I’ve often faulted tool reviews for failing to evaluate cheap tools, such as those sold by Harbor Freight, under such names as Chicago, Pittsburgh, etc. This is the first of two such reviews I will submit, to address the issue.
I recently replaced my 4 1/2″ HF angle grinder with a Makita grinder. Was the switch worth it?
The HF costs, on sale, $10. You will have to spend another few dollars for the pin wrench to change the wheels. In former days, these grinders often came with unusual spindle threads; those days are gone, and the grinders come with standard 5/8-11 spindles.
From the start, the ‘on’ button was problematic. It got stuck in the ‘on’ position for a few months, and always seemed to take a bit of fuss afterward to make it work. In the end, it worked fine, but cold still have been approved upon. The switch is positioned on the top face of the barrel.
The tool had a noticeable screech to its’ operation, and you could feel vibration as the tool cut.
The back(or top) of the housing has a pair of ears, apparently to help you rest the tool ‘blade up’ while not in use, as the blade stopped spinning.
I recently purchased a Makita 9557PB grinder. This tool retails for about $75. The major difference between it, and the HF, is that this model has a paddle switch. Makita also markets a model with a ‘standard’ switch.
The ‘standard’ switch is mounted on the side – a more convenient location than the top – and has an actual detent and spring to lock the switch ‘on.’ Unlocking the switch by applying very light pressure is enough to allow you to turn it off.
The paddle switch is a marked improvement over most competitors. The switch does not project from the barrel, but is rather a large contoured ‘trigger.’ The safety lock swivels in the opposite direction of some, and is thus much more ‘user friendly.; I found operation to be natural and easy.
The barrel is rounded, and slightly smaller than those of other makes. This more comfortable barrel was why I chose Makita over other quality brands.
The tool seems to have less of a ‘twist’ at start-up. Even though the literature fails to mention anything about “soft start,’ the tool feels like it has one.
In cutting, the tool seemed to maintain its’ speed better. No vibration was noticeable. It actually seemed to cut smoother and faster.
The side handle mounts at a slight forward angle, as compared to the strict right angle of most. I found this to be less attractive – the handle seemed to get in the way more easily. Maybe I just need to get used to it.
The pin wrench used to change wheels is not a ‘standard’ pin wrench … lose it, and you’re in trouble.
VERDICT: I had no real complaints over the years I used the HF grinder. My occasional use suggested I might like a paddle switch … had I preferred the standard switch, I likely would not have looked at other grinders.
Is the Makita better? Yes, it is. Is it 5 times better? No. I’m happy I bought the Makita … but have no problems recommending the Harbor Freight grinder for the occasional user.
Safety Note: Use of the side handle on a grinder is at least as important as wearing safety glasses. You simply do not have the positive control you need without that handle.
Edited 12/5/2007 7:51 pm ET by renosteinke
Edited 12/5/2007 7:51 pm ET by renosteinke
Replies
i think all has to do with how much your going to use a tool to justify how much your going to spend. i will say this if you have a 10.00 power tool and the switch is stuck on,you should pitch it.you know it's stuck but your buddy doesn't.10.00 don't buy much at the emergency room.
i had a tool stolen one time with a switch stuck on. gave me great pleasure thinking what might of happened when the theif plugged it in.maybe he had it laying in his lap :] larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Every HF power tool I've seen sounded as if it had the bearings packed with sand before they shipped it.
I saw a big plunge router, same sound and a slight vibration too. Sounded like something bad waiting to happen.
Joe H
It can be hard to mitigate tool costs if one does not earn a living using them. I can only offer a consideration from the perspective of one who does.
Early on, I used to take the low price/inferior quality/ break and replace route. It seemed to make sense at the time primarily because of budget concerns . However, as my business built up and skill set increased I began to realize that these tools were lacking.
Invariably these tools failed in the middle of a job, stopping work flow and wasting time and money looking for a replacement or jury rigging a fix to continue. I also found that break and replace tools offered inferior performance, decreasing production and quite often I needed yet a another tool to "fix up" the work of these tools.
I began to look only at the mid and "professional" grade brands with repair networks and decent warranties. A move worthwhile, buying once with the expectation of longevity and repairability allows me to spend future tool monies on equipment that can expand my capabilities and offer more service.
I'm not saying I'm immune to the urge of upgrading a good tool now and again, though.
My Fein Multimaster for instance, the new one looks good with it's QuickIN changeover and other new features..... there's not a dang thing wrong with my older one and it's paid for itself many times over... but if I decide to go for it, I know that I can offset some of the cost by selling the old one. I get a new quality tool and the new owner of the older model gets an excellent tool value. Try that with a break and replace tool.
The intermittent non-pro tool user needs to look at tool "cost" based on the expected use of the tool over the lifetime of the tool. I have several mid-quality tools (Ryobi, Craftsman, Makita) that I've used "infrequently" (after a heavy dose of initial frequent use) that are 20-30 years old.... they still function well and "feel good" when I put them to work.
Today's tools of the same brand might need to be judged a little differently due to the manufacturing/marketing/corporate restructuring dilemma but IMHO Makita has been the most consistent in quality and is pretty darn close to "pro-grade" in terms of performance and value.
Buy a decent tool first (if you can) and enjoy working with it for essentially the rest of your tool using life.
Like Joe, I always hated the sound of my HF angle grinder. Like yours, the switch died.
I wired in a toggle switch and went back to work. Didn't take long before the bevel gear in there disintegrated. Pot metal. Looked to me that they knew what they were doing, installing a short-lived switch. Whole tool was just about that quality.
Makita was my choice too, several of their line live here. Much nicer to listen to. Then I fried it, over-working it. Now have a 7" Milwaukee, a beast. And bought a replacement Makita, my primary grinder. 5 times longer-lasting than the HF? Yup. And there's a real gear in there, I looked.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
HF vs Makita?
Seriously, do you use these tools for the purpose they were designed, or simply to brag about how cheep you can buy things.
Both are POS's.
When I want to seriously do some AG work, I pull out the Metabo. Costs 3 times what the Makita does, but it's worth every penny.
I firmly believe that cheep tools are the most expensive method to get the job done. Somehow, somewhere, someway that cheep tool's gonna cost you. Longer to get the job done, more repair costs, waste of time fooling with the cheepie, more risk of personaly injury, faster depreciation, etc.
Go to the tool store and simply hold the beast in one hand and turn it on. Try it with all models under consideration. Which gives you the best feel, is smoother, and feels safer?
Cheep drills, grinders, saws and such are simply means for keeping the recycling and repair centers in business.
A fair question ... There is no doubt that "cheap" tools exist. While they usually cost about 1/3 the price of a 'quality' tool, I've seen the difference be as high as 1/15. With that differential, it's hard to ignore them. Sure, you can assume that there's a difference ... the real questions that need to be answered are:
- Is a tool that costs triple really three times better?; and,
- Do the cheap tools work at all? I have found a few other reasons for having cheap tools on the truck. Among my reasons:
- A $75 tool on the truck beats the heck out of the $350 tool at the parts house (simply because you can't afford it);
- In using the cheap tool, you get an idea of whether you really have a need for the tool. No sense getting an expensive 'trailer queen;'
- In use, you learn what features and accessories you really prefer. Better than buying the wrong expensive tool; and,
- There's a lot less at risk from lending out, or use by less trained folks. No one ever steals Harbor Freight; I just might paint all my stuff bright orange! In general, IF a tool proves its' worth, I replace it with a quality tool as soon as it wears out. If a tool is used only very rarely, that cheap tool may be around for a long time. Therefore, there is a role for 'cheap' tools. That is why I wish they were considered in the usual tool reviews ... as a benchmark, if nothing else. In this instance - the angle grinder - I found I used the tool far more than I ever expected. I have yet to find a competitor who keeps one on his truck. Had I started out with, say, "THE BEST," I would have purchased the wrong tool (for me). Indeed, were it not for my deciding to 'treat' myself after a series of good jobs, I'd still be using the HF grinder- happily. The tool easily makes my "best $15 ever spent" list.(Especially now that the switch is working OK). A final note: I try very hard not to have any particular bias for, or against, any make. No brand loyalty for me! Yet, it seems that my last several major tool purchases happened to be Makita. In each case, Makita 'beat out' someone else - often to my complete surprise. In my examination of competing makes, it is also common for a 'quality' make to have, IMO, badly flubbed a feature. This happened here, where one such had a badly flawed 'safety' that made the paddle a PITA to operate.Edited 12/6/2007 10:27 am ET by renosteinke
Edited 12/6/2007 10:29 am ET by renosteinke
I have used and abused a number of cheap 4 and 1/2 inch and 5 inch grinders. I use them for pointing and for tile among other things. The cheap ones don't last for me, they get choked with duat and then start to wobble and vibrate. I even used the compressor to clean them out a couple to times per day. The egeronomics of the cheap tools isn't as good.
So, I finally bought a 4 and 1/2 inch Flex grinder, wow, what a difference. Then I picked up a new Hilti for a very attractive price. I won't go back. I like the Flex best, it gets into corners and tight spots a bit better than the Hilti. Yes, they were more expensive than the other brands, a lot move than the HF and Cumins and other stuff I'd had. I still use a compressor to blow them out at the end of the day, and i don't baby them. The Flex is about three years old and the Hilti about 2.
Flex? That's new to me ... can you post a link?
Here is the link you requested: http://flex-tools.de/gb/index.php. I understand that the brand has been purchased by Porter Cable.
Thank you for the link! It is surely a make I would have considered, had I but known .... All is not lost, though. I see that they do have some other tools, unique to the American market, that I will find useful.
"While they usually cost about 1/3 the price of a 'quality' tool, I've seen the difference be as high as 1/15. With that differential, it's hard to ignore them."I can ignore them just fine. I'm a professional and don't have the time or inclination to mess around with junk. When your HF grinder breaks in the middle of a job and you have to drive 40 miles each way to get a new one it suddenly isn't cheap. If you have to stop at the ER on the way it can become the most expensive tool you ever owned. A $75.00 Makita is just about as cheap as I want to go. Even good tools are cheap these days so why bother with junk?
I'd like to base conclusions on facts ... not doctrine. When you lack the funds, things don't get bought. I strongly suspect even the most die-hard tool snob is driving around in a Chevy ... rather than a Rolls. It might be hard to believe, but there are plenty of folks on construction sites making $10/hr. Whether a tool costs an hours wages, or a days wages, makes a BIG difference. As a rule, I've had at least as good luck, in terms of reliability, with the HF as with the brand name stuff. Indeed, I had one job kill my Milwaukee drill; I was able to finish the job with a Harbor Freight tool. (My experiences with Milwaukee, their rep, their distributor, their repair shop, and the vendor are for another discussion). More to the point .... while some Harbor Freight products are proven junk, that conclusion has not been true across their line. As Fox News says: I report, you decide.
Who would be making $10.00 and be expected to buy their own tools? I'm in a low wage area and pay day labor more than that. Like I said, the initial cost of a tool is a small part of the real cost. There would be no relative value in driving a Rolls over a Chevy since they are both reliable vehicles. There's a huge gulf between cheap tools and good tools.
Well, you've missed my point. As for angle grinders ... the cheap HF tool performed adequately for me, for many years. It passes on both 'reliability' and 'durability' counts. Whatever else it may be .... 'value' is a better adjective than 'junk.' That's why I believe that tool reviews need to include 'cheap' tools in their testing.
If you are a HO and want a once in awhile tool I suppose it is an ok idea to use cheap (junk IMO) stuff.
If you work on your own and want to risk the "stuck on" switch it is certainly a free country as to your valuation of the item. Hope no one else picks it up, plugs it in and is surprised. The lawsuit might be expensive.
When you outfit a number of trucks with tools for paid employees to use it is unadvisable to use tools that "stick on" as one guy gets hurt and the comp bills can multiply X10 in my state. Not much of a savings there. DanT
No, I didn't miss your point. Just because you bought a cheap tool that sort of worked for you means nothing. if it had broken on day one you'd have a different story. There actually were people who liked their Yugos. That didn't change the fact that it was junk and it sure wasn't cheap.
I've killed my share of cheap tools just as a DIYer, nevermind professional use.It's such a stupid, helpless feeling when you realize, suddenly, that you're holding a piece of scrap.
Edited 12/6/2007 7:15 pm ET by Biff_Loman
I used buy the cheap chinese grinders they did a good job last one I bought I paid 5 bucks for. So the Mak for 80 bucks I can buy a lot of cheap grinders for the price of one Mak. Though now I use a pneumatic grinder. I have to wait for the compressor to catch up but it works fine for me.
Edited 12/6/2007 7:20 pm by Sancho
I had one of those air grinders. My air compressor couldn't keep up with it. I don't get running an expensive compressor at 18 amps that can't keep up instead of using a 10 amp grinder that runs all day without stoping. Course the air grinders stay pretty cool and are lighter, so that's a plus.
When did Makita become a #### tool line? Or is it just their small angle grinder thats ####?Live by the sword, die by the sword....choose your sword wisely.
I don run mine all day. Just quick cuts here and there when I need it. If I did have to run it all day well..Id get a bigger compressor or go back to my 5 buck grinder.
I have owned 3 makitas and 1 dewalt RA grinders, they were all garbage and died what I consider premature deaths. But the enviroment I work in is not nice, we get almost 100" of rain a year and sometimes I work on boats in salt water. Everything takes a beating, usually high quality tools is the only way to go . The one exception is HF grinders, buy 2 or 3 at a time. Ain't nothing precision about them, and they sound like the devil.
Ever seen your helper leave a grinder on the beach and then remember it after the tide has come in? You get over a 15 dollar tool pretty quick when you have aspare or 2. Might have to kill someone if it was a Metbo or similar.
"Seriously, do you use these tools for the purpose they were designed, or simply to brag about how cheep you can buy things.
Both are POS's."
Oh ... "for the purpose" ... U do include tasks like tile installs?
"When I want to seriously do some AG work, I pull out the Metabo. Costs 3 times what the Makita does, but it's worth every penny."
and that would be the wrong tool for daily tile installs.
and as luck would have it ....
the makita grinder excell at such tasks.
maybe U should follow your own advice as laid out to the OP.
realize that other people don't do the exact same work with the exact same tools as U do.
same reason that 7" Old Mil would be a little silly to throw in the tile tools bin ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I've been thru 5 Makita grinders. Wore out three and two I had to return because the things wouldn't turn off. I'm quite familar with them.
But let's talk about those little tile jobs. Gotta switch it on and off frequently, maybe just a hair here and there?
The Metabo will blow the Makita out of the water. Try one.
And I throw it into the tool bucket when I'm done.
I've been setting tile with a little makita for over 10 years.
had it rebuilt once ...
a year or so outta warrenty ... tool guy still didn't charge me.
and I burned it out overworking it doing demo work I shouldn't have been using it on. Bought a 4.5 Milwaukee the day I burned it out ... and that's been the demo grinder ever since.
if U've burned out 5 ... U should learn the correct way to use you tools.
or follow your own advice ... use the correct tool for the job.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
"if U've burned out 5 ... U should learn the correct way to use you tools."
I didn't say i burnt out 5. I said I wore out 3 and 2 wouldn't shut off.
Both of those two were replaced under warranty. The second, I had only used for two minutes. The manager at Tool King gave me full credit towards whatever I wanted (while mentioning that 'now we know how Makita is built') and handed me a Metabo. He said, "try this."
All I had to do was turn it on. The Makita - I had to warn them to hang on while they tried for themsleves that the switch wouldn't go off. The Metabo - well, don't listen to me. Wadda I know?
Just turn one on.
Thats what I use the air grinder for. Quick little cuts especially tile
what air flow you need with that?
80-90 psi. But like I said its for a couple of quick cuts and I do have to wait for the comp to catch up.
Edited 12/7/2007 3:42 pm by Sancho
“I've been thru 5 Makita grinders….Wore out three and two I had to return because the things wouldn't turn off…â€
“The Metabo will blow the Makita out of the waterâ€
If you trashed the Makitas using them daily and found them lacking, then apparently these tools were not sufficient for your work.
Perhaps you should have upgraded to the Metabo after the first Makita died and not wasted your time and money on four more Makitas.
“HF vs Makita?.... Both are POS'sâ€
I know we’re talking grinders here and I’ve not used grinders from either brand(mine is a Hitachi) but if you are declaring HF and Makita as POS’s in a blanket statement then I declare hog wash, particularly with Makita.
Aside from a handful of hydraulic jacks, all I have from HF is two dust collectors. One is a 1HP that I’ve used for over 20 years, and the 2HP is about 5 years old, both are Central Machinery and adequate for what I use them for….. my only comment would be is that the old one is substantially better in terms of construction.
My line of work (remodeling, home building, cabinetry, etc.) requires a bunch of diverse tools, some get used frequently others not so much.
Makita makes up several in my collection...LS1013 slide- saw, 9227C buffer, HM1304B breaker, BO5021 disc sander, N1900B Plane, DA391D angle drill, Makita LXT202 18V LXT Lithium-Ion 2-Pc. Combo Kit and a little DP3720 3/8" VSR drill
All but the slide-saw, breaker, buffer and Li-IONs have been upgraded to other brands primarily because of feature sets…. but they all still get used for specific jobs and perform well.
All but the buffer, breaker and Li-IONs have 5 years or more on them and none have gone to the repair shop. The Li-IONs live on the truck that little vsr drill, which is getting onto 30 years just hogged out a bunch of pocket holes last week.
Edited 12/7/2007 1:49 pm ET by TomE
I see several misreads of what I had posted, but nevertheless, all I got to say is simply turn a Metabo 4.5" "Ergo" grinder on.
Doing that made me walk away from 10 satisfactory years of using Makitas.
Nothing more than turning it on. To me, that in itself made it worth over twice as much as the Makita.
That Tool King manager I mentioned earlier, he told me what makes these things different is they are designed and built in Germany under the EU health and welfare rules defining tool design. They must reduce repetitive motion injuries, vibration, and other poor posture problems thru design. And they have!
Those Makita and other grinders immediately turn their 6 or 8 or whatever amps on all at once and the tool kicks in response. We've learned to deal with such by good grips and knowledge. The Metabo starts slowly and quickly ramps up without any noticable kick. I mean a gurl can onehandly start these things with her non-writing hand.
And they are smooth in the operation. I love the no tool changing knob. The blade guard does aspirate a bit. And maybe it's the way I use it, but the head does get hot to the touch quickly.
But you can handle these with one hand they're so smooth.
I agree whole-heartedly ... Metabo makes a superb, exceptionally durable grinder. I would not criticize anyone for using Metabo! I did, in fact, consider Metabo. I chose the Makita simply because it is slightly smaller - enough to matter in my hands. The extreme durability for which Metabo is known was not so important to me, as I use my grinder only occasionally. According to the Makita literature, they paid special attention to keeping dust and grit out of the grinder. Not mentioned ... so I can't be certain ... but the Makita seems to have some sort of 'soft start.' I do notice a lot less 'twist' on start-up, as compared to the HF tool. What did surprise me, in my comparison, was that the tool comparison was not the 'slam dunk' I expected. The HF provides, IMO, exceptional value. It is not 'complete junk.'
This contrasts to certain other HF (or other discount) tools .... which I promise to write about in the near future.
Thanks for taking the time to report on the grinders.
I have several Bosch and Makita grinders, and one HF that I had to retire because I thought it was going to fly apart. The trigger was sticky, as well. It now sits on the odd-tool shelf in my shop, waiting for the day I either decide to use it, or lose it.
But thanks again, it sparked some lively discussion.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.