I am looking into joining the union. Can anybody tell me how to start????
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UUhhhhhhhhmmmmm..............Talk to the union? Ask them what their procedure is for your local hall?
You might get more responses with more specific questions, and/or if you post what city you're in.
I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
Right now i am a carpenter for the air force. I got a year left and i really havent decided where i want to live. Do you get good benifits and healthcare for your family and stuff
fageddabowda union.
look here http://www.dyncorprecruiting.com, click "other positions".
you'll probably make better money you being in the military, etc.......
Yeah I have heard about contractors like them. Do you work for them?
no, and I'm interested in what you heard about them.
I have heard you make really good money sometimes tax free. I have also heard you get free plane tickets and stuff.
As far as pay and benefits, that will depend on your specific location and hall. In our neck of the woods, a journeyman carpenter makes around $27-28 per hr. with benefits. But there isn't that much work out there for the union guys, and most are only working 6 months a year. Also, if working with wood and doing finish work is your thing, these guys are mainly doing steel stud work, heavy construction formwork, etc. Our local carpenters union is really hurting and have actually tried to get us to join, but I don't want to give up any control over my people. They recently came up with a lower rate for residential work, but I can imagine the response from a prospective new home customer when they find out I'm using union employees to build their house. They wont even wait for the price before heading to my competitors.
Bish
around my neck of the country ,if you like corruption,nepotism, the peter principal in action, the formation of bad working habits then join the union......sorry but the benny's, and the decent paycheck is a shortsighted goal.......find a craftsman and learn and revel in pride for the rest of your life.........bear
Edited 12/9/2002 8:04:14 PM ET by the bear
Is there any good peole left out there that are willing to take young guys like myself under there wing?
yes a.j. there are if you look around everyone is primarily jump on the hi- tech band wagon which makes finding good help (tell me you havent heard this before) next to impossible to find. take a drive around in some nice neighborhoods than stop by around 8 a.m. everyone's working by than, look for cleanliness and a sense of order, well kept personal and a friendly willing to talk to you but not to much there working, talk to the foreman or lead man and get some info "are they hiring","do they have alot of work", and very important ask " do you have alot of personal turnover". than find where the office is walk in and ask to make an appointment for employment. two things that make an impression and are powerful on there own1) resume2) pictures have them ready. and start your dialogue...... basic s**t and i can gaurantee if you have these with a good presentation you'll get your foot if not your azz in the door. the rest is up to you.... goodluck......bear
thanks for the good info bear!
Bears right. Look for somebody that ask for a resume. That knocks about 70% of the "tradesmen" looking for work out of the picture. You don't want to be working with folks that can't put a resume together. And stay away from development companies, high-end look with cheap materials. If the company you're working for is trying hide something from it's client, imagine what they would do to you.
The union? NO paid sick days , holidays, etc. Work maybe 6 months a year and if you get caught working non-union, you're screwed.
Scott
Edited 12/12/2002 9:01:31 PM ET by SWDD
I'm not gonna try and dissuade you from joining a union....and with the military background.......you might be the perfect fit.....but I will say not all non-union residential carpentry is like the union guys seem to think it is.
There's plenty good and bad on both sides of the fence...all depends where ya put yourself.
I know for a fact..because I've worked for a coupla of them....and have offers from others....that there are plenty of small/midsize companies out there..at least around here..that treay ya like a real working person. As in......40hrs/wk. Semi-paid bennies(most people pay some part). Paid holidays. Paid vacation. Etc....etc.
The unions not the only place to get a 401K. All ya gotta do is shop around.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
c'mon down.. i like former military.. and ambitious young peopleMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
oh yeah? where you at?
damn son, cain't u read ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
haha yeah i seen that. Never been out to to new england. Lived in wisonsin florida and now north dakota.
you are gunna have to learn him to read first Mikeeeeeeee LOL!Tamara
aj- you cant go wrong in rhode island there are a great community of new england building practices going on there, places like watch hill ,newport, east side of providence for a little state there some decent money there which translate's to houses which means......$$$$$,and you cant beat the summers in new england ....bear
i take it you live out there bear?
Edited 12/9/2002 10:12:29 PM ET by actionjasken
i was brought up in rhode island now living in long island but go back in forth ,if ......i had my drutthers rhode island would be the last place i'd be.... a place called sakonnet and little compton that would my gods little green acre......... but i'm self employed in the belly of the beast , new yawk...... i have a serious love/hate relationship with. if mike's truly serious come take a look see , it maybe a good fit.......
I am sure it would take me some getting used to there. But like you said it might be worth a shot.
so how big of crew do you have?
me plus twoMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
So you guys stay pretty busy then?
everyone's busy now.. that'l change when the economy goes in the dumper .. and then the scratchin and gouging will start again...
lessee.. started in business in '75.. tail end of the nixon recession..
lasted until the boom & bust of the '80's.. tehn the failure of teh banks and credit unions killed building.. which lasted until about '97 around here.. been pretty sweet sice then.. but what goes up always comes down..
we're in better shape to get thru the next cycle that some others... but it's never easy.. we're always reinventing ourselves...
what unit are you in.... what's you MOS ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
i was in 16th civil engineering squadren for four years now 319th civil engineering squadren. My AFSC is 3E351 Structral specialist (capenter mason sheetmetal roofer welder) do it all lol
feel free to shoot me an email sometime at [email protected]
Yeah, don't be shortsighted.Forget about trying to find a decent paying job,with health insurance,maybe a pension to retire on some day.That's good advice.
RI is one of the biggest union states there is.. but the jobs are hard to get.. and almost NONE of it is residential.....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
mike i was working up in R.I. in the early 90's and the union work took a real hard hit i was working on the east side with an excellent finish crew , and most of these guy's worked out of a shop that was real established and they just up and shut the doors. 90% of the on the job conversation was about that and there was some real bad blood there . have things re-coup at all with the last rally?? how about now?? that is the one thing i noticed around there with union work if the proverbial dog gets kicked the union work seems to be a memory. but the established residential market seems to keep on ticking. how are things up there now??...... bear
bear.. most of the union shops are gone.. the big guys usually have two companies.. one union and one non..
i always worked management in the union companies when i started out.. got a lot of respect for the union carps..
now the big dig in boston sucked all of the union guys out of ri.. but they'll be back.. filling in , working non-union and keeping their card in effect.. waiting for a call from the hallMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
here's a site, with RI union contacts.. Carps local 94 is listed
http://www.gy.com/biz/813930/401.htmMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
where do you work?
A. J.
I was in for 6 years and it was rough. a buddy of mine is still in and works about 4 months a year. he is a good carpenter. in this local it isnt how good you are but who you know. im lucky i work for a goor contractor plenty of work and good pay. theres good ones out there . just look around , the union paints a nice picture . there ok if your in to starveing to death.
goodluck
framer
How do you find a good contractor to work for?
if the union wants the guys to get $27-28 a hour, how do your get any business?? I would think that ones a customer see's your price they would go to your compeditor. I dont see how the union compets aginst the non-unions.
Move to Massachusetts and you'll find out!
A. J.
check his refrences. look at there jobs equipment: ask around the lumber yards. there are plenty of good ones out there it just takes a little leg work. when in the interveiw make sure they offer what you want. if you find one your interested ask his carpenters what they think and how long they have worked for him.i found the co. i work for by going to the the site were they were working. i guess a little luck helps to. also check with developers they usually know who is going strong.
goodluck
framer
hey! Thanks for the good info!
My Friend, exiting the military and joining the civilian workforce will not be a simple transition.
So you want to be a civilian carpenter huh... Got a truck, got tools, got nails, got shovel, got sedge hammer... Do you even know what a cats paw looks like...
Well, thats what you're going to run in to when you hit the bricks. If you're ready for that and think you can beat the odds then you're the kind of person that it takes to make a carpenter......
Go for it.
Yep I got the tools the truck and the will power
Go for it. You'll do just fine, union or not. Do you drink... Oh, sorry thats the painters union..... Carpenters don't drink.... LOL...
Best of luck..
Go to your local union hall or regional council (find them in the phone book) and ask to join. They should sign you up, and you'll probably get credit for time in the service. Some of what's been said in previous replies has a grain of truth, but like so many things there's good and bad. Personally, I like my union work. I'm on Long Island (New York), work an average of 40 weeks a year, scale now is $32 pay plus medical, perscription, dental, vision, pension, annuity (savings), and vacation pay. Most of our work is commercial, but that doesn't mean it's all metal stud, sheetrock, and acoustic ceilings. We do plenty of woodwork in places like Banana Republic, Ambercrombie & Fitch, Lord & Taylor, or in an upscale law office. Then again you could be in a hole in the dead of winter doing concrete forms. Also, bear this in mind when someone says you won't work all the time. Would you rather work 50 weeks a year making $15 or $20 an hour with little or no benefits or what I outlined before. Not a tough choice for me. Besides if you want or need to, you can line up side work for your down time, although I haven't had to for the last five years. May you find only good luck and good friends when you go looking.
Hey! thanks for the good info. If you don't mind could you shoot me a email at [email protected]. I have some questions about the medical coverage for my wife and baby and some others if you dont mind.
thanks
Thats probably as good a story as Ive heard . I used to work union when I was younger and we were always getting laid off. Mostly the same still happens because companies dont look out for union help like the non union residential contractors do. But, its an education none the less . I hated every minute of it though. My love is residential .
The best thing in my mind about union is to be ready to adapt to being layed off . Beat them to the punch by looking for another job all the time . This is no place for loyalty. I feel differently about a contractor who takes care of his men. The ability to move to the work and travel is a definate advantage.
Tim Mooney
where on the island are you from???? bear
Bear, I'm originally from Levittown, now in Wantagh. Why'd you ask? BUIC
i live in huntington......cheers......bear
Well, it's late so I'm gonna try and give you the short answer.
There seem to have been alot of posters who have reconfigured your original question into "SHOULD you join the union?". I'll answer that question 1st, YESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!.
Plumb, square, and level. A fair days pay for a fair days work. That's what the union is about.
Are there problems w/the union? Sure, there's problems w/any organisation, human nature is human nature.
Do the inequities your going to run into in the union seem more hypocritical because it's supposed to be an organisation founded for the common good, not one founded for profit? Sure! But the union still is the best way to go if your planning on being a skilled, WORKING tradesman.
Does working union make all the petty jobsite BS go away? Hell no! But at the end of the day you've earned fair pay for your hard work, and you can take your kids to the doctor w/out worrying how your gonna pay for it, you've put another $50 bucks in your pension, you can go get a mortgage no problems, you can take upgrade classes and become trained/certified in any area of carpentry you want for as long as your in the trade.
Get laid-off tomorrow? Sure, it happens, but there're people helping you get your next job, and you don't have to EVER take a pay cut until you "prove yourself", you've already done that or you wouldn't be a union journeyman.
Are there broke-dick good for nothing lazy drunk bully union carpenters? Yep, but there's broke-dick good for nothing lazy drunk bully non-union carpenters too. It's the CONTRACTORS job to hire and fire, to many contractors are to lazy and or disorganised to go about running jobs well. They'd rather throw men and materials at a job and then blame the workers for any problems, than roll-up there sleeves and really manage the work.
Too many contractors act as if "overhead and management" were just another line item of 15% (or whatever) profit on the job instead of investing the money into doing there job and running the work.
Managing workers on a site can be complex and never-ending, but it's what the contractors charging the customer for, it's not what the union's for.
I've NEVER seen a carpenter who was laid-off or fired for a remotely good reason (tardiness, absenteeism, incompetence, lazyness, insubordination, bad piss test, etc.) get reinstated through the intervention of our local carpenters unions. The BA's don't want bad men on the jobs, the BA's would take to much heat from the good men and the contractors.
I'll cut the soap box speech short. I know how jingoistic I sound. But, I came out of non-union residential work. I know how it was and how it is. Everyman for himself. A carpenter in non-union work is forced to be in effect a sub-contractor of one. Bad paychecks, 1099's instead of W-2's, no benefits or self payed benefits, was the workers-comp payed this month?, weekend and 40+ weeks for straight time, you gotta have a truck and a grands worth of power tools just to get a job, etc., etc., etc.
Take a look around when your walking up to those sites looking for work. See any older guys? Are they working, or do they have a cell phone stuck in their ear looking management? Non-union work, especially residential is a young kids game. Around here your a dinosaur at 35 if your still pounding nails on houses. Hire young, run them hard, teach them nothing, pay them nothing, blame them for all the mistakes. There are plenty of good WORKING older carpenters. they wised up and went where the working conditions, pay, and benefits were, on union jobs.
There's plenty of good carpenters doing good work and making good pay in non-union work (I was one). But they are forced to function as businessmen as much as tradesmen. How about if you wanna just be a good mechanic from 7:30 to 3:30 ? You don't want to take business home w/you every night? You want variety in the types of work you do and are qualified to do? You want to be able to work hard in a safe environment, in a trade you love, and be middle class just like your friends and neighbors. Go w/the union.
Why is it that it's always other carpenters bitching about carpenters? Why squabble among ourselves? We all are carpenters, and hopefully we all want the same things; SQUARE, PLUMB, AND LEVEL! A FAIR DAYS WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS PAY!
If this hasn't ruffled to many feathers, I'll stop back tomorrow night and give you my 2¢'s worth on how to get in the union.
Yah, Iknow, I totally blew my 1st goal of keeping it short too.
Well said !
Hard way to make a living,but it has been good to me and I like what do.
Been non union(5years) been union19years in Chicago area.Works been pretty steady, a few slow seasons,but you store your acorns away for such times.
Good bennies(especially with 3kids) scale is $31.97 now atleast $4.00 more next 2 years(not all on the check)
Might I suggest you consider putting in your 20 in the service and then out.
Hey! I would really like to get on with the union in the Chicago area. Do you have any point of contacts?