The Rail here was warped up in the middle of the balustrade so the tops of the balusters would not stay in the top rail. To clamp it down a pipe clamp and a scrap of crown (with a concave surface fit nicely over the rail.
This also helped keep the doweled bottoms of the balusters tight to the floor, while the glue dried.
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Thats a cool trick. You have a mind geared to overcoming obstacles.
I normally use dowel screws in the bottom of ballusters. Keeps them tight and there is less chance of the hardwood nosing splitting.
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If you find yourself without a pipe clamp, a C-clamp on the nosing and a couple of bungee cords works in a pinch.
"Perfect is the enemy of Good." Morrison
Edited 6/21/2008 5:51 am by gordsco
A loop of good rope will also work--twist it with a piece of wood in the center to tighten and block that wood or clamp it to keep it from unwinding.
Rope's good, I like the bungee 'caus I can lift the rail slightly to insert the ballusters.
Fat co-workers are handy for holding things till the glue sets. "Perfect is the enemy of Good." Morrison
I do use the dowel screws on balusters with out the wood dowels at the bottom. With these I would have to cut all the dowels off first.Creative clamping sure can help things go together better.Here is a close up of the clamp:
Good-looking balusters - booger to paint?
Forrest
Is everything just glued? What kind did you use? If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
There are 3/4" dowels below the square bottoms of the balusters that are a snug fit into holes drilled with a spade bit into the floor. I put PL Premium in each hole.The baluster tops are pinned and glued to the rail with Titebond and there is fillet glued and pinned to the handrail between each baluster too.
Edited 6/21/2008 2:27 pm ET by basswood
What do you do to keep the PL from hydraulicing the pickets out of the holes?... and getting all over the place? I'd be very worried that rail wants to go back where it was, and that PL will creep with no mechanical fasteners. Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
The PL was used sparingly enough that I did not get any squeeze out at all. The assembly is held down at the ends by the newel posts lagged to the top rail and by the pipe clamp in the middle of the span (over the weekend).I think it will be fine...I'll see on Monday.
It's after Monday that would worry me<G>If I have a snug fit, I will always use carpenter's glue ( actually TiteBond III), I think it soaks in some for a better bond. A looser fit might call for some kind of construction adhesive, I just don't trust it completely against withdrawal forces... so I'd have to put some toe pins in there... I'm old but can't get stuck in some ways<G> Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
fillet glued and pinned to the handrail between each baluster too.I've never glued the fillet, worked on some 100+ year old stairs & they weren't glued either. What do you see as the benefit? What I am going to start doing is dovetailing in my balusters where the situation allows. The job I did awhile back with dovetailed balusters was rock solid & the extra time was at most an hour.
Dovetailing has always seemed like a good way. How would you do that in a landing tread like Basswood shows? Do you see an advantage over dowel screws? And, did you dovetail the baluster pins, or better, how'd you do that? Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
I glue fillets because I micro pin them in, and depending which way I start, it's tough getting nails in either the top or bottom fillets on a rake rail. Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
dovetailing the balusters on a landing would be problematic with out careful layout and as such I would most likely use the double end dowel screws. The point which occurs to me is I see no advantage to glueing the fillet, in fact a dis-advantage in case you need to work on the rail- 20-50 years from now. Dovetailing the balusters in on mitered returned treads is fast-and I do mean fast. That being said I have a furniture background & hand-cut dovetails are a treat- not an obstacle. The difference between a doweled baluster and a dovetailed one is something which has to be felt to be appreciated.
on the pins- I order the balusters long, so I can cut off the dowels & cut one-side dovetails.
Interesting on the one cut dovetails. I've taken apart old sets that were double sided. Some were loose. Didn't need to be repaired, just removed. I glue everything on a set of stairs... I'm not thinking they're supposed to be re-worked<G>You don't glue your furniture together? Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
Well, here's what I got so far.
http://76.74.159.40/~sfstairs/--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
106052.23 in reply to 106052.22
Interesting on the one cut dovetails. I've taken apart old sets that were double sided. Some were loose. Didn't need to be repaired, just removed. I glue everything on a set of stairs... I'm not thinking they're supposed to be re-worked<G>You don't glue your furniture together?I do glue most things.
The older staircase I rebuilt was in a home where the owner wanted to bring back the house to orginial condition anywhere possible. A number of the balusters were cracked, chipped or broken. Since almost nothing was glued I could fairly easily remove the parts. Had new balusters turned to match the old & reinstalled. The fillet had been nailed, since none were loose 100+ years later I figured glue wasn't really required & would have meant ruining them in the removal process.
In that case I would most certainly work to existing conditions, too.When working with returned treads, I usually have to knock the returns off anyhow. Most stairs need to have the treads ripped, and I like to keep the returns' overhang the same as the nose, so they've got to be cut and re-rounded. The returns usually knock off pretty easily. Most are only glued for a few inches at the miter/swoop, tee nails hold the rest. Be fairly simple to cut the housing then. Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
I agree wholeheartedly about glue in places it has no business.
In both Lutherie and Pipeorgan restoration, the most crucial point about adhesives is , IS IT Reversable? I have tried to undo so many things that were glued wrong and with the wrong glue , it drives me nuts.
Makes one a fan of hot hide glue real fast.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
cut one-side dovetails.
Is this something that you have implemented or is it something that you have seen in older homes. I've worked on quit a few older homes that had double sided dovetails, even did a few with the traditional dovetail fit but always two sided. I did a tiger maple handrail with cherry balusters in a 1840's home and when it was dry fitted I doubt there was a glued and screwed handrail job that was any tighter! No fillets, round rail so all balusters were fit into the rail with a tapered hole.
I agree with you that it doesn't add all that much time (one hour might be a bit optimistic for me though!) and when done the balusters are not going to move/come loose.
Doug
I used the 23 ga. micropinner on the fillet. When I use the 23 ga. I use some glue too.Dovetails would be nifty for balusters.
The average staircase I work on has 25 ballusters.
Considering it takes me 15 mins to install a rail bolt...
I hava feeling it would take me a tad more than an hour to dovetail 13 treads, 25 ballusters and install the mitered endcaps.
"Perfect is the enemy of Good." Morrison
I should have made clear that I was considering cutting the tails on the balusters only, not cutting the sockets in the treads.
I've done just one rebuild on a staircase from the late 1800's which were dovetailed on one side. I based the time on how long it took to cut the tails on that job. There were only about a dozen which were replaced so I may have been a bit optimistic about the time involved, but I don't think by very much. The fit didn't have to be all that presice, the screw & wedge really helped lock everything together.
I make my own treads so cutting the sockets in the shop would take some time. If you bought them with the miters already attached it would be impractical- imo.
The painter did a nice job on them...he used a great oil-based Benjamin Moore product sprayed on.
I went on a repair once, when I was working for the stair company. They send me with a new rail to replce the one that was 1/2" bowed upward. I thought of just doing something like you did should work, but they wanted me to replace it. So I get there and start taking things apart. Turns out the balusters toward the middle were cut too long. Apparently the installer started at one end and, fitting them tight, had managed to push the rail up that much by the time he reached the middle. I cut the balusters to all the same height and reinstalled the original rail. Then they told me I should have used the new baluster so the customer wouldn't know it was an installation screw-up. Problem is, the customer was there the whole time I made the repair.
Hmmph, company politics.
Thanks for sharing the tip. :)
--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.net
See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Thanks Ted,It sounds like a tip today, but yesterday as balusters kept popping out of the top rail--just after I got them all in--it was an act of desperation. ;o)Bass
Oh, I realize your's was a case of a bowed rail. I was just relaying my story because you post made me think of it. I guess I sort of hijacked your topic. :)--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Ted,Yours was a good story...hi-jacks welcome.Bass