer to the US if she learned more. Here's a chance to go mufti and do some good, unlike the idiot who picked up a gun instead.
*i To enter the world of a Saudi woman you may have to concede a little to get a lot back.ITA Dave, welcome aboard, plastic knifes allowed, and how long has the "When in Rome . . ." saying been around? I'm sure she has her reasons (such as diminished vision/whatever), but when traveling, I always want to look like a local. More than ever, we have to have some willingness to learn about global differences.Didja catch the bit on NewsNight (CNN) re satellite TVs in Afghanistan? (Some of the dishes made, quite artfully, of tin cans.) They are curious about the Western world. Although I vaguely recall that ignorance was bliss, I feel education/knowledge/learning opportunities/whatever works is paramount to getting along w/folks of differing views. There will always be something you can share.
*Kai, ITA? I am rather new to the electronic boards. IMHO I got, but not ITA yet. I went mufti in Russia in 1991 and traveled there for 3 months. It was an unmatched experience. I did not come back a commie. I came sad as hell that a people could be abused for so long. They say you get the government you deserve, and this is in a way true. But overall it killed lots of myths. 1)Russians are lazy. Well,not when they are working in their own garden,house, car. Damned creative by necessity. 2)Russian women are homely. See how good you look after weeding a field of commercial produce by hand in the hot sun for a decade or so. See how good any nice woman looks in a dress from the Goodwill vs Macy's. 3) Russians are bad cooks. I ate till I nearly exploded in the homes of locals.I would kill my mother or sell her to the Taliban for fresh Russian varenicki. 4) Russians drink to much. Well, you can't kill all the myths at once now, can we? This woman in the military is missing some great things. Its very sad to see.
*Dave, ITA = I Totally AgreeWhat is fresh Russian varenicki? TIA (yeah, I could google but I am about to turn in)
*Vareniki. Think asian potsticker. Small little dumpling, usually filled with sour (pie) cherries and a little sugar. Drop in boiling water or steam them. When they cook up a little and are done you cool them. Then dip in honey or sourcream and munch. Very nice. Check both Russian and Ukrainian recipes.Now that you got me going, Ukrainian GREEN borscht is a great fresh soup. It has potatoes, pork, onion, fresh sorrel and fresh dill weed and crumbled hard boilded eggs. Not often in the reciped books, a little hard to find a recipe.
*What are you going to turn into ?b : )
*i potatoes, pork, onion, fresh sorrel and fresh dill weedYum sorrel and dill!But back to topic, Bill Maher said, mocking the parents reprimand to this dude, "Boy, you are so grounded!" LOLSomeone on the panel equated him to Patty Hearst, hung up w/an ideal at a young age. Try him, have him serve time (and get rehab?). Hmmm.
*Last report that I heard, John Walker had apparently been questioned by our fallen CIA agent on the same day he was killed in the prison uprising. Coincidence? Perhaps.After his capture by American forces, Walker stated that he supported the attack on his fellow Americans Sept. 11th.I believe he is either going to be tried as an accessory to the death of the CIA agent, or exhibiting treasonous behavior against the U.S.However, his father is gathering lawyers, telling us that we should "have mercy--he is just a boy"--but I am not buying it. A boy with a gun and a agenda. Seems that in recent years, our domestic terrorists have gotten harsher sentences--and we should use John Walker as an example that this type of treasonous behavior is not tolerated. How can not let thousands of terrorists off the hook, yet would spare one American that helped them? He took his chances when he signed with them, he knew the circumstances if he was captured. End of story.
*try him and fry him
*Last I heard, over 18 you are not a boy, you are an adult. With all the rights come all the responsibilities. I don't know about youse guys, but I had to read "Man Without a Country" in school. It gives you pause as to what your citizenship is worth. And his punishment, to never hear again of his country was his own curse before the judge. Great Story. If any of you are travellers, you know that the most precious thing you own is your American citizenship. It is priceless. Perhaps this poor fool can spend the rest of his life in the brig of a ship with no news of his country ever again.
*Dave - That's what I keep thinking too - since when is a 20 year old a boy? This guy graduated from high school 4 years ago and has been overseas on his own for about 3. He's no child.
*
Saw on the news this morning that an American was captured who was in the Taliban forces. He will be turned over to the Justice dept. Trying to think what crime they will charge him with. Terrorism? Murder?