please describe your methods for determining high and low spots in subfloor to determine base cabinet height level…
brian
please describe your methods for determining high and low spots in subfloor to determine base cabinet height level…
brian
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Replies
sometimes board sometimes knot
That's a pretty rude answer.
Joe H
???
In what way was that rude ?Don't bogart the Ghost
Quittin' Time
Nah, just both question and answer were brief and to the point without the public relations niceity chit chat stuff.
It's all in the beholder anyhow.
Check out Larry Norman's web site. A laugh. I'm sure the 'walking backwards' tune is available in there somewhere. Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
I guess I needed some kinda little happy face thingee :) ?
It was the original question that was rude as hell, the answer was great. Somewhere there's a thread about email etiquette, this guys' question kinda belongs there.
So what's the little happy face for "sarcasm intended"? Or maybe "didn't your mother teach you any manners?"
Joe H :)
Ya, I try to continually remind myself of the necessity of precision it regards to accurately transmitting data and meaning in dialogue over this cyber communication stuff. No natural body english, facial expressions or hand gestures to read from.
At times I find myself rereading an old post and find something I said , realizing the wording I displayed didn't really convey what I was attempting to say. Or I didn't bother to reread or use spell check on a post and find out the whole meaning was twistedly construed and could be taken a completely different way, sometimes unplanned, laughable double intenders.
With that in mind I try to read between the lines to the intent of a post and let the 'etiquette necessity rules' slide since so many variables can be in operation at any one time.
I think the original posters intent was just to gather data over a present or upcoming job since he also posted a cabinet question in another thread. Kinda like a business letter as I recall the word 'please' if I remember correctly. Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
That's a pretty rude answer.
My apologies JoeH, but what was your advice on the query?
sometimes board mostly knot
I differ with all of the advice already given.
First, get a bunch of 2x6's. Make a frame for all the cabs to sit on. Shim level and scribe. After you're done scribing set cabs on top. Screw cabs to 2x6. Now your dishwasher has room for a pan to catch all the water when it leaks.
If you want to do away with the tricky backsplash detail, use a 2x12 under the 2x6. The 18" base does away with all the mess of tile, bead board, etc.
You neglected to mention the recommendation of pressure treated wood in your scenerio. Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
well, Rez,
That goes without saying. Every professional knows to use PT for the bottom layer of his base cab levelers. I mean, you think we're talking to amatuers here?Jon Blakemore
Seriously, now....a straightedge and a level to see how it looks basically....but not much of an issue since I moved to plastic leg levellers.....just level them all up to the line and screw them home.cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
So now you're taken ta callin' me a woodbutcher now are ya?Hmmm...I wonder if I could save some money using SR screws in my pressure treated? Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
Screws! Who said anything about screws?
I just use my 18 ga. 2" bostitch nailer. That keeps 'em where they need to be. Besides, gravity's in our favor, right?Jon Blakemore
2 inch? Wow! I found that if you use a framing canister from your impulse framer in your impulse trimmer that the 1 1/4 inch trimmers will bury down deep in the wood, and you have to push the wood real hard with your hand before it will move.
We amateurs have to cut corners somewhere to make things go.
Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
Edited 10/18/2002 12:49:15 PM ET by rez
Now that you mention it...
I have used a hammer tacker with good effect. Just use a nail set to get the staples to the proper depth... Holds like a charm.
Jon Blakemore
Roar! I give up.
Unless you're talkin' duct tape.
Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
Edited 10/18/2002 3:40:10 PM ET by rez
Duct tape is now used for wart removal.
Ya ya'know. I wonder who decides to release news tidbits like that. An obscure news report gets released somewhere and suddenly it is repeated everywhere. Heard it on Tv, from friends local newspaper and probably will be somewhere in Wall Street Journal.
It's how they control group thought. Andy's right. It's a conspiracy! Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
Actually, it has been recommended by many doctors for years. Only the widespread circulation of the news is new.
I had a thought today. Up on the roof doing my yearly pilgrimage with my pail of wet/dry roof cement when the idea hit me. Why lug that thing up and down the ladder when I could sit it on top of the plywood covering the top of the chimney and save myself the trouble of the heavy hauling every year. Sometimes I'm so smart I surprise myself. Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
PT...
why not redwood or cedar @ 3/4"?
brian
Yessir, that'll beat it hands down. Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
i must admit that i'm not clear what you're "scribing" on your leveling base... the 2x6 edge against a wall? a 2x12 under a 2x6 gives me an 18" base? what tricky backsplash detail?
maybe i'm brain fading here...
brian
"...maybe I'm brain fading here..."
No, he's just messin' with ya...
put 6' level on floor and push it around.
listening for the secret.......searching for the sound...
I disagree!
I get out the 7' level and push that around!
Used to use the 4'....and do more pushing........but the 7'er looks more impressive to the customers.
I worked once with a guy that had a rotating lazer level.....I pushed my level around the floor and had the high stop marked before he had the thing unpacked and set up.
Moral of the story.......you're just trying to find the highspot.......ya don't have to split hairs and know exactly how high it is......
2' level duct taped to a 8' straight edge would do ya just fine.
Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
your suggestion is basically the direction i want to go. using what i have and what is readily attainable, i was considering mounting a robolaser (the basic torpedo level guy with magnetic base) on wood stock straight edge. better done on an 8' steel straightedge (which our company welder probably has or can obtain for us).
from end to end, determine high point, shim level, mark walls at both ends, get to 34 1/2" above high point, mark walls... good to go? problem really is that one must determine high point front to back of cabinets as well, requiring sliding across the floor side to side and front to back. i see room for error using this approach.
logic then dictated a planar approach, like sheet goods of some kind, also readily available (say waste from 5/8" particleboard build-up... frameless cabinets here). much the same result as the 2x6 levelling cleat described within the thread (the owner is supplying the materials and we are not supplied with 2x6) for our purpose (just predeterming base cab height line around kitchens). shim underneath (setting shims with adhesive) where cab edges would fall, lift plane away and set cabs.
the PT 2x6 levelling base is the best way to go, but mill's no pride's stock melamine toe kick just covers the base cab toe kick allowance and i wouldn't be able to mask the additional material underneath. considering mill's no pride cabs are constructed of PB, the PT base would put my mind at ease as far as longevity goes. you guys wouldn't go with say a 3/4"x 4" PT levelling base frame??? with underlayment and tile thickness at about 1/2", this gives the base cabs some, if little, elevation that i can work with...
brian :-)>
ps the happy face is the best that i can do to simply represent Willie Nelson. it's a reference to my favorite joke to ever come from the Tavern. you dedicated members may have caught it around last April (when i quit on the board because of the frame layout - i'm on an 8" laptop screen). the one about The King, a tattoo artist, and the Willie Nelson metaphor... tried to locate it with the search function. seems to have been deleted...
ps2 true enough, i used to sub my cab work out to professionals when i worked for myself. now working for a company, with guys lacking experience or trade aptitude, under a production schedule demanding complete remodelling (demo, alterations, paint, installs) in 4 weekdays or less, down from 10 days, then five days, now 4 days, and looking for 3 days!!!! no time to f*** around (we do, but not about our results).
at some point i will web publish documentation of the project. want to be able to back everything i say and do. that is what makes everyone's input so valuable. so in one sense, it boils down to (project and documentation) editing responsibility.
i practice a participative management style to my decision-making. between myself and others on the job, basically the same alternatives posted here had come out. i came here because something was missing in my overview. leaving the levelling plane on the floor in the form of a base was the missing element.
i needed your input.
you guys are great,
brian O ;-)
(the symbols are only for fun... kinda inside jokes. don't get ticked off)
(to get this symbolism, check out my favorite joke in the Tavern thread, ie. piffin)
Link - gotta have a link.
Piffin is such a jokester how do we know which one?.
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=23295.54
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 10/18/2002 8:20:15 AM ET by piffin
It sounds to me as though that concrete floor is a roller coaster, I'd consider leveling the floor to eliminate high spots. Check with a local flooring company for the appropriate concrete based product for your particular application. Add several hours to the project to allow time for application, drying time, etc...
sometimes board sometimes knot
floors are pretty wavy.
first, we eliminate the bounce in the floor where the tile is subjected to traffic. we open the subfloor to brace between I joists (set 24" o.c. and covered with 5/8" ply, not 3/4"), reinstall new 5/8" ply, then a build[-up of 3/4" ply to come up to cement height.
went to install underlayment (Hardi) in the next units kitchen. the 3/4" ply left us level at the entry, but a 1/4" shy at the opposite end and along our main run of base cabs.
with limited time and materials available, we installed the Hardi to existing floor level + 1/16" at the end opposite the entry and at the cab run, leaving us 1/4 " high at the entry. levelled off remaining existing floor surface around the Hardi with Vitex (had no time for 2 - 3 hour set times). though no thickness allowance is stated on Vitex, i used to use Durabond Webpatch for surfacing floors prior to vinyl installs and that product stated 1/8" maximum thickness. above that, we had to switch to a second Durabond product (a cementous product that was designated by a # that i can't recall) mixed with latex additive. the cabinet installer is going to be much happier, but...
can i get opinions here on Vitex as an appropriate material for levelling floors under ceramic tile? or maybe i should start a new thread...
good night all
brian <:-) zzzzzzzzz
In all seriousness (the first potion of your #16 if I'm reading you correctly) you will want to keep in mind the limits that are imposed by appliances and trim pieces. For instance, a run of cabs where the floor is 3/4" from level. You could shim up the low end 3/4", but your dw might not fit (dish washer, not the wife) as well, and the low end that's been shimmed up will now be 3/4" taller than the 34-1/2" finished end panel that you've been given as a part of the cab package. Why they don't give us a few extra inches on those, I don't know...
Jon Blakemore
This is a great application for one of the new laser level gizmo's. They're getting pretty cheap too. You don't need a motorized, rapid-rotation type. Find one that will trace a level line around your kitchen, and then measure floor to red dot in a number of locations. Shortest measurement is your high spot, and away you go.
If your boxes have integral toelicks, screw the individual boxes in each run together first, then level the whole run at one shot ... way faster than a box at a time.
longest run of cabs is two, broken by a space for the dw, then a cab in the corner. 90 degrees off that is the space for the range, then another corner cab. we cannot even prescrew the two cabinets together because we must lift the ink base over h2o risers coming up through the floor. we have a robolaser (the torpedo level model) and it's grat for initial determining the high spot in the floor, which ultimately determines final cabinet height line.
we have chosen to create an adjustable levelling base template out of 3/4" stock with tracks (distance between walls vary by 6") and adjustable rails (set at cab edge positions) which we will shim under at cab edge positions, then remove, and set cabs.
if one had sheet goods that can span the length of the installation, one could simply drop 3/4" stock at 21" deep and level on the floor at cab positions marked on the template, and pull. or scab together pieces to create the run (currently what we are doing)...
for our installation, there are only 4 base cabinets, so it's really not much trouble to place cabs and level, only my guy (i've nicknamed him "rabbit" - get the picture) doesn't get it right the first time. so i began looking for alternatives that may work every time.
brian