Another thread about fogged double pane windows – cheap fix?
I have searched, I have read, I have searched some more.
I realize there is no *good* solution to double pane windows with compromised seals, but I have three in my circa-1986 house. Does the “drill two holes in opposing corners” thing work? I realize this will theoretically ruin the efficiency of the windows, but let’s assume this is something I can deal with in an otherwise ridiculously-insulated passive solar house. The windows have condensation between the panes all the time, and it’s super annoying from an aesthetic perspective. I will replace the sashes some day but not soon.
If this is worth a try, what size holes should I drill and what kind of drill bit? I hope it’s cheap because I am a broke law student. In other news, I hope you all are doing well and staying busy. I haven’t had much time to check in here lately but things seem pretty slow – I notice that some photo threads of mine are still on the first page of that forum which is pretty sad.
Thanks for any tips.
-J
Replies
jesse
If the glass is etched, then the dry fog will be what you see.
The passive solar will be compromised in whatever energy is lost trying to get through the now non clear glass.
But, you've priced out replacing the glass only on these sash?
Don't know about drilling the holes.
as far as busy? Been since middle of June. Now comes the time when the bath I thought I might have is now not going to happen.
Called the dr. and left the message that I could come tomorrow mid day and repair/rehang the 2 large wall cabinets coming off their wall........................
evidently it's my fault that to remove (after removing the crown so I can replace-as it's stained and match the 12 y.o. cabs.) the 2 cabs, repair the damaged backs so they might stay together and rehang (with crown) might cost 2-3 hundred...........
so, beats me what will happen mid-day, might be time to go play nine.
You drill the holes open to the outside (except perhaps in the far south). Two holes may be a hair better than one, but one hole is all that should be necessary. You should loosely plug the holes with, eg, fiberglass insulation to keep bugs and dirt out.
Of course, it can be a trick to drill the holes without breaking the glass. They can be drilled through the glass (if you have the skills), or through the metal separator (though then you have to figure out how to get the hole to "communicate" with the outside. I've never tried either, so I'll leave those issues up to others.
I'd think that holes won't help. Warm moist air from inside will go in and condense more water. I say replace them. Should be able to order low-e units for like ... maybe $3 per foot.
Let it out .... sorta ... also lets it in.
In the winter the dewpoint of the outside air is much lower than the dewpoint of the inside air. If outside air gets into the middle it won't fog (in the winter, at least).
Yes, Dan, I know.
There's already a hole, that's why there is condensation, the glass is no longer sealed. Replace the sealed glass.
Tried it. Didn't work.
Drilling the holes requires a diamond drill bit and patience. However, even after a couple of weeks it didn't change the appearance of the fog, in either the badly fogged or the minimally fogged test window I chose.
Tried filling windows with vinegar and soaking overnight before draining. Didn't work, so I tried Calcium Lime Rust remover the same way. Didn't work.
Tried taking glass out and cutting the seal. The minerals inside were rock-hard. Using a razor scraper and CLR, I was able to clear about 10" by 10" of window pane in about half an hour. Mind you, that is on only one of the two panes of the double paned window. Quick arithmetic told me that the value of my time was worth much more than the $60 per window I had been quoted to replace the glass.
I am now enjoying my newly-installed clear windows!
The "minerals" you're talking
The "minerals" you're talking about are the "low E" coating on the inside of the glass, after moisture has destroyed it. In fact, it's possible that the original problem in your case wasn't moisture, but rather a poor quality coating that deteriorated over time due to UV damage.
Insulated windows have always developed deposits when the seal was compromised. Well before low-e was invented. It is probably due to the dessicant in the frame.
Y'er "fog" is actually etched
Y'er "fog" is actually etched glass.
You will NOT be able to clear it up by drilling holes.
Even using a heat gun and knife and separating the panes and cleaning will still show "fog"
To the best of my research (over the last 20 years), the "fog" is either an enzyme etching of the glass or a silicate/O2/N2 reaction, both leave a pebbled surface on the glass, looks like the surface of a basketball under magnification. It is literally etched, nothing short of polishing with abrasives (e.g rouge) will remove the 'fog'.
On my own windows (80% of which have developed "fog", installed in 1972), I remove the insulated glass and have replaced with 2 separate glazings using epdm strips for 'seal'. 1" air spacing.
Most of the increase 'R' value of dual panes comes from the surface boundary layer vs the seal, e.g. a well installed storm window is more effective than an air filled "sealed' insulated galss panel.
If ya wnat to replace the insulated glass, Ar filled will not 'fog' if the seal stays intact.
Well, we have had fogged windows that were clearly due to moisture, since the fog would come and go with temperature changes. Fog that is permanent, and doesn't disappear when you, say, heat the pane with a hair dryer, is probably etching or some such, as you suggest.
fogged double paned windows
Hi - have no expertise in this, but I do have a large sliding glass door which had the same problem until it fell out of the track one day a few years ago, & shattered the interior pane. I removed the remaining glass from that panel & have had no problems since . I guess this is what congress would call the "nuclear option", but just thought I'd put it out there. P.S. this is my 1st post, so go easy on me folks!
My take on a cheep fix isn't free - it will cost you in the time and effort put into it. Remove the glass and separate the panes...clean as best as possible and use new seals with the old glass. Any glass supply outfit can provide a variety of widths of the stuff - silicone over the outside is often used as a secondary seal....a breather tube isn't needed since you are at the same elevation as the place the windows are constructed at.
Glass shops won't normally do this kind of work because they have to fart around with crappy old glass and they don't make any money providing crappy old glass for moderate $$ even if works as good as the new stuff.
If your glass is crap and doesn't look right I'd get used glass (often free if you look around) and cut it down to fit.
If you want argon, low e, blaw, blaw, blaw then you need to save your pennies and do it right.
Cheers!
The real fix is cheap
I just had a dual pane assembly for a Velux sklylight custom made w/ Low E, tempered over laminated, it was around $60. Put it in in about 15 minutes.
I avoided this for years thinking new glazing would be $$$. I was wrong.