Whenever I hear a builder or trades person on TV speaking like someone who actually knows a thing or two about building science, they almost always seem to be from the New England area. Is that just an illusion created by This Old House reruns, or are contractors and craftsmen really “a cut above” in that part of the country?
Thanks,
Michael
New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
Replies
they WERE when I lived there...
Now NY Carps are tops
.
.
.
"First thing I would do is shoot the carpenter"
TOH originates in Boston (and FHB is in CT) and one of the houses they do each season is in the area, so there is a preponderance of NE builders on that show (and in the mag). And since that show is on ALL THE TIME now, it might seem like NE has a lock on Fine Craftsmanship.
While we do have some great ones up here (and right here in this forum), I think it's a matter of convenience for the producers of the show and the mags. I am sure there are great ones (and hacks too) all over.
Most nights are crystal clear, but tonight it's like he's stuck between stations.
I suspect it's the accent. I know that in the horticulture business if you have a British accent, thou art worthy of worship. I just figger it's the same here.
Steve
You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think.
Visit Sea Island, GA Charlston SC, St Augustine FL, and on, and on, and on... All regions of the world have good and bad. Craftsmen go with the flow.
Chuck S
live, work, build, ...better with wood
Edited 6/22/2007 8:18 pm ET by stevent1
Edited 6/22/2007 8:20 pm ET by stevent1
Here I thought all the good craftsmen were in the midwest. Go figure
Doug
I've noticed a huge difference in the quality of carps from region to region. In SE Wyoming and NE Colorado, both have carpenters that have made building a career choice, not simply a job to get by on. The pay is good compared to the cost of living and this has attracted many who either have a college or strong voc-ed background or were considering it.
On one big house all the finish carps had a masters degree, our assistants were as skilled as many full carps and my laborer was going to community college for a construction degree. Even the highschool kids in that area build a pretty good house using the latest methods and materials.
What seems to make the most difference is money. There has to be decent money in the trades or the best and brightest will go somewhere else.
Here in Boise carpenters are looked down on, most are paid very little, few carps are in it for the long haul, and young kids would rather join the carnival than pick up a trade.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I'm no spring chicken, but joining the carnival sounds like fun anyway!Huck said it first. I just agreed with him.
<joining the carnival sounds like fun anyway>
LOL! Quick funny hi-jack story. Little circus comes through here twice a year, Pages Circus; literally a family-run operation. All of the performers also circulate and sell concessions between their spots. Cuban father, mother, little son, two gorgeous daughters, along with extended family and others, mostly Hispanic. We've watched them grow up over the last few years, taking our kids to watch.
This spring, the eldest (18-19-20?) daughter was not there, or mentioned - I was disappointed!
We joked that their dirty little family secret was that she had run off to join an accounting firm!
Forrest - dreaming of my spangled girl in sensible shoes
I was a carny of sorts at a theme park for a couple of summers. I sang, acted, entertained, did pie fight, was the barker for a 'medicine show', there was a trampoline act that I helped out with, I used to scrape the ice rink between the ice shows, was part of a magic show, there was an aerial show that I would assist at times, I even acted as a live 'spook' in the spook house ride. Scared the hell outa people.Real carnival folk are the ones who travel, like circus folk, and they are a breed apart. It is not an easy life.This was in the early 70's and some of the acts were older folks in their 60's & 70's and had been in vaudiville when they were young.It is fun, but I recommend it only when you're young.
Most of that type of carnival has all but disappeared from the landscape.And...
No. N.E. builders are not necessarily better. They are top notch and they tend to be much more traditional in their approaches, but there are great builders & craftsmen everywhere.
my thinking is it's just a question of economics
when i was growing up here there was no money.. the work, the craftsmanship , the architecture and the materials reflected that
after the 80's this area had a large influx of New York & Connecticut money
the same guys who used to be carpenters became craftsmen....
funny how that works
of course ... history tells us the same thing
it takes money to support craftsmanship...... follow the money and you'll find the craftsmen
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
How true... historically, you can see the same trends in all forms of artistry, with artists flocking to courts that supported the arts. Artists would travel for thousands of miles to find courts that appreciated their skills. Hence the concentration/blooming of art at different times/places around the globe.Similarly, I am sure that some skilled craftsmen/women roam the US looking for areas in which high-end work is not only recognized but rewarded as well. I suppose getting recognized as the "go-to" guy is one of the challenges of doing such work. That's where magazine articles and other such publicity comes into play... those with the means to pay for extraordinary services also have to know how to find you.I wouldn't be surprised if more craftsmen/women didn't resort to substantial web-sites in combination with tractor-trailer rigs that contain full workshops. Then criss-cross the US doing the work you love. Insurance, licenses, and family are likely challenges to this sort of business model, I suppose.You cannot expect to get caviar on a bread-and-butter budget. You might get it anyway, but it's doubtful it'll happen unless you invest substantial amounts of your own sweat equity.
Edited 6/23/2007 2:39 pm ET by Constantin
Thje traveling contractor carny sshow is possible, I'm sure. After completing projects heree for people who were thrilled with the work, I have had offers to travel to NYC, Boston, Florida, and California. Cusstomers who claimed they could not find the same level of craftsmanship there
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Once in a while when I accomplish something it provides a nice positive hit to my ego. Then I open a few threads here on BT and come back down to earth.
One of my customers has/had a place in Weschester County, NY and was willing and planning to fly me and a buddy up there to remodel his place. I was looking more forward to riding in his personal bizjet than the actual job. Never did get that project off the ground.
<Once in a while when I accomplish something it provides a nice positive hit to my ego. Then I open a few threads here on BT and come back down to earth>
Man, 'zat is the truth!!!
I figure if I post pix it will make me do better work so y'all won't make gfun and point out my mistakes!
Forrest - gotta post some tile shower pix and Chuck is gonna' laff at me
Maybe 'cause you look better in a suit than in a shower;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hah - client grabbed my camera and got a pic of me today in their new shower - she said there weren't any of me in my threads!
Forrest
McDesign, UHm , cough, cough , lets see here. Pic of you in her shower, no pics of you in your threads. cough , does this mean she has pics of you out of your threads?
naw, I will leave it alone."Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Edited 6/24/2007 1:41 am by dovetail97128
Hah! good one!
Forrest
Yesterday I was visiting with an old guy here about that same theory. He has retired from owning lumberyard in St Louis MO. He owns a home there that had been built in 1933 and hs seen a lot of things come and go in his life in he business.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Well, now that I think about it, in the mid 80s I did a fair ammount of travelling building stores inside shopping malls for a few well known retailers. We'd roll into such garden spots as Ogden, Utah; Pocatello, Idaho; Salem, OR; Aberdeen, Everett, Centralia, WA along with all the places you'd expect to find malls like L.A., Seattle/Tacoma, Honaloulou...
We'd set up shop for 2-6 weeks, depending on how much work was involved, work insane hours, bill disgusting ammounts of money, then tear it down and move on to the next project.
Thinking back, that was what you could easilly call a travelling carnival, or at least a freak show. Not that I have distinct memories of much of those years.Huck said it first. I just agreed with him.
That sounds similar to Pipeorgan installs. We'd show up with a 28' Truck packed to the roof, and 3-4 personal vehicles, likewise packed.
Unload inside the church, out on the parking lot, Front lawn..wherever, and take over for as long as it took to get sound playing.
Load up and go back and build another one, pack it up, travel to the next church, and repeat.
From the heat of Alabama, to Lake Shore of Chicago in Feb. It took a certain mindset to pulll that off.
There has been a steeplejack to the island here who specialies and travels like that. He rebuilt a steeple, cross, and bell housing in a few weeks
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yeah, they hate bringing the church to you. (G)
It depends, for some subs,
Are the N E Mexicans better than the Mexicans of other areas?
Nah! They just sound like they know what they're talking about. You have to remember that none of us knows everything. These guys have the benefit of reading off a script (written by a tradesperson) so they don't sound like a big dope talking out of his butt.
Take Mike Holmes (Holmes on Homes) for example. Here's a guy with substantial experience but by no means knows everything. He's smart. He surrounds himself with the best guys in each trade. Then he throws his two cents. Bingo Bango, he sounds like he knows it all. That's show business baby!
Dave
I've worked with some great carpenters, all over the country. It's not about region, it's more about personal integrity and economic opportunity. Both are required in order to produce top quality work.
Whenever I hear a builder or trades person on TV speaking like someone who actually knows a thing or two about building science, they almost always seem to be from the New England area.
Ahh, yes - always better to let TV shape your opinions, I say. Saves wear and tear on the ol' gray matter. Nothing builds gratuitous confidence like the ad slogan "as seen on TV!" - Huck (in California)
"...an open mind is a powerful thing. The ability to listen to others is invaluable."
Jim Blodgett
i would not want to say the wrong thing here as i have not been everywhere, i learned in NJ, NY, and just the fact that its very completive there makes it different then other places i have been to, Its just faster paced there in everything, I dunno bout those Red Sox fans though, I never thought they was to bright ;)
Of course, aall of the NE builders are too humble to answer this question
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
THis is kind of a loaded question for you, you've worked in about every region of the country.
I'd have to agree with Doug on this, Midwest seems to have the better talent pool.
Matt
I suppose now there'll be a disagreement on where those midwest boundaries are.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I dont care where those boundries are just as long as Iowa is in the middle of them!
Doug
Personal Peeve.I O way is not in the middle of the midwest.
Don't forget that St Louey is the Gateway to the West.The term was orginally used in the early 1800's when people are first moving WEST into Ohio, Indian, etc.The midwest is basically east of the Missippi River.IA and MO are in the central plains states..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Pet peeve aside Bill I said that I dont care where those boundries are as long as you put Iowa in the middle!
That statement is saying, I as an Iowan want to be included within the boundries of the area that I think has the best craftsmen!
This wasnt meant as a geograpy lesson but more of a statement that I want to be included in the area where craftsmen exist.
Dont go getting all litteral on here, theres no room for it! I can throw a rock and hit the boarder of Ill so I'm close enough to be considered a midwesterner. I think most people would call Iowa a midwest state, hell Bill they would probably throw you into the midwest as well.
Doug
"hell Bill they would probably throw you into the midwest as"And likewise I would disagree.Now you know why I have my tagline..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Ohio in Indian means "No Carpenters Here." LOL
Matt
Don't think of crossing the border Matt.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Probably won't cross over it, nothing much there I like. Especially that football team of yours. This year the big blue machine wins.
Matt
Sure pal, whatever you say.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I realy think it depends less on the part of the country than on the type of job.In tract housing, you will find more lowballers and just get by stuff. In the custom jobs you will find the vcraftsment that people are willing to pay for.In Colorado, I did a slate roof on a seven million dollar residnce. That was in '83 dollars. The owner was one of the largest ccommercial builders in Denver at the time and this was his privte retreat. You can bet he imported some of the best talent from around the country.There are some regional diffferences that are effected by climtae too. Exterior trim details that work fine inthe southwest for a hundred years would have things rotting out in five yearts in the humid wet PNW or the NE climates..
And the Spanish ruggedness effecting styles in the SW is not as finely detailed as the lassical detailing in so much of the eastern architecture. So a carp from the SW might have methods that are percieved as cheap and sloppy in the NE
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Well said, I replied jokingly because you've worked almost everywhere.
No matter where they say the best carpenters come from you've probably been there. :)
Matt
Don't forget - I'm no carpenter.I'm a remodelor
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
LOL
one time a person bought a big old Victorian in Astoria Oregon, They had all sorts of money and flew in a craftsman from new England, He spent a year working on it, The inside stuff was fine but it only took 5 years and the whole outside had to be redone, he shunned cedar and used no treated wood here in the wet NW, He went out of his way to use a lotta pine outside and did not know how to felt and waterproof here where the rain blows sideways, I think he was told but was a know it all. Part of being a good tradesman is finding out what works where
I was in Cape Breton in 2001, someone there said that a local with an axe could do a better job than a New Englander with a full tool kit. I reckon this was meant to emphasise the skill of the Canadian, not the poor effort of the New Englander.