Heeeelllllllpp!
Looking for advice for an under performing roofing. Has anyone ever let a sub go, mid job? Does good work, but doesn’t show up on time. Breath is highly flammable and seems to have a hearing problem. Was owners choice, but I am stuck baby sitting. Pulling what little is left of my hair out.
Just looking for some advice from the wise-
Replies
who is the roofer under contract with, you or the owner?
who's responsible for the roofer's performance to the owner, you or the roofer?
bobl Volo, non valeo
Roofer and roofer. It's just that I don't like to see the client get screwed. And he is holding up the rest of the project.
If he can be relieved, would another roofer be willing to finish his work or would they tear it all off and start fresh?
These are things I am still learning.
for the record, i'm an ho
maybe a way to address this is to talk to the owner about delays causing price increases if they go on.(are u losing $ because of the delay?) your other customers being upset due to delays in staring their job. asking for the owners help.
part of the intent is not to put the owner on the defensive.
I can't answer your second question, but suspect they will want to tear off and start over if they are going to be responsible for the roof leaking, or they may treat it as a repair vice new roof.bobl Volo, non valeo
36453.4 in reply to 36453.3
"for the record, i'm an ho"
Be careful what neighborhood you're in when you say that! You might get an interesting reply.<G>
I just finished a job where the roofer was let go mid stream. The other roofers had no problem starting where the other roofer stopped.
You said that he did good work, so I don't see where there would be a problem.
Seems to have a hearing problem?
You must be trying to say something with that.
As for starting on time, if he is a sub, nobody should dictate hours - only performance. Roofers all over the country start late when frost season comes around. That saves lives.
If he has bad breathe, buy some Certs and back away when he speaks.
How is it that you are baby sitting? can't he find the shingles?
I admit to being a little bit amused at this one, partly due to your cryptic choice of wording.
Excellence is its own reward!
I am glad I at least got some amusement out of it. The basic gist is this. The roof was torn off two weeks ago. We are about to start our rainy season. So I have much concern for being dried in. He does have paper down though.
The flammable breath does indeed apply to the idea that he has been drinking although I can't tell if it is left over from the night before.
He has not shown up before ten if he shows up at all for the day. He does not return calls. Or let me in on his schedule. We were to be done by this date. And finally two weeks later we have about 2 square down out of 33.
Now I am not a roofer, and I don't want to be. The work I have seen from him is of good quality. I know the roofers get very busy as the first rains come. I may be completely out of line.
I am still looking for advice on letting someone go mid project though. And if the hassles are worth riding this one out.
Thanks for the posts
I pretty much assumed all of those interpretations but I had to pull your chain a little,
Since it appears thatt he owners hired him, you would have no liability but in fairness and service to them, I would be likely to inform them in a professional way in writing how his work was substandard (scedule and communications far below industry norm) and possibly offer a name or two for replacement roofers while reminding them that you cannot be expected to take on liability for the lack of performance on a man that they hired.
As I go forward in my carreer and experience, I come more and more to realize that I MUST have control over every sub on the job because of instances like this. It becomnes your headache whether you get the profit from it or not..
Excellence is its own reward!
Seems to me you should be talking to the H.O., not us. The roofer was their choice. Seems to me a major switch like ditching the sub they picked should be made along with them.
We can't tell you if switching subs will work or not - Roofers in your area may be totally different than the ones anywhere else. And it depends on how good the replacement roofer is.
Good luck, and be sure to let us know how it turns out.A miser is hard to live with, but makes a fine ancestor.
I'm assuming that what was meant was that he won't listen, and the breath comment made me wonder if it was code for drinking on the job....but that's just an assumption.
As someone who also has a little problem hearing, I think you need to go beyond your personal dislikes and specify how these attributes are attributing to a sub-par performance. If the highly flammable breath is alcohol related, then a case may be made for possible endangerment of others because of possible impaired judgement.
I'm not a lawyer, but I would guess that you would be on far firmer ground if you based it on whether he was performing his services at the level called for in an actual or implied contract, whether written or verbal. If the agreement was that he complete the work to a certain standard witihin 4 days and didn't show up for two of those days but got the job done on the 4th day, then I would guess you wouldn't have much of a case. If you released him before he violated aspects of the contract, I think you or someone would be liable for legal action in which he could possibly collect what was owed him under the contract.
You probably should be careful in framing your complaints against subs or your employees and they should be clearly performance related. I am not sure how the regulations apply to subs, but if you were to fire an employee and infer it was because he was deaf and had halitosis, you could possibly find yourself under legal action from those enforcing the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).
Edited 11/5/2003 8:22:46 PM ET by CaseyR
Casey I did not mean too imply any bad connotations about hearing loss. It was just that when asked to do certain things in order he chose not to do that and in particular I showed him where some skylights would be and he chose to shingle over the area first thing. When there were plenty of other areas that needed attention.
I will be more clear with my wording in the future.
Thanks for the post
I believe you stated that the roofer workrd for the home owner and was responsible to the home owner for the quality of the work. I dont really see that it is your choice whether he stays or goes. Personally I would talk to another roofer first to see if anyone is available and then tell the home owner that the current roofer is putting things behind schedule and possibly jeapardising the entire project. It would then be the home owners decision to make. If it is the busy season though I would have someone else lined up before I had him canned. I would guess that he doesnt return your calls because he doesnt work for you. Seems like you are in the middle of a bad situation.
Hey, I am not the least touchy about going deaf. It's just one of those things. My point was to caution against what you say to someone who might later be a position to file a complaint against you - even if the statement was meant innocently. Some things are just better thought than said...
The old deaf (non-lawyer) guy...
I get the idea that you are not ready yet. If there are still skylights to be framed then the roofer may be waiting till you get it together. Often roofers have to wait for the framers to catch up. Call him when you are ready. He is probably peeved about having to redo the area that will have the skylight. This time of year there are probably others that are pleading for his help. You are down on the list until those skylights are framed. I don't blame him for putting you off.
I was kind of wondering about the skylights myself. Why were the skylights not cut in and framed sealed to the roof before the roofer ever put down the first strip of felt?
Skylights not delivered yet. Came that day. Placement on only pitch of roof with no details , should have been the last pitch he did. 33 square with none of it covered he had plenty to do and many details to attend to before that ever should have been an issue. In this particular case this roofer has over promised and under delivered. Velux deck mount 1 hr max framed and installed. Again this should not have been an issue. But you are entitled to your opinion, that is why we are here.
Thanks for the input
Romeo,
I will give you my opinion as a roofer.
There is ZERO chance that I would EVER take over a project like this------and I can't think of any roofers that I know that would get involved either.
also---I would have serious reservations about a roofer who would be available on such short notice to take this project over.
make it look like an accident?... i mean, we're talking about a roofer here, how tough can that be to arrange? "now, you see right down there by the eave? no, not there above those nice soft bushes- over there above the driveway- yeah, bend down and take a closer look..."
just kiddin', heh, heh. but seriously folks, my brother and i worked our way thru school laying shingles twenty some odd years ago. it was not at all uncommon for us to have to go out and finish a job that a crew had started before deciding to disappear for a couple weeks- or in some cases, permanently. my all-time fave was the half done shake job with no flashings over any of the attic vents or pipe jacks- just gaping holes. we had to tarp it in a downpour at 6am on a sunday, then go back and fix it later that day in a steady drizzle.
i don't know about nowadays (somehow i doubt anything has changed), but back then the term "undependable roofer" was practically redundant. it was kind of a running contest between the rockers (drywallers) and roofers as to who could be the biggest pain that way. we always figured it was due to the piecework pay- bust your butt for a week or two, get a huge check by working man standards ($800-$1000/wk or more was not at all unusual when it was busy) then blow things off for a week or two.
m
I've heard many people say roofing (or drywalling or painting) was the last job you had before going to prison or the first one you got when you got out.
As a roofer, the last thing I want is to have to assume liability for a partially finished job. If something is done wrong before I got there and I don't catch it, I'm still on the hook for it.
In this case, if only a couple of squares are installed, I might take it over if I was hungry. If much more than that is complete, I would stay away.
i've never heard it put that way! maybe add restaurant cook to the list.
as far as finishing someone else's job- ANY job, not just roofing- somebody always has to and somebody (almost) always will, one way or another. yes, circumstances matter but bottom line, the homeowner/gc/whoever will find somebody to do it. and you might reap a ton of future good will from getting them out of a jam. i wouldn't recommend basing your business on that sort of work -but with roofers being like they are, you could probably make a decent living at it. ;-)
m
With roofers being like they are, I make a pretty decent living staying away from messes like this one. Once again, we've only heard one side of the story. Is the roofer in question waiting on payment for his materials? What are the terms of his contract? Not trying to place blame, but there could be more to the story than what's come to light.
whatcha sayyyyyy??????
What time......anyone say "happy hour"?
Ever do roofing?......ask Piff.what a sucky job.....I'd drink and show up late too if thats all I did....
Kidding....kinda.
Roofers are a dime a dozen and ones cheaper than the other around here....
Good luck bro
BE a square
andy
My life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I hate the fact that that is the reputatin roofers are saddled with but in many places, it is true.
Part of the reason is that it is hard, heavy, strenuous work that is hot, cold, wet, icy, miserable work to do. If it weren't for a bit of macho bravado, challenge the other guy to keep up or outdo each other, I don't think half the roofing in the country would ever get finished.
Back when i was normally introducing myself as a "Roofer" it seemed like every guy I ever meet from doictors to janitors always said, "I used to be a roofer (or "do roofing") with the emphasis on USED TO, generally meaning that they did a few roofs - enough to know that they didn't want to be a roofer after all, or that they had earned enough to pay for school breaking a sweat and a back.
But it is a young man's sport, so hard that staying with it for any length of time seems to take a low forehead and furry knuckles for the majority. That means that most people I met who knew me as a roofer asssumed that I was not the kind of guy they wanted their daughter to date. The fact that it is hard to get guys to do it means there are generally vacancies and it is easy to get work when you are at rock bottom.
For me, when I decided to quit playing hippy and settle into working for a living, I had a choice between carpentry at $2.25/hr or laying shingles at $2.75/hr. One and a half years later, I was making $4.10/hr and my buddy who had started in carp at 2.25 had his raise to 2.75.
So that's why I sold my soul to the asphalt gods..
Excellence is its own reward!
In my early daze of remodeling Piff...I worked for the Greeks doing "roofing and siding" (aluminum)....humped more squares up a ladder than you can imagine.
Roofing so sux unless its just part of the job....actually I can't wait to do the entire roof on this house...so tempted to skip sheath the additions.....even in th snow this winter.....
Reckon we love what we do, huh?
Be a square
andyMy life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM