Replies

1. 
   IronHelix | Jul 12, 2004 03:32am | #1

   It is usually done after the basement footings and walls are poured, but before the basement floor is poured.  

   The exact placement and configuration is determined by the first floor plan/plumbing drops and the basement floor plan with plumbing specs. It is placed below the basement slab elevation and above the sewer service elevation.

   Remember to plan for the main 4" pipe to have a minimum 1/8" of drop per foot of run and to allow for apropriate vents for the whole system and each fixture in the house.

   Check the sewer main elevation to confirm enough drop for the distance of run before you pour the footings and walls. The sewer hook=up elevation often controls/influences the elevation/placement of the house on the lot. 

    Confirm before digging. Murphy's law prevails here.

   ................Iron Helix

1. 
   kazm | Jul 12, 2004 04:23am | #2

   Thanks, your comments helped a lot toward my understanding. 

   So the drain pipe actually runs under the footing?

2. 
   BillHartmann | Jul 12, 2004 04:32am | #3

   Isnt' the sewer stubbed through/under the footing first?

1. 
   ClevelandEd | Jul 12, 2004 04:55am | #4

   Maybe there are different methods to get the same thing done.   Mine was run under the footing after that footing was in place. 

2. 
   WayneL5 | Jul 12, 2004 04:59am | #5

   The placement as stated above is correct, providing you have slope from the basement to the sewer line, of course.  If you are going to install a septic system and your land does not have considerable slope, then the drain runs through the basement wall at any convenient elevation, but is usually fairly high, say 5 or 6 feet above the floor so you have slope to the tank.  That precludes drains in the basement without some sort of pump.

   You would probably want to design your house so the cleanout is not in a carpeted room.

1. 
   ajm | Jul 12, 2004 06:04am | #6

   if you are planning to connect basement floor drains to your sanitary sewer it would be a good idea to check with your local building inspectors or wastewater treatment plant before you do. I belive under many cities ordaninces this is not legal as it is part of their sanitery/ storm sewer separation rules given by the EPA. Just a bit of inside info (I spent some time working on my cities sewer crew) these drains are notorious for surcharging in big rainstorms and flowing sewage back into your basement.

1. 
   IronHelix | Jul 12, 2004 02:07pm | #7

   Kaz.....are you on septic or municipal sewer?   It will effect your plans, as will your site elevations.

   You can have a basement with fixtures drained at floor level and a septic system...just depends on the site.

   Bill...locally the plumbers are notoriously behind schedule.....the sewer line is usually punched under the footing.  Besides it is easier for them to measure off the poured walls than the batter board strings......a lot less Rube Goldnerg'ing!

   ...............Iron Helix

1. 
   kazm | Jul 12, 2004 03:17pm | #8

   I am on municipal sewer.  I have contacted the local officials as regards the depth of the sewer.  It is in an older part of town and it once had a building on it that was torn down, but I don't think there has ever been a sewer on the property.

   What about back flow to the basement?  Is there some sort of valve I can install to stop this?

1. 
   ajm | Jul 12, 2004 10:49pm | #9

   checkvalves are notoriously unreliable (at least in my neck of the woods).if the sewer system in your area is older then it is probably what is called a combined sewer (wastewater and storm)these are what surcharges with rainwater and floods basements. are you planning on haveing basement fixtures such as a bathroom or clotheswasher? what I did on my place was bring in the sewer up on the wall then tie all basement plumbing into a sewage pump and pit. and pump that up to main house drain. probably some here wouldnt do it that way but it was how I was most comfortable with basement fixtures (IMHO)

2. 
   WayneL5 | Jul 12, 2004 11:54pm | #10

   Sewage backing up into the basement is not a normal thing.  If the municipal system is properly engineered and installed it won't happen.  Check with your neighbors to see if it ever happened.  If it never did, I would not do anything different to protect against it.  If it does happen in your area, contact local experts to see what they do, and beat on the politicians to fix it.

3. 
   ClevelandEd | Jul 13, 2004 02:34am | #11

   Might depend on where you live.  Locally municipal officials are unconcerned about addressing backup problems. 

4. 
   GotAll10 | Jul 13, 2004 02:47am | #12

   If you do install check-valves in the floor drains (it's usually a floating ball)  make sure you pour water into the drain periodically.  I recently had the sewer back up into the basement during a rainstorm.  I called the plumber the next day to put in a check valve in the floor drain so that it would not happen again.  He chuckled, stuck a long screw-driver down the drain, wiggled it around and the little ball popped right up.  He then said "I put this drain in myself 10 years ago".  The drain had always been dry and the ball was stuck.

   Ha Ha Ha

5. 
   DanH | Jul 16, 2004 05:33pm | #19

   Another problem with the check valves in the drains is that they can stick closed. This means that when the washer overflows water will flood out of the laundry room and into the rest of the basement unless you're there to poke at the ball.

6. 
   WayneL5 | Jul 13, 2004 03:09am | #13

   If the local officials don't care about the hazard of raw sewage backing up into homes, the state health officials would be the next letters to write.  Then getting the local officials out of office would be the next priority.

7. 
   ClevelandEd | Jul 13, 2004 04:55am | #14

   That is like trying to move the unmovable into action.  In this area I think investing in a good check valve would be more productive.   

8. 
   kazm | Jul 14, 2004 07:32am | #15

   I think you are right.  Did find out our sewer and storm drain are two different entities.

3. 
   gdavis62 | Jul 14, 2004 10:58pm | #16

   I lived in Ft. Wayne, Indiana, and that town, and many others in the midwest, had municipal sewer systems that were problematic, in that they are somehow "combined" with their storm drainage systems.

   In times of heavy rain and flooding, the sanitary sewers could back up as much as five feet.  That can mean a toilet in a basement will look like a fountain, spouting brown septic waste, unless you are plumbed right.

   Because of that, sewage drains installed by reputable plumbing contractors exited the basements high up on the walls, rather than down at footing height or below.  That exit needs to be above the level your municipal sewer can experience in the worst of floods.

   Those wanting plumbing drains in a basement level needed to go first into a small lift station, which pumped the sewage via a grinder pump up to the drain exit.

   So here is my answer to your question.  Don't ask us, ask your local plumbing contractors.  And ask a few, just to be sure.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 7/14/2004 5:44 pm ET by Bob Dylan

1. 
   ajm | Jul 20, 2004 06:01am | #20

   I am over here in defiance OH, maybe our part of the world is the only one with comined sewers.j/k what you described is what I explained earlier but I think you described it better..

1. 
   ClevelandEd | Jul 20, 2004 06:11am | #21

   Combined sewers north of you here in Cleveland too.  Ohioans never had much inclination to keep the water clean until forced to by the EPA.

1. 
   ajm | Jul 20, 2004 02:04pm | #22

   well the age of our infrastructure has alot to do with it too. sewer seperation is extremely expensive, so it gets put off as long as possible. as far as adding pollution, it really doesnt add any. and to qoute a much used phrase in the sewer tratment field "The solution to pollution is dilution".

4. 
   maverick | Jul 16, 2004 04:35pm | #17

   Running a pipe under a poured footing sounds like an after thought, poor planning. Not to mention disturbing all that nicely compacted gravel.

   stub the pipe through the wall or under the footing before you pour.

   you'll also want the waste pipe to exit the house closest to the sewer line to keep a reasonable pitch.

5. 
   DanH | Jul 16, 2004 05:30pm | #18

   In general, you want to install the sewer service connection before the footings are poured, if it's coming in below floor level. Also install "pass-thru" pieces for the footing drains. The rest of the footing drains would be installed after the footing is poured, and then everything else can wait until the basement walls are in.

   Rather than a check valve for the sewer connection, a manual shut-off may be the way to go. Requires you to be there, of course, and always likely to be activated "a little too late", but otherwise more reliable.