That’s the final ‘scheduled’ payment in the contract I signed for the recent home addition we had done.
But is it truly ‘complete’?
Other than a few punchlist items (interior door that won’t latch here, leaky gutter there) the one major problem is the cable TV wiring.
When everything was supposedly ‘done’, we connected two tv’s in the new addition – one in the new family room and one in the new MBR. The reception on both was very static-y. Now this is digital cable – shouldn’t be any static. We checked the other tv’s in the house – two that were connected to pre-existing cable lines – crystal clear.
Had the GC call the electrical sub back to take a look. He said there was nothing wrong with his work. Perhaps the signal coming in from the street was too weak to handle the additional hook-ups, and we should call our cable compnay. Did so.
After about 10 minutes of poking around, the cable guy says “Well, the first thing you need to do…is get a new electrician.” Said that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the signal coming in from the road (as evidenced by the two older connections that are crystal clear) and that basically the elec. did a half-assed job at wiring the cable. After a bunch of “well you need a stronger thingamajig here and ya’ really should have a johnson rod over there..” cable speak, he replaced a couple of splitters that the elec. had installed and put some sort of signal booster on the new lines. But said, we really shouldn’t need that booster, it’s the poor wiring job that makes it necessary. So, of course we asked if this was something the cable company could fix – “Sure! cost you about 2 grand though. You really should have the elec. fix his shoddy work.”
So, reception is ‘acceptable’ (not perfect) on those two tv’s, but again, we shouldn’t need that booster.
Another call to the GC to have the elec. come back out. GC asks what did the cable guy say was wrong. I explain that other than the ‘half-assed’ part, I really know nothing about cable tv and therefore couldn’t help. GC said he would have the elec. call the cable company to get a full explanation of the problem.
So GC calls us a couple of days later to say elec. is coming back out. Did he call the cable company? No, but you can explain the problem to him when he gets there. I really don’t know what the problem is. Well, he should be able to figure it out.
Elec shows up – “Hmm, well, it looks like the cable company already did everything that needs to be done – bye!” (DW was the only one home at the time and understands even less than I do about this stuff – so she didn’t argue with him).
So, we were paying all the subs directly along the way, and so of course, elec. has already been paid. What really frosts me is that he came in at almost $1000 over budget (on what was bid as a $2000 job) and now I find out that he really didn’t do all that good of a job.
So we’re down to the “balance due upon completion” part and I’d like some opinions on how to handle this. FWIW – GC hasn’t asked for final payment or even contacted us about punchlist items in over 1 month.
At this point I’m thinking my approach will be to tell the GC that the elec. either can’t or won’t fix the problem and I’m perfectly willing to hire the cable company to fix it and deduct any charges from his (the GC’s) bottom line. Of course, I don’t expect him to jump up and down and say “Gee, that sounds like a great idea” but I really don’t know how else to handle this. In any event, I do intend to withold that ‘balance due’ until the job is truly complete.
Any advice?
PS – Not looking for legal advice here, just opinions on how to best handle the situation.
TIA
Replies
If you hired and paid the subs directly, the GC has nothing to do with it, IMHO.
Deal with the electrician.
And keep in mind that the cable guy may not have told you the 100% truth - He may have been trying to adoid extra work on his part.
Sex is hereditary. If your parents never had it, chances are you won't either.
I would have another electrician come in that hasn't been involved to see what he/she thinks. Then go back to the electrician and tell him to fix it. Has he been around for a while? Does he guarantee his work? He should if not then you may have to take legal action. Again I am not an expert at this just married to a builder. What I do know that if you are having problems that originally should have been done right then the electrician should make good.Tamara
Thanks Tamara! Good idea...I'll consider that if things don't seem to be working out.
Thanks for the reply!
No, the subs were actually hired by the GC and are included in the contract - line items such as "Interior electrical, telephone, and cable tv to code", "Interior Painting and Trim work to match existing", "Exterior Painting to match existing", etc.
The GC had several subs bid for each job and we decided which to accept.
The electrical sub actually came highly recommended from the GC and came in with the lowest bid (I know, I know...).
We simply paid the subs directly because it was easier for us to keep on eye on the budget if we always knew exactly how much was going where. There was nothing in writing about how they were to be paid, just when each finished we'd ask how they wanted to handle it...we pay 'em or the GC pays 'em. Nobody (including GC) seemed to care one way or the other so we paid 'em.
Interesting thought about the cable guy and one that I had actually considered myself. But why? I mean, maybe I'm just being naive, but they're the cable company, isn't this what they do? What would he have to gain by misleading me? And he did say that they could do it but that we shouldn't have to pay extra for a job that wasn't done right in the fiirst place.
Anyway, thanks again for the reply.
Well, you've kinda got a strange situation. I honestly don't know WHAT to say now.
My point about the cable guy was that maybe he wasn't 100% honest because he wanted to avoid further work on his part. That's more or less what the electrician did, isn't it? Said it wasn't his problem, and walked away?
Maybe the other suggestion that was made about getting an independent opinion was valid.
And if the GC recommended this particular electrician, I would certainly remind him of that. Maybe more than once.
Hope it works out for you..............Never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself.
"My point about the cable guy was that maybe he wasn't 100% honest because he wanted to avoid further work on his part. That's more or less what the electrician did, isn't it? Said it wasn't his problem, and walked away?"
True, but my thinking is that the electrician knows the work he's done is sub-par and if he admits it, he'll have to fix it at no charge. The cable guy has nothing to lose...if he fixes someone else's shoddy work, he get's paid. Knowing that, he still suggested the electrician should fix it. Anyway, I guess it really doesn't matter...afterall, I have no way of knowing which one is telling the truth...perhaps a third, unbiased opinion would be best.
"And if the GC recommended this particular electrician, I would certainly remind him of that. Maybe more than once."
Good point! Maybe he's just blowing smoke, but the GC has already told me sveral times that he will not use this electrician again because of this and other issues we've had with him. Overall, he's just plain lazy. Gave me a hard time about several requests because it would be "too difficult"..."Oh, you want a light switch there? Well that's going to be pretty difficult, couldn't I just put it over here?", and "You want me to remove that ceiling fixture? That means I'm going to have to pull the wiring out of the wall...I can't just leave it in there you know. Why don't you just leave that fixture, it would be a lot easier that way.", etc. Even though I said I was fully aware that I would have to pay extra for anything that was not included in his bid.
Thanks again for the input.
I have had the same thing happen to me. My guess is that the wire he used was inappropriate. Here in NYC, the code/ norm changed maybe a year or so ago. Now we ONLY install quad sheilded coax cable. Many suburbs are now making the change since they are going to digital. Look at the cable and see what the markings on it are.
Quad sheilded cable is used to minimize static or other type or interferance. This usually occurs if the wire was run parrallel to a 120 v. wire or if it comes close to a florescent fixture. That is one of the reasons I steer clients away from florescents.
The only fix is to run a new wire. If he is any good he probably has figured this out and doesn't want to open that can of worms. Perhaps if you figure out the easiest route to lay the new cable and help him out by showing you feel his pain. The costly part is fixing the wall holes and repainting when he is done. This is the GC's nut. That's why he's not responding.
The cable guy's assessment may not be 100% accurate. He only installs how and what his work order says. He does not do diagnosis. His knowledge may be limited to how he would have installed instead of how to figure out what was installed by others.
On a contract of $2K how did you get a 50% upcharge? I would love clients like you. Got any work for me?
Thanks Frankie!
What type of markings should I look for on the cable?
Will it actually say "quad shielded"?
Im in CT - do you know if the same standard applies here?
And you seem to know about this stuff, so I'll throw a few more details at you.
You say "cable", I say cable's'. He actually installed 4 separate cable jacks (correct term?) and they all terminate in the basement - 4 separate cable lines come into the basement - where they are all fed into one giant splitter. This splitter has one feed cable that runs into the garage where it is connected via a splitter to what was an existing line that feeds another 'jack'.
This is where I think the problem is. He's splitting off an existing line to feed a splitter that feeds 4 additional lines. I would think that, at the very least, that giant splitter in the basement should have a direct feed from the box on the side of the house.
Hope I haven't confused you with all of my technical terminology ;-)
Any thoughts?
The GC should be fixing this because you ordered the work from him. He hired the sparkie, and is responsible for this guys work. The cable co. should be contacted for more details as to what the problem is with the installed cable.
As for all the spliters, the less there is the better, joints are alway a weak point.
Before we get too involved.
1. How many cable jacks are in the whole house?
2. Are they all homeruns - each jack has its own wire to the main splitter?
3. Have you tried using and not using the jack/ TV that is connected to the first splitter - the first one off the main line in the garage - while using another (any other) jack/TV? It should not make a differance but check it out anyway.
Sounds as though MUCH of the new wiring - cable and 120v - was run along the same route at least to get out of the basement. So you have the situation of coax cable running next to an parrallel to 120v cable. You may be able to fix it at this point instead of in the rest of the house. MUCH easier. By separating them you may be able to get away without using quad sheild.
The quad sheild rating is written on the coax cable, every few feet, very clearly. Probably the best place to see it is in the basement where the wire is not buried in a wall.
The splitter that is in the basement - what type is it. One feed on one side and three on the other or something out of a phone/ computer/ cable panel system?
Do you have florescent lighting in the basement which is close to the wire?
Photog,
The cable should at least be RG 6 QS, or it should be the same as the original cable. Mixing cables can cause static. The cable outlets that are not connected to a TV should have caps on them. I would disconnect from splitter and run to outside box for feed. You could also disconnect the coax one at a time to see if one was picking up interference.
KK
Edit. I type so slow I duplicated some points.
Edited 11/25/2002 6:15:46 PM ET by kkearney
I spent serveral years in the cable T. V . business during bad building reccessions . Dont ever let a cable T. V. company do anything to your home other than your approved installation . Try changeing Output ports around on the splitter and with visible reception you should be able to isolate the general area of the problem at the T.V set. The splitters themselves could create problems if the output to the TV is trying to pick up a digitally compressed signal(especially these days when a lot of signals are two-way RF) The splitters themselves could possibly be of a lower than compatible MHz rating than is necessary to provide quality output.
Several points that may be of interest.
Splitters should have plugs on all unused ports. Little resistor inside of a threaded cap. Possibly on your unused cable outlets as well. It after all an antenna picking up radio signals.
Can you see TV towers from your house? I can and the RF from those makes me arrange my furniture to get the least interference. Moving a TV or Stereo 3 feet can remove it from a standing wave from the towers. It IS hocus pocus but it has a dramatic effect on reception.
Tight connections are essential.
Did they remove the ground wire from the water pipe in your house? the first connection inside the house has a ground wire to the splitter to the water pipe.
All of the piece parts are at radio shack. Oh yes the boosters - don't. At least the one I have doesn't.
I would try running a new piece of RG6 back to the main cable junction box (just on the floor) and terminate it in the same port to see if the problem was with the routing and or cable type.
If you get clear reception you know where the problem orrigionates and who did the work. Next problem is getting them to solve it (assuming it is the electricians fault)
Photog,
You've gotten some good suggestions: make sure the splitter can handle the frequency range of the signal; cap unused ports. Feed the incoming signal direct to the two TVs that are acting up now, using the in-wall wiring and then using a length of RG6 QS run directly from the source on the floor. A home theater/video consultant would be a good choice for a third-party opinion on the cause of the problem. You may need a powered splitter (i.e., an amplifier).
If the experiments show that the cables are the problem, try re-terminating the coax runs at both ends. A single stray strand of the braid will mess things up as you describe, as will a bad (too tight) crimp. Also, a cable cut by a drywall hangers router is a problem...
If these simple things don't resolve the problem, it might be the cable in the wall, and it might not be the electrician's fault. Cables get damaged after they're installed--drywall screw, nail, accidental or intentional damage. If the sparky was a PITA to the other trades, a laborer have messed with the wires just for spite.
If you really want to pin it down, get a cable installer/troubleshooter with a time-domain reflectometer (TDR), and he or she will be able to tell you the general kind of damage, and how far away from the cable end it is! You'll have to find the right person in the cable co, and get them to do the work on the side. The cable co doesn't give a hoot about your inside wire...
As a last resort, I find it hard to believe that it would cost $2K to run two lengths of coax. An electrician with experience in "old work" or an alarm/security system installer can run wire in walls without opening the walls up. And let the GC absorb that cost.
Good luck.
Cliff
Photog,
I would call the GC tell him you're not satisfied, ask him to personally bring the electrican with him and look at the problem. I would also tell him the balance will not be paid until it's fixed.
Vince
Vince Carbone
I like the idea of temporarily connecting to the line in front of a splitter. Isolate the problem. If possible, map the lines and splitters used in a tree diagram, and see if there's a logic to the poor reception, such as it's all on one branch of the wiring "tree". If you're doing a whole house with a bunch of outlets, homeruns to a signal amplifier will beat daisy chains and split signals.
>I would also tell him the balance will not be paid until it's fixed.
Or twisting it into a positive statement, tell him the check in the full amount is written and ready, and will be handed over as soon as there is clear reception. At least he'll know you do intend to fulfill the contract and aren't just looking for a way to weasel out.
I read the first twelve or so posts, so Im not sure as to whether anyone else has touched on this point afterwards. It doesnt appear that the "cable guy" explained what the shoddy work actually was. I think it would be best to have the cable company put in writing what the actual problem is and how they would correct it in a detailed estimate. Blaming someone elses work without explaining how it is faulty sounds more to me like an attempt to make some money at your expense. Take the estimate to the GC and perhaps, as someone mentioned, get an independent electrician to verify the claims made by cable company. Whether the GC is happy with electrician or not, hes the one that hired him and is therefore responsable. Armed with the info you gather, you yourself have to understand little of installation procedures. Best of luck....let us know how you make out.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
General advice from a technical guy to an apparently non-techically minded person:
when anyone (your GC, the electrician, the cable guy) is explaining your situation to you don't just nod and say 'uh huh'.
They will assume that you are understanding and you will not remember if they said "Johnson rod" or "Franistat valve" after they have left and you are trying to explain it to the next guy.
Write it down.
Make them explain it until it becomes clear to you: why is the static occuring and why will their countermeasure they propose going to help.
When you have some understanding of your problem, and of the c/m idea(s) you can then have a meaningful discussion with them about how to implement it.
Otherwise you'll just get the runaround, each link in the chain blaming the other and you stuck with static and frustration.
1) Follow the diagnostic advice given by the others above (like running a cable directly from your TV to the source of the offending cable so that you can confirm if it is the cable or not). This will give you a more clear idea of what your problem is.
2) Get the GC and the electrician to come to your hose at the same time. Explain to them the results of your experiment and what it is that you want them to do for you (don't try to explain HOW, just WHAT).
3) Make it clear to your GC that you'll pay him AFTER he's resolved this for you.
I hope that all of the advice given at this web site is helpful to you in your problem.