I am not a pro cabinet installer by any stretch of the imagination. That is why I am asking the questions here.
Do pro cab installers ever use leg levelers? If not, why not? If so, please discuss your methods.
My cabinet supplier ships me RTA frameless cabinetry, and the base cabs have no toekick. Each carcase has a “floor,” sides, back, and top. Plastic adjustable leg levelers are what the cabinets stand on, like legs. I am sure you have all seen these.
The kind we get have separate top flanges that fasten to the carcase floor bottom faces with screws, and then the screw “leg” pressfits with a snap into the flange receiver. We put two legs near the front corners of each cab, and one or two legs in the back, depending on cab width (15″ and narrower get one).
We use a PLS2 laser to establish the “top of cab” line, after gaging some critical input such as floor condition or a windowsill that is tight to countertop, then get some floor readings at the locations where the legs will bear. The floor readings will establish how “long” or “short” we make the initial set on the legscrews.
With the legs on, and preset to “initial trial” heights, we set the cabs in place, tweak the legscrews a little to get everything to come to a line, then screw them together at their fronts.
The legs we use adjust by use of a long straightblade screwdriver stuck into slots in the feet, then turning like the handle of a long wrench. We don’t use the kind you adjust through a hole you bore in the cab floor. Before we screw the cabs to the wall, we get under the toespace with the tool, tweak a little more to come right to the line, then drive screws.
Toekick boards go on last, and clip to the front legs with the plastic snap clips that come with the legscrews. Back when we screw-fixed the flanged leg receivers to the carcase bottoms, we used a gage block to get a fixed and common setback. The nice thing about the clip-on toekick method, though, is that the clips allow some variation in leg placement, and still will hold the kicks well.
If the floors have humps and dips, and what floors don’t, we scribe and grind the kickboards to come nicely to the finish.
Replies
Do pro cab installers ever use leg levelers?
I don't know how many kitchens that I have installed but I do know how many had those adjustable legs, ONE.
Wasn't a bad idea just never seen the big deal with them.
I build cabinets and have never gave to much thought to using them. I like to build my toekicks separate from the cabs. Its easier for me to install the toekicks separate, then just sit the cabs on top and screw together.
I usually skin the toekick when all is done, that way they don't get dinged up by floor guys.
Doug
A guy I know that scratchbuilds a lot of kitchens does it maybe like you are describing.
He builds his carcases as "cubes without legs," then fixes a continuous front "subtoe" support, shimming as required to get level. It is that sub-board that you can kick, nick, or otherwise deface, before the final skins go on at the end.
In his variation, there is no back support. The cabs bear on that front subtoe thing, and rely on the rear screws into studs and blocking to hold up the back edge of the heavy stone countertops.
Sound similar, I make the toe kick four sided though. completely supporting.
When my cabinets sit on top I put a couple screw in through the base of the carcass and a few in the walls. Done and done. don't have to try to level up a big box.
Doug
I had a kitchen install last winter in an 1835 house where the room was a combo of two additions...........
Built a continuous kick off the diagram on the floor (Guertinesque) and ordered the cabs sans toe kick. Now that is a fine system in a goofy situation. Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Been reading some more on leg levelers over at Woodweb and now have a new thing to try.
There is a tremendous amount of input from pro installers there. Check it out at http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Working_With_Leg_Levelers.html when you have some time to go through all the posts.
Shoot around with the laser to determine what's going on, elevation-wise, then get the line on the wall, another line on the wall down at carcase bottom elevation, then screw a ledger to that lower line. The base cabs will bear on that ledger.
Do the leg leveler thing, but only on the front corners of the carcases. The kind of levelers we get have a wideflange socket and are meant to span so as to support two cabs if wanted. We'll let the narrow cabs go and "share" the legs of the box adjacent.
We'll save money on legscrews, and won't need to reach into the back recess to do final adjustments.
And this quote, from one of the Woodweb forum posters:
"Keep in mind that while leg levelers are parts which need to be purchased, they replace parts that have to be shop manufactured - and the cost of labor and material quickly outpaces the cost of the hardware pieces."
The first time we used these, and snapped on the toekicks, no visible fasteners, we said, "Well, isn't that slick!" Snap-off toekicks make for a great place to put the things you don't want the burglars, or cops, to find.
Edited 10/4/2005 10:46 pm ET by Stinger
Gene
Snap-off toekicks make for a great place to put the things you don't want the burglars, or cops, to find.
Well its always good to have a good hiding place!
I looked at the link, I'll give it a little more time later.
Thanks
Doug
Edited 10/5/2005 12:07 am ET by DougU
It's becoming more common.
I remember a Pohgenpol (sp) I did way back with legs like that and I thought WTF is up with this?
Think how much material is saved, weight and space in shipping.
I don't care for them and the toe kick becomes a joke.
It's European where it is said; when people move they up and take their cabinetry with them.
Build the toe base and set the cabs on top. I'm not a big fan of that either but THAT is VERY common.
Eric
It's Never Too Late To Become
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have installed a coupla them.
not enough to make that system prefered. (to me)
it's all just what you're used to.
the one's I have installed have had pretty beefy kick material so that hasn't been a concern.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa