Curious if any of you are using 20-20? For what applications? Pros and cons? Cost? I’m using CA for general work, and Ecabinet for cabinet design but neither seems very well suited for K&B, which I’m doing more and more of…
Thanks!
PaulB
Curious if any of you are using 20-20? For what applications? Pros and cons? Cost? I’m using CA for general work, and Ecabinet for cabinet design but neither seems very well suited for K&B, which I’m doing more and more of…
Thanks!
PaulB
This series of connected-barn-style structures have been rebuilt and updated for a modern feel.
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Replies
20-20 what ??? I have no clue what you're talking about.
Not that that's unusual...
(-:
It's design software BH, very popular with kitchen and bath designers...
I thought he was talking about 'mad dog' 2020...
View Image_______________________________________________________________
my tagline has fallen and can't get up
MD 20-20 fortified wine...
Mad Dog!!!
#$&%(*$#
Please excuse our mess....
Tagline under reconstruction...
I use 20/20, but I run a cabinet business. It is a double edge sword, kind of like NEXTEL service. When it works...its great, when it doesn't....you want to smash your computer with the nearest heavy object.
My biggest complaint is Support/Service, which is terrible. In the past month I have spent approx. 4-5 hours on the phone w/support. The kicker is I have not even upgraded to their newest version (which I hear is a nightmare as all of their new releases have been).
Upside is, if you do alot of "manufactured" cabinets it is probably the best option out there. If you build your own cabinets, it also could be a valuable tool for producing floor plans, elev., and perspectives.
Thanks! I'm not sure I want to get involved with poor support, it's too tough to learn a new CAD program under the best of circumstances. Do you have any recollection of the cost?
PaulB
You probably know that Google Sketchup is free, and that I have been doing all my work in it since becoming a user, which includes a lot of kitchen and baths.
But by and large, we don't make the cabs and built-ins we include in our installations. We buy them KD, or sometimes assembled. SU is the means for doing the space planning, then sizing all the cabs. I have asked my suppliers to download the free SU viewer, so I can then just send them the files for communicating quote requests and final designs.
Yes, I have Sketchup Gene, thanks. I'm overall happy with CA and Ecabs (an awesome program overall) but like anything else they have strengths and weaknesses (or maybe it's me... actually it probably is) ;)
PaulB
Actually Gene, Google Sketchup is only free if you are using it for yourself. Once you start using it as a business tool, you are supposed to pay for it.If you are showing your sketchup renderings and designs to clients, you are breaking the terms of the user agreement.Sketchup for commercial purposes is free like borrowing your buddy's AutoCad cd's and installing it on your computer is free.
Oops. What do I do about the copies of CA, Acad, and Cadkey I have in my box?
Whatever, it sure doesn't hurt my feelings, but you continually post sketchup created images of projects you are working on and then later post about how sketchup is free. I wouldn't say anything if you would stop insisting that it is free. It isn't, at least for what you use it for.
Jesse, I've actually got the paid-for SU Pro 5 loaded in my box, but since I learned on the freebie and have it all customized with ruby scripts, hot keys, and all, I haven't had the urge to go to Pro 5 yet. Haven't even had a need for the added features like sandbox, scale printing, interchange with other packages, etc.
And even though I've had CA for years, a real licensed version, I've never learned it.
I have used 2020 for ten+ years and have always found it to be a good program. We have a kitchen and bath remodeling business.
The main drawback is the $4K price tag. (and that's american not canadian!)
We are running their latest and greatest and have had no problems converting old files to the new version.
I actually gripe about the $400 we spend every year in support because we have only had to use it once.
One of the main reasons I like the program is that we can install the cabinet catalogues from our various cabinet and plumbing manufacturers so that we can present to our clients a very accurate view of how their kitchen will look.
It does a great job on kitchens but is still weak on bathrooms. The program is incredibly easy to use and comes with tutorials.
good luck
sully
One of the main reasons I like the program is that we can install the cabinet catalogues from our various cabinet and plumbing manufacturers so that we can present to our clients a very accurate view of how their kitchen will look.
I'm curious for a number of reasons. Could you please elaborate on the statement? How do you install the cabinet and plumbing catalogues?
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
If you are familiar with CAD, the terms "libraries" or "blocks" mioght be more familiar to you
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If you are familiar with CAD
I'm not; and that class I was going to take cancelled due to lack of interest. Someone here was gracious enough to give me his Turbocad Deluxe although I haven't played with it yet. (I'd say who it was but I'm not sure that the man. allows you to give it to other users)
I was guessing that the cabinet companies would supply a cd of their products to import into 20/20.
That sound about right?
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Have you been to the 20-20 website? Fabulous stuff. Go and see, look around and do some gee-whizzes, and after doing so, you'll find out what the catalogueing is all about.
Thanks Gene, I'll do that.
You never got back to me about the TV lift or slides or whatever.
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Basically the manufacturer will produce software either on a disc or at a website that we can then download and implant into the 2020 program. We represent 4 different cabinet lines and have all of their catalogues installed on our 2020.
What results is an electronic version of their products which are reproduced either in black and white line drawings, or full color renditions.
The program employs a drag and drop feature which makes placing cabinets into the design easy. There are many features and modifications you can use to manipulate the cabinet to be what you need for the design(such as setting an exact cut down length or changing door styles).
sully
Thanks, that's what I figured.
I've seen it in use a few years ago when I was doing installs for a retailer. My go to guy could whip out a kitchen from a decent sketch in 30 mintes or so.
What if a manufacturer did not have a library to integrate into 20/20. Would it be possible to do it manually?
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Not as far as I know. I believe the catalogues are assembled by 2020 for any manufacturer which pays themto do so.
You probably would not be able to write the script and import all of the graphics necessary for a complete catalogue.
We have carried cabinet lines in the past which did not have a 2020 catalogue. We simply used another cabinet catalogue and still were able to present an acceptable rendition of the kitchen.
The advantage of having the specific manufacturers catalogue is that if you want you can price out the project from within 2020. You are able to set pricing levels and markups, even freight and installation costs.
A couple of our cabinet lines offer monthly updates on the web for their 2020 catalogues so that the most current info is contained in our program.
sully
That's one of the things I liked most about it. I've been looking into importing DWG files and the like into CA or Ecab but it seems very complicated. Four grand? Youchhhhhhhhhhh... not this month.
I recently tried to use a 20/20 tutorial from the web and one from the manual and found both completely useless and impossible. You couldn't load one onto the other.
I called 20/20 and the guy I spoke to agreed with me and told me that, ironically, 20/20 had won an award for their tutorial!
I can pay $350.00 for a local community college's one-night-five-week course or 20/20 will send the course instructor one-on-one for a half day for $500.00.
Kowboy
Edited 10/20/2006 3:25 pm ET by Kowboy
I was fortunate in that I learned 2020 on the 5.1 version a few years ago. The 8.? version is more complex. If you are able to attend a class or two it would be very beneficial.
I did a short class at KBIS up in Chicago when the newer version first came out. I found it to be very helpful.
I think the instructor has much to do with how well the information is presented. I have been fortunate in that I have always been able to find a knowledgeable instructor.
sully
Ugh! 20-20 is one of the few programs that made CabinetVision "look good"--at least in the application to which oar I was previously chained.
It was not bad if a person had a relatively simple "pallette" of cabinet lines/designs. Once that library was built, it was simple enough that a salesman could drag-n-drop cabinets into a kitchen. I was a bit less fun if you needed to do something not in the pallette, though (filling knee spaces, a raised-panel end for an island, that sort of thing).
It was also a real bear in a networked environment, as it was O/S-specific. Now, that's years & years ago, so it could be different (but, it still gives me a twitch).