I’ve borrowed a neighbor’s battery charger a couple times so now i think i should have my own. His was a funky old thang and one time i found the battery boiling and i have no idea why that was, but it didn’t seem good.
Any pros or cons? Good brands to get or avoid? Safety issues? This will just be for autos and lawn tractors, not boats or my D-9. <G>
Here’s one i found on Amazon with decent reviews…comments? (I tried to research battery sites and frankly got overly confused.)
http://www.amazon.com
Related…do those solar battery chargers for keeping a battery topped up really work? I have a Vanagon that doesn’t get used very often in the wintertime.
Replies
OK, i lied about the D-9, but i figure chicks with a '66 Power Wagon with a winch are a-dime-a-dozen so i embellished. Still, i got a charge (98.6V) out of your response!
What's with the deleted messages?
I keep a battery tender on my motorcycle like this one: http://www.amazon.com.
I am pretty sure it would work for a car too, but it doesn't have a fast charge mode. You don't really need it if you keep the battery charged up. If you want to use it for multiple batteries, just get additional connectors for each battery and leave it connected to each battery for a week at a time.
That one runs off house current, i think (?) and my excess vehicles are parked too far from the house for that. I could remove the battery every time and bring it indoors , but it's under the passenger seat and something of a hassle, which is why i'm thinking solar. This is just a wintertime phenom - in the summer it's never a problem.
This is just a wintertime phenom - in the summer it's never a problem.
When it is minus 20F a typical lead acid battery does not provide much in the way of cranking power.
When son went to Pullman WA for college, he took the battery inside for the night when it was to get under -10F, never a problem starting without a charger.
For wintertime only problem as you describe, a solar 'charger' would be just about useless.
I have not seen a 'good' battery charger retail for under $200, most under that amount are the same cheap transformer and rectifier with added 'bells an' whistles' ;
SO, the $10 cheapie (any brand) on sale at WalMart or Schucks with 10A rating is just as good as a $50 unit (or even $150) that makes you feel good 'cause it has a screen and some readouts. A long extension cord is no problem for a 10A battery charger, it actually improves the charge algorithm.
Thanks for the input. I'm not concerned with a fancy read-out and all, just with safety after the experience of the borrowed charger making my battery boil like a tea kettle. It sounds like a power-down is standard since that one was made. I don't think i'll spring $200 for something i truly need maybe a couple times a year.Perhaps i ought to just pull the battery on the VW...it's a hassle, though, under the seat. I tried to start it up last week when it was about 10 degrees and it wasn't dead, but it didn't go, either. I'll figure something out...i have lots of extension cords! It's a shock to my mental apparatus that a long cord could be better than a short one, though. Thanks again; that's useful stuff.
If the car will sit until spring, and assuming there's some small continuous current drain going on (say, to keep the dashboard clock running or for the memory in the radio) you may just want to disconnect the battery instead of removing it altogether. If the battery's in good shape and fully charged, it should be able to sit for the winter and still have a charge when spring comes. That's what I've done for years with my summer vehicles here in MN and I haven't any problems.
As Junkhound mentioned, when I was a college student and my car was parked far away from an electrical outlet, I'd keep the battery in my dorm room and it would be warm and ready to go if I had to drive somewhere. It was a pain hauling that heavy thing back and forth across campus, though.
I tried disconnecting the battery like you advise in my Power Wagon bec i think it does have some small drain (sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't), but that didn't help it enough to start it in winter. I buy the batteries with the best CCA ratings so the quality of the battery probably isn't the issue. After all i've heard I think bringing them indoors sounds like the smart option even if it's a hassle. Have handtruck, will travel! Thanks for the input.
If you bring them inside, don't sit them on a concrete floor.And I prefer not to have them on metal shelves.A small wooden pallet, (even if you make it yourself), with a rubber mat on it, is the best place to sit one.
Everybody is born a hero.
A master electrician told me that bit of folklore a few years ago so i checked it out and found with improvements in battery cases that it's no longer true; you can store them willy-nilly now.
Edited 12/3/2007 5:04 pm by splintergroupie
I guess I'm a bit older than that old battery charger you borrowed. LOL
Everybody is born a hero.
For a small battery charger, I'd definitely go for an automatic one. I tend to hook chargers up and forget about them, so the automatic ones are great. You can leave 'em hooked up for days and it won't hurt the battery. I just go for simple one, like this:http://jyuelii.manufacturer.globalsources.comThe one you linked to is 10 amps - You realize that one won't START, a vehicle, don't you? Like if you have a dead battery you can't just hook that up, jump in, and fire the thing up. If you want that much, you need to find a roll around charger with a lot of boost. I have one like this:http://www.autobarn.net/xxxw-aso6012.htmlThat might be a bit of overkill for you. But I deal with a lot of equipment that sits, so the boost is real handy.
Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.
The little charger is all i need; i don't do emergencies. <G>
The one in the main vehicle never needs jumping....unless i forget and leave the overhead light on, which i've done a few times since the light is behind the seat; in my old Toyota truck it was over the mirror and more obvious. I'm hoping in another couple years i'll get trained up to check that before closing the door.
I normally have another vehicle available in the summer for a jump if i have a battery run down, but the winter is darned hard on batteries and i've had to replace some batteries after only a few years in the lesser-used vehicles like my Power Wagon. ($$$$!) I need to start being better about maintenance. I also need to sell some vehicles!
re: battery boil like a tea kettle
Probably more than you want to know, but since you mentioned the neighbor's charger was an old one, there is a rather simple explanation that may ease your concerns with using a newer cheap charger. BTW, the 'boiling' is actually hydrogen generation via electrolysis, and it is a concern as it can cause a battery to literaly explode. You need to disconnect typical old chargers no later than 8-10 hours after connection.
Years back, some POCOs power was 110 Vac or 115 Vac, nearly everybody now is pretty cose to 120 Vac.
To get the optimum battery charge voltage, the transformer turns ratio was set to produce 13.9 volts or so for pre 1970s batteries vs. the 13.5 volt optimum for todays 'maintenance free' lead acid batteries (due to slight change in chemistry of the grids that holds the red lead).
The increase from 110 to 120 plus the decrease from 13.9 to 13.5 means that an old charger on a modern battery put about 12% higher voltage on the cells, resulting in the electrolysis H2 generation.
FWIW, I have probably 15 chargers of various compexity, most are cheapies bought for a dollar or 2 at garage sales. First thing I do with a garage salew charger is check the voltage both unloaded and loaded with a good accurate meter, and add another diode or 2 in series with the outputs to lower the voltage. Some of the old $1 garage sale items even have old selemium rectifiers, which I replace with a Silicon diode bridge.
The best charges retail for over $1k, put out over 200 A continuous if needed, and follow a precise voltage current algorithm based on battery type and chemistry.
The lead acid battery chargers in Minuteman silos cost even considerably more, one guy I've worked with spent 6 months of his life designing it. <G>
Present day DIYs can get a good chip with the algorithms encoded from national semiconductor for $2 or $3.
Like you, i'm a big fan of buying used and fixing up, but my ability with electricity extends only to wiring my houses. I bought a multimeter and figured i'd teach myself how to use it, but i ended up scaring the #### out of myself when i blew it up. I'll check out the second hand stores, but i don't think i'll mess with trying to bring an old one up to snuff. I actually understood the diode part, but "silicon diode bridge recitifier " brought up a fuzzy memory of studying bridge rectifiers about a year ago and thinking it was such an elegant idea. I couldn't identify one if it fell in my cereal, however; there are some disadvantages to being a generalist, LOL.
I knew that the gas from a battery could explode but didn't know how much so when i came down to the basement to turn it off after letting it charge overnight...yep, too long...i went outside and shut off power at the pole instead of risking removing the clamps. I'm not sure if even that causes a spark inside the charger, but i was farther from the blast if it did.
I deleted my previous post just to keep the site all EEO and all like that...
Any of the modern battery chargers have a feature where the charge rate is reduced as the battery comes closer to full charge - I think that's why the old one was boiling the acid in the battery - it was over charging. Some bubbling will happen though.
I've got an old one that was Pop's (actually my FIL) God rest his soul, that is a 6 amp. It was old when I got it 15 years ago and it still has the feature that reduces the charge rate. I use it for the lawn tractor and very occasionally a vehicle. That one you pictured is a 10 amp and should be all you ever need. Not that I know much about them.
I didn't take offense, but you never know about the mod. <G>My understanding is that the charger's producing a flammmable gas as it's burbling the battery, hence my interest in doing some research to get a reliable one. The one i used was an antique, so i'm glad to hear the safety features are not that novel. Maybe i'll go shopping the second-hand stores, in that case, since i don't need one very often. Thanks for the guidance.
Sam's club carries a nice one that can charge dry and wet cell batteries,restore batteries,jump start , and check alternators.I think it cost me 60 bucks and it has to be the lightest charger I have ever held.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
Do you remember the brand/model? We don't have a Sam's, but if i knew the brand, i'd do some calling locally to see if we have it in the Great White North.
Power on Board/VEC1095APOB
It has a 75 amp start and2 10 25 amp charger.
Another option is to buy a jump starter which is a portable battery with builtin jumper cables. It comes with ac charger and the battery jumper cables are built in.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
Thanks, Andy. I'll look into both options.
I was pretty sure you wouldn't take offence as my recollection was that you have a good sense of humor.
I had never heard of a solar battery charger for automotive type applications. I searched on Amazon, and sure enough. The link you posted wasn't solar, was it? Notice that the solar ones on Amazon are called "trickle charger" or "battery maintainer". The idea being that I guess you have to leave them connected for long periods of time when the vehicle is not in use. Doesn't work for those instances of "darn - battery is dead, let me see if I can get it charged up real quick so I can go accomplish the task at hand"....
Sounds like you may have a very small voltage leak. Old vehicles do that... You might want to start by just cleaning the battery good if it is particularly cruddy... Also, you might just need a new battery.
I was actually asking about two different things: the poop on regular battery chargers such as i linked to, and whether anyone had used a solar-powered trickle charger, hoping i could use one to keep my Vanagon topped up in wintertime. (No leaks...just the wintertime blues on a seldom-used vehicle.) I need a quicker-charger bec of dumb things like leaving the light on in the truck. I've gotten smarter about removing the battery out of the lawn tractor since having to buy a couple new ones, but i imagine it wouldn't hurt to give it a full charge a couple times before Spring, due to occur in about eight more months, by the look of things.
The newest thing in battery charging is battery desulfators. They are electrical circuits that can pulse the battery with jolts of current in the 3 MHz frequency range to break up the destructive lead sulphate that forms over time and leads to the demise of most batteries. Some newer charger have 'restorers' built in that are desulfators, or they can be purchased separately and wired into a battery charger or vehicle. Here's one that can be purchased:
http://www.survivalunlimited.com/batteries/powerpulse12.htm
Here's some that can be made by the DIYer:
http://home.comcast.net/~ddenhardt201263/desulfator/desulfparts.htmIf it ain't broke, don't fix it, just open it up to see how it works!
Thanks for offering that explanation; i had read the term "desulfators" when i was cyber-shopping, but i didn't know if they all did it and whether it was marketing hype or what. I'll look for that feature...but i suppose that means buying a new one, as i wouldn't know if a used charger had it or not.
As for building a desulfator circuit...you must have missed my post about blowing up my new multimeter. I joke that i can do 'large' electrons - i've wired a few houses to code - but the 'little' ones perplex me.
I have several different chargers and keep them on my motorcycles, electric hand truck, generator and tractor. Some don't work well on gel batteries.
WalMart has them and we have a Interstate Battery store here with all types.
If you are looking at automatic chargers, make sure that it will start charging when hooked up to a dead battery. Some automatic chargers will not start when hooked up to a dead battery and then it is a bit of a hassle to get the charger to start to start.
Thanks. That's the kind of stuff i need to know.
A friend has a couple of those solar chargers and likes them pretty well. One stays on the dump trailer and keeps the hoist battery topped off.
Thanks for the vote!
>> do those solar battery chargers for keeping a battery topped up really work?<<
I have no first hand experience with the solar chargers, however, I see a lot of them installed on infrequently used sailboats which are kept on moorings rather than in a slip with 120v power available.
The way I understand it, they only put out a few amps and serve to keep the battery topped off. The only load on the battery is the bilge pump which should be running briefly and infrequently.
One panel should keep your battery topped off unless you decide to remove it for the winter - that would be my choice.
Try googling "West Marine" and see their catalog.
Jim
West Marine's prices are a few more $$$ there than i saw at Northern Tool! I guess being stranded on actual water is more critical than on amber waves of grain, though.
I think i'll try one of the small units for the Vanagon - i like that i can plug it into the lighter - and just bring all the other batteries indoors.