Good Morning-
This problem has been driving me crazy for a couple of years and every solution I’ve tried has failed — often times miserably. I’m hoping someone can help.
We have two sets of french doors that open to the outside in our house. One is the back entry to our mudroom, the other is the front entry to our deck. One set of doors was custom built before we bought the house (wood with single panes of glass). The other set are off-the-shelf french doors (wood with 9 lights).
I weather stripped the perimeter with foam weatherstripping and that worked great. But my problem is trying to weather strip the astragal — no matter what I do, it just doesn’t work. I have tried felt, silicon, and foam products — nothing seems to work well and everything has failed over time.
Is there a secret I’m missing?
I’m sure part of my problem is door alignment — on both sets of doors the astragal has an uneven gap from top to bottom which I assume is a result of the doors not being installed perfectly. Is there a method to line the doors up that I’m missing? For both doors, the top seems to be farther out than the bottom (meaning the bottom of the astragal is tight while the top is not.
I assume step #1 is getting the doors as even as possible (I think I saw a recent article in FH that will help — french door tricks or something like that). Once that’s done, does anyone have any suggestions for material/methods to create an airtight gap where the two doors meet in the middle? Both doors have astragals that are in sad shape and will need to be replaced.
Any advice/insight is appreciated. I’m in Vermont and it’s starting to get COLD.
Shawn.
Replies
Greetings and welcome to BT.
It's been my experience that trying to get the seal in the astragal is asking too much of a very small area.
I much prefer to treat it like a regular door strike joint with a good copper "V" flashing (patiently) nailed in. On an outswing french, this looks odd, as on the astragal side, the open part of the "V" is aimed at the back of the astragal. That's also the right way, because, if any wind gets under the astragal, it acts to "close" the "V" into the other door leaf.
I've seen some old hands flash the other leaf in reverse, but unless there's a goodly wind inside the house, alls you get is a copper-to-copper joint that has a very professional look to it.
Shawn,
In my experience, trying to put the weatherstrip on the astragal itself doesn't always work, as you have noticed. Instead, when the astragal is attached to the outside of the door(the operator) I put the weatherstrip on the narrow edge of the door, to the outside of the catch and the deadbolt, tucked in the corner made by the door edge and the astragal. When the astragal is on the inside of the door (the fixed door), I put the weatherstrip on the narrow edge of the door to the inside of the catch and the deadbolt again tucked in the corner made by the astragal and the door. I use a V-shaped vinyl self adhesive weatherstrip. The strip is 3/4" wide, with a crease down the middle, and comes flat in a roll. You cut it to length and fold it down the middle along the crease giving you a V-shape with each leg 3/8" wide. You put it on the door edge with the sharp point of the V pointing in the direction of travel as the door is closed. You need about 1/8" space between the two doors for it work. As the door closes the V is compressed, like a wedge, and seals the gap. The weatherstrip is easy to find at most hardware stores.
Brad
Brad-
many, many thanks. I have used the V-shaped weatherstripping in the past (here and on other projects) and it never worked with the astragal. I was trying to compress the weatherstripping between the astragal and the door which, as you noted, doesn't work very well.
The technique you described sounds perfect, especially after I true-up the doors (if that's possible). Even if I can't get them dead on, which is likely because I think at least one is warped slightly, your technique probably will still work. If nothing else I should be able to get 90%+ of the airflow stopped.
Thanks again.
s.
When you say "French" doors, I assume you mean two doors in a single frame. I further assume that you mean that both of these doors are active (neither of them is fixed in place). And that your problem is with the 'custom' door set. (Anything off the shelf has a groove for the strips, and the strips are readily available.)
Yes, it's a very good idea to get them hung properly before you mess with the weatherstripping. If the gap from top to bottom is uneven, weatherstripping is next to impossible. (Home Depot does not sell uneven weatherstripping.)
The gaps must be even all the way around, the threshold must be level, and the hinge jambs must be plumb in both directions.
Once that is true, you should be able to use either a nylon "V" or maybe a silicone rubber tube. Either can be bought with self-sdhesive strips that are fairly durable.
Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.
Thanks. That is what I meant by French doors. In both places both doors open outwards (one is fixed with top/bottom latches, of course).
Getting the doors setup correctly appears to be the first critical step. I have assumed to this point that the variation from top to bottom was small enough that a standard compression type weatherstripping (silicon, bulb, v-shape, etc.) would compress more on the bottom and less on the top, but a seal would be formed top to bottom.
In practice, that has not been the case. The doors become difficult to close (or won't close) and the gap is not sealed completely.
Thanks again for the info. Much appreciated.
Hi Shawn,
Check these guys out.
http://www.ebuildingsource.com/orderinfo.asp
I have purchased exterior door sills and thresholds from them but not any astragal parts. They have a pretty good selection of materials for just about any type of door action or set-up.
J.P.
J.P.-
thanks. That site is unreal -- I had no idea there were that many products in the market for weatherization!
s.
Get a weatherstripping catalog from Resource Conservation Technology, http://www.conservationtechnology.com.
IIRC, the catalog shows a method for splicing tube seals of different diameters for dealing with uneven gaps.
-- J.S.
John-
funny you should mention that catalog. The recent issue of This Old House had a reference to Resource Conservation Technology -- I ordered their catalog on Monday (for door sweeps originally, but I'm glad to hear that they'll have a solution or two for my astragal problem as well).
41 degrees last night -- time to get the doors sealed. However, the house is insulated with sprayed-in-place polyurethane foam, so the drafts from the astragals are probably the only fresh air we're getting!
Thanks for the tip. Can't wait to get the catalog.
s.