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I was recently subbing for a framer in Easton, CT. The project was a new house which will probably sell for $600K +. (Hunting Ridge Road, might be even higher priced). Although there were anchor bolts in the foundation, the contractor simply drilled holes in the sill plates (which he doubled), to allow the plates to slip over the bolts. When I asked if he used washers and nuts, he laughingly replied that “We aren’t building a church”. Am I wrong in thinking that this is shoddy work? I’ve remodeled 200 year old houses which were built better than this one. Are the codes simply becoming lax?
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I don't know about CT but we in RI have to put bolts 4' oc and leave view ports through successive plates (if multipul plates used) so the inspector can check the tightness of nuts and washers. If we use straps they check for the nails.
Realistically I don't think the house will rise off the foundation. Unless we get an earthquake, severe hurricane or tornado.
What's the building code there?
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The last time I checked they were still required, atleast in Michigan. I never thought that they were that much effort or an excessive cost. I think I'll stick with the "old" system wheather I'm building a church or a cottage.
*But you can bet that if the house does rise, the owners will be the first to turn to the quick fix for all of today's problems - the lawsuit.The contractor that said "we ain't building a church" is probably a sub for a developer. Where is the developer's quality control? Where is the sense of pride? Why do buyer's tolerate this stuff?It's sad, but the world is letting their pocketbooks turn us toward shoddyness (although this development doesn't sound too shoddy.)
*I appreciate the input, I was beginning to lose faith in the industry. I'm not a professional framer, but I've been remodeling for twenty years. I've helped on framing jobs (meaning new homes) and personally built many decks, dormers, and garages. I've always gotten the thumbs up from local building inspectors. This house I asked about was a "keep busy during the winter by subbing as a helper" job. Any other time I've worked on a house with 2x6 walls, the builder put in three nails per stud-end, this framer insisted on only two. Is the third nail all that critical? My gut wouldn't let me omit it, but I'm used to building decks, where the stakes are seemingly higher. I've seen other tradesmen use toenailing where I'd put joist hangers. I'm getting the impression that people who read Fine Homebuilding put craftsmanship over profit. Are we square pegs in round holes these days?
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Matt, As a building official I can say it's imposible to watch every move some of these "hacks" make, but I can tell you when they have to come back and fix it and pay a penalty, it usually cures them. As an accomplished builder and master carpenter I have a phrase for these guys "they can't hold my hammer let alone carry my tool box". Does the general contractor know whats going on? These guys are a real problem in the construction industry and they make it tough honest people like you to compete. Good Luck, Keith
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us FHB readers must be square pegs in round holes. The first framing crew I hired 5 years ago were installing blocking in a pretty hooky method. I remembered some article by larry Haun or someone and mentioned it to them. The response was, "Fine homebuilding, I don't read that shit." After some discussion he agreed to install the blocking the way I wanted it. He frames for a local builder of $500k homes. (you know, the quality ones with the cheapest white vinyl windows money can buy.) I've visited the job sites and seen things like: hold-downs on a post, but the post is only toenailed to the floor beam. The inspector just signs every thing off and they keep getting away with it.
Darrell
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Matt, As a building official I can say it's imposible to watch every move some of these "hacks" make, but I can tell you when they have to come back and fix it and pay a penalty, it usually cures them. As an accomplished builder and master carpenter I have a phrase for these guys "they can't hold my hammer let alone carry my tool box". Does the general contractor know whats going on? These guys are a real problem in the construction industry and they make it tough honest people like you to compete. Good Luck, Keith
*Matt, this guy is a hack.
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I have been told here in Stafford County, VA the inspectors want anchor bolts or tie straps, but they now require the sills to be drilled so the tie straps come through the sill instead of being bent around the sill like I have seen in the past.
Yes, the frame inspector looks to see the nuts and washers.
*Good for you! Make the framers toe the line. When you're paying the bill, you have a right to say how it's done. There are many methods of producing the same product. It's a balancing act in two ways: to achieve the desired final product without compromising structural integriity or finished look, and in allowing the craftsman (used generally) to do his job without undue interference.About the post. Toenails will adequately hold it in place through shrinking, swelling and moisture in most circumstances. The post's job is to hold the weight above.Holddowns are mostly for "uplift." Uplift occurs in seismic and high wind situations. A few years ago, the seismic rating for the Puget Sound (NW Wash.) was increased, and now we install quite a few seismic holddowns in the concrete foundations (the most was 27 on a +/- 24' x 70' 2-story, incl. garage. Was rated for 90mph winds).
*The framing inspector SHOULD check for nuts and washers. I didn't think, 'til now, that anyone would be stupid enough to even consider it! Heard a story about a "framer" who didn't have nuts for the anchor bolts so he bent the bolts onto the mudsill with a sledge hammer, pinning it. Supposedly, he quipped "It's not going anywhere" and built on it.There's a possible solution to your tiestrap situation. Use an MA6. It's a chevron-shaped anchor with a strap at each end. No drilling, just nail the straps to the mudsill... just cut it to length. I think Simpson makes them. This may be difficult if you have no say in the foundation phase, though.Worst case scenario, contact the inspector and ask for their reasons and possible substitutes.
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Boy's I've got you all beat. We build custom homes in eastern Oklahoma in a fast growing small town. We do our own framing, trim, and cabinets because we're not comfortable subbing it out to most of the subs in this area. I was in a new spec home under construction in a newly developed " CLASSY " addition in town about a year ago. The house was a two story with a loft. The living room was open all the way up to the bottom pitch of the roof to the second floor ceiling above the loft. The " BUILDER " conquered this structural feat by going to the local truss shop and having 2x8 butted end to end with a 8"x8" plate to use for rafters/ceiling joists on two foot centers spanning 20 ft. on an 8/12 pitch. Needless to say the roof sagged severly before the drywall ever went up. The house passed inspection and was sold to some poor unspecting individual. We only have a mechanical inspection here . Think we could stand a little structural glance ever now and then. This is what we have to try to bid against. My rant took me away off the subject . P. S. We still use anchor bolts with nuts and washers.
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Next time he bends over to drill another bolt hole, sneak up behind him, place your nail gun about a half-inch behind his ear, and...Oh, geez, sorry...having another flashback...
*Another tale is of "hacks" simply bashing their mudsill onto the anchor bolts with a sledge! Was told to me as being true, as was the previous one.I hate to see people "taken." That's what it is when they pay going rate for substandard work. Adequate structural strength is the MINIMUM! Sometimes I think ALL house designs (including roof systems) should be reviewed by an experienced carpenter. You know some of these designers scratch a hole in the ground when they itch.One last story, heard from our building inspector...A plumbing contractor plumbed an apartment building, but only stubbed his pipes into the crawl space. Everything passed inspection and tenants moved in (and the plumber moved on). This lack of any connected plumbing wasn't discovered 'til several years later when tenants complained about waste water coming out the VENTS! It filled the crawl before anyone knew!
*I know it's got nothing to do with your codes but here "down under " we have fairly strict tie-down requirements. ( on the east coast at least ). Our wind codes were developed after Cyclone Tracy flattened most of Darwin in the 70's.The ratings vary from W33 to W65 depending on location. i.e. built to withstand winds of 33 and 65 meters per second ( cyclonic ).We are only in a W33 area and we have to bolt and strap beside every opening and at 1200 centres. Tie down must extend slab to roof ( naturally ).Most of us just use 12mm continuos threaded rod slab to top plate. To save stuffing around casting in bolts ( there is always one in the wrong place ) we stand the frame and trusses, brace off and then drill right through the plate into the slab, blow the holes out and epoxy the rods in.
*I agree with everyone on the nut & washer scam.I just started out on my own a couple of yrs ago,got hooked up with local lumberyard who also sells houses at turnkey price.I sub for him to build houses(start to finish).Okay, now the other side of the coin---.During backfilling of one house, the bag of nuts & washers must have gotten burried.I went to the lumberyard to get more from the G.C.HE SAID--"don't need 'em,we're not building a churh".He is concerned about bottom line, as this is turnkey,so another 5 bucks here,20 bucks there,etc. takes from his profit.After a short bout of persuasion I won my case and installed the nuts & washers.I have a genuine concern for quality & long lasting construction practices,so our relationship as G.C. and subcontractor has its moments, but I usually get my way about these types of situations.Now, after building 5 homes for this fellow, he has people requesting that I build there home for them.I think my building practices have paid off for me and also for this particular lumberyard, because he has sold more houses since I started subing for him.
*The problem though, is that the designer specified a hold-down at the bottom of the post and a T at the top. I didn't see his seismic or overturning plan but I assume he was trying to react to uplift. I don't think the framer should arbitrarily second guess him. There are quite a few other discrepencies between the plan and what's built on many homes I see. I believe the GC simply doesn't realise it. Darrell
*Wait Mike -- there was NO connection to the city sewer? It took 3 years to discover? Remarkable if no one got sick -- how'd they find someone to clean out the crawlspace?
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I was recently subbing for a framer in Easton, CT. The project was a new house which will probably sell for $600K +. (Hunting Ridge Road, might be even higher priced). Although there were anchor bolts in the foundation, the contractor simply drilled holes in the sill plates (which he doubled), to allow the plates to slip over the bolts. When I asked if he used washers and nuts, he laughingly replied that "We aren't building a church". Am I wrong in thinking that this is shoddy work? I've remodeled 200 year old houses which were built better than this one. Are the codes simply becoming lax?
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A good investigation of seismic and wind conditions in your locale will demonstrate exactly how important the anchors are. Have to agree with our Aussie friend. Here in the west and Northwest (except areas of OR), we are being REQUIRED to run cont. all thread from foundation (poured solid) to truss. Also, there are various Simpson brackets used at various locations for strength. Most common is a L bolting the all thread to a double 2x6 ext. wall.
If you are extra careful, you will have houses that will last through your next big quake (and after-shocks). Don't think the east has to worry? WRONG! The east coast is more susceptible to major damage from a smaller quake due to its relation with its lack of major mountains to disrupt the after shocks.
Here in Anchorage, AK, we see more damage caused by after shocks than by the initial jolt. Research the NorthRidge quake in S.CA. A little caution now will pay off long term, at least in peace of mind. Last I checked, even the psychics were having trouble at predicting the earths inner rumblings. You are definitely headed in the right direction, but I think a little extra curricular reading on winds and earth movement would help arm you for future arguments. Ask your g.c. if he would live in the house??