The attic access is in our master bedroom walk-in closet. Visits to the attic for maintenance involve moving clothes, falling insulation, etc. The attic isn’t used for storage. This 2500 sq. ft. one-story ranch has a garage that “fits within” the roof and could provide attic access through its ceiling. What are the issues (i.e., security, safety, other) with closing off the MBR closet access and placing the access in the garage?
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Replies
Mike
I can't think of one problem at all other then by having such easy access you may end up using the attic for storage now..lol....and you know what that means.....Stuff will go up there that you'll "never" use again..lol
You can get attic stairs for under a hundred bucks too.
Be well
Namaste
Andy
"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Code will not allow an unsealed opening from the garage into the home attic area due to fire concerns. Consult with your city inspector about doing this with the proper fire rating.
Just what qualifies as a sealed opening?
I just put a large hinged insulated door in my garage for easier access. Of course, it's replacing a 22" sq. piece of 1/4" plywood that set in a frame also in the garage. The garage is insulated, and there is minimal storage up there. My replacement is worlds better then what was there, read way overkill, but does it qualify?
It's 2x4 framed, filled w/ foam insulation board, and the edges are sealed to the ceiling w/ foam tape. It hinges down and out of the way of the ladder when open, and is closed by a rope and pulley arangement from the floor (got tired of putting the ladder away, then realizing I'd forgot to close the door, uh put the plywood back).
Thanks
Bill
Wouldn't you want it to be a fire rated door, just like the one into the house?
John
What do you mean by an unsealed opening? A drop down set of stairs "is" sealed isn't it? You could even put some sheetmetal on the wood door that attaches to the stairs above it. I kind of dont know what you mean. Explain.
a"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I agree with John on this one. Fire code problems with garage access. Best solution is to find a centrally located (under ridge) hallway, and put a pull down stair there. Best of both worlds.
Steve
I never thought about that before but I don't see why a pull stair couldn't be faced with fire rated rock and made OK though the edges might be questionable.
Trusses might make the hallway access location impossible in many layouts.
.
Excellence is its own reward!
Have seen trusses cut to accomodate an attic stairwell. I have resisted doing this like you wouldnt believe BUT on a job about a year ago the customer coerced me into talking to the truss company to see if their engineer would give the OK to cut out one truss bottom chord and webbing. To my absolute surprise...he did! His comment was that they were designed so as to allow such cutting. To this day I cant believe that. I did it tho, on his say so.
I have also seen trusses cut and the roof sagged tho.
I don't know who told you that, but they were a freakin' moron. I doubt it was an engineer - Probably just someone who worked there. Trusses are NOT designed to allow for such cutting.
I'll admit that it happens all to frequently, and most of the time you can get away with it. But it still isn't a good idea, and isn't worth the risk.
Think about it from a liability standpoint - Can you PROVE that they told you it was O.K. to cut it? Do you have it in writing? If not, you're probably 100% liable for cutting it. Most truss companies send out literature saying NOT to cut trusses. So you're screwed if you don't have it in writing.
Did I mention the guy who told you that was a moron?I get enough exercise just pushing my luck.
Was hoping you chimed in on this one. I just called him and told him The Boss called him a moron and all I heard was cussing and scuffling after that. Was it something I said?
" Was it something I said?"
Who knows. Some people are SOOOOO sensitive.Warning: Driver only carries $20.00 in ammunition.
Boss,
Just a question I've been meaning to ask you. Was a truss repair I did appropriate? Some details follow:
My house when purchased has a chimney, unused, in the middle of the house. Being right in the center of my basement hallway, I decided to remove it.
In the attic, the chimney installer had cut about a 2 ft. chunk out of both the top and bottom truss chord. The house has 30' span 2x4 trusses 24" O.C.. The only reinforcing then done was some doubled 2x4's connecting the top and bottom chords. No attempt was made to reattach the 2, now, seperate truss sections.
25+ yr. old house, Idaho w/ heavy snow loads some years, no signs of sagging or problems though I can't understand why.
MY REPAIR: After removing the chimney I framed in a piece of 3/4 ply to fill the hole, w/ a roof vent in the center. Then I laid a length of 2x4 that extended over a foot to either side of the cut out section. Drilled holes and put two 3/8" bolts through the truss chord and the patch piece on each side of the hole. I did this to both top and bottom of ea. chord. I also did this to a top chord elsewhere in the attic that had cracked about 1/2 way through.
Seems fine to me, but is there a better way to do this? Or, is this an unaproved way to repair a truss that could violate code? Thanks in advance.
Bill
What you did probably won't restore 100% of the strength of the truss, but it's at least on the right track. ALL the pieces of the truss need to be connected back together - Webs included. You didn't mention them.
I doubt 2 bolts is adequate. Technically, you would probably need a much longer scab on both sides, with a bunch of nails in them.
You don't mention the pitch, but I would venture to guess it's fairly high? That would account for why the trusses haven't sagged. The diaphram action of the roof plywood can do amazing things at higher pitches.
No way I could know if it will meet code there - I know nothing about your codes or loading requirements. I've been doing a lot of abstract painting lately, extremely abstract. No brush, no paint, no canvas, I just think about it.
Thanks.
I'll add a longer piece on the other side w/ lots of nails. None of the webs were cut, though one was quite close to the cut. I may not have explained it well, but each scab has 4 bolts, 2 on each side of the gap, to prevent racking. Plus, I think a few screws to hold it together while I drilled holes. I used bolts mainly to avoid any chance of splitting the existing truss members. Were you doing something of this nature, would you scab it as I did? Would you use bolts at all, or just nails, or bolts and nails?
Not a steep roof pitch, easy to walk on. Haven't measured it, but it's somewhere around a 30 degree angle.
I know if I was having a house built and they did this, seems to be original, they'd have redone it. Moving the chimney a couple of inches would have allowed it to go between the trusses. Measuring error I'm sure, but no excuse for compromising the structural integrity like they did. I'd at least have made them tie it to the 2 adjacent trusses. Not sure if this is the best way, but it would certainly add a great deal of strength.
Thanks again
Bill
"...each scab has 4 bolts, 2 on each side of the gap..."
I assumed that's what you meant. But I'm sure that's not enough.
" I used bolts mainly to avoid any chance of splitting the existing truss members."
Drilling holes for bolts also removes some of the chord material. I think that's why nails are typically used.
"Not a steep roof pitch........somewhere around a 30 degree angle. "
A 7/12 pitch is jst over 30°. That's plenty steep to get some diaphram action from the roof plywood.
"I'd at least have made them tie it to the 2 adjacent trusses."
That's also commonly done, but is a bad idea. It accomplished almost nothing.I like to pick up hitchhikers. When they get in the car I say, "Put on your seat belt. I want to try something. I saw it once in a cartoon, and I think I can do it."
"I'd at least have made them tie it to the 2 adjacent trusses."
That's also commonly done, but is a bad idea. It accomplished almost nothing.
Ok, now I'm really curious. Why is this a bad idea? What is the proper way to do this? I was thinking it should be done as a skylight in a rafter roof, see picture. My trusses are the type in the second picture.
I have another larger chimney, double barrel, that cuts a truss, possibly two . It is framed in like the skylight picture, and cuts both chords and both webs of the truss. It's located about 3-4' from roof centerline, and removes around 4' of linear truss structure. What is the proper way to frame this in and distribute the load? Now you've got me concerned. 25 year old house, but our last year with really high snowloads was over 30 years ago.
I've had a good deal of experience framing walls, and some doing roofs, but zero w/ trusses. All the roofs have been beam and rafter types.
Really appreciate your help with this. Need to go by our local college library and see if they have any books on this. Seems like they did.
Bill
Tell ya what - I don't really have time to answer that one right now. Might be worthy of a new thread. I'll type one in tomorrow, and call it "Cutting trusses for skylights".He said...Why don't you tell me when you have an orgasm?She said... I would but you're never there.
You the man. Thanks.
Your tag lines crack me up.
Enjoy
Got the Cutting trusses for skylights thread started. Let me know what ya think, and if this answers your questions.I read so many bad things about smoling, drinking, overeating, and sex that I finally decided to give up reading
Hey pif
Long time no write. The edges would have to be sealed with firestop caulk for a two hour rating.........kinda defeats the purpose. Also, if he has a truss roof, why bother adding any stair access at all. The space will be pretty much useless, and it would take forever to maneuver your way from the garage to any central location in the attic. Not to mention putting your foot thru the ceil. (been there, done that) since truss roofs never have any attic floor installed.
The other problem with garage access to attics (with pull down stairs) is that if a car happens to be in the garage when you need to access the attic, you have to first move it. I can guarantee that this will only happen when it is raining, freezing, or snowing outside. Hallways never have any thing in the way of the stair.
PS. Tried a new chicken dish the last time dw let me in the kit. Brazed with onions, olives, stewed tomatoes etc. Easy to do (read one pot), tasted great. Let me know if you want to try it.Never a problem, just an opportunity to create a solution... :~}
Steve,
Two hours?
I thunk it were one!
Anyway, I agree that it seems a waste of time to access a location that you only need to get into for a wiring run every five years or some such thing..
Excellence is its own reward!
Piff,
I think you got me. One hour it is. I was thinking of my home, a split with living space ABOVE the garage, I did 2 hours on that since the bedrooms are up there. I sleep better.
Personally, I would still put the stair in the hall for convenience.
Steve
Never a problem, just an opportunity to create a solution... :~}
Not even sure how it applies to codes here....I've yet to be asked to put a set in the garage.....
But I see tons of houses...both new and old.....that have the attic access stairs in the garage.
And...these being houses undergoing major renovation...with inspectors in and out all the time......I'm betting it's allowed somehow somewhere.
I'd check locally...see what they tell ya. These stairs may have even been "Garage Approved"? .....I dunno.....like I said.....haven't been asked to stick them there...yet.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I designed and built a house in Fort Worth, Tx. 12 years ago, and installed a regular pulldown attic stair in the garage. They were using the Uniform Building Code, and neither the plan reviewer or inspector said anything about it.
Did you get to look in those attics? Could it be that they have a fire rated partition that continues above the fire rated wall all the way to the roof?
-- J.S.
No I didn't......but we had to run wire in the last one I remember.......as setting the 35' steel beam made "something" spark when we let off the jack for the final set-down!
Seems it didn't quite clear that wire we saw in the wall cavity!
And I do remember my buddy Joe cursing up a storm as he fed the new wire to me thru the garage side of the attic....which he got to by the pull down stairs...so......there musta been a wall there after all.
Otherwise he woulda swore just half as much and found the hole much quicker.
Maybe we have our answer. JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
It was my understanding that the house wall of the garage had to have 5/8 fire coat sheet rock all the way to the roof if the garage had access to the attic. If the garage did not have access to the attic you had to have 5/8 sheet rock on the ceiling in the garage instead
Mike if the person who built the house knew what he was doing and, I hope it wasn't you, then the access would of been put in the garage area to begin with. By code you had to drywall the ceiling any way it only makes sense. I would close that thing up and cut a hole in the garage ceiling and put 2x4 on each end of the opening and trim it out and use the dry wall that you cut for the opening. I hope I didn't offend you.