Replies

1. 
   Gene_Leger_ | Dec 16, 1998 12:09am | #1

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   Phil. I recommend the Shinglevent II manufactured by Air Vent. Inc. It has an external baffle and a factory installed fiberglass filter to keep out insects and fine wind driven snow and rain. DO NOT :-] buy a ridge vent unless it has an external baffle. Use a double louvered continuous soffit vent installed next to the fascia board.This location minimises the possibility of weather penetration. The closer the soffit vent is to the ouutside wall the greater the possibility of rain and sow entering the attic space. Seal all the holes and openings in the basement ceiling and in the attic floor. This will reduce the amount of attic ventilation and give you real protection against ice dams and other worries. Gene L.

1. 
   Phil_ | Dec 17, 1998 07:12pm | #2

   *Thanks Gene.

1. 
   PhillyD | Dec 19, 1998 09:08pm | #3

   *Fred,I've actually thought about blocking the vents from the inside by stapling up building paper after the inspector gets out of the driveway.If the time ever comes for me to sell my home, I'll pull down the building paper.I'll send you a picture afterwards!Phil

1. 
   Billy-Bob | Dec 20, 1998 08:09am | #4

   *test

1. 
   Gene_Leger_ | Dec 20, 1998 09:01pm | #5

   *Phil. My suggestion to you is based on the vent police. But I totally concur with Fred..use fake vents. The least expensive way to do it is with gable end louvered vents.The code does not say they have to be combined with other vents. When the cop leave, and you've gotten your certificate of occupancy (CO) covet the gable-ens louvered vents from the interior. and of coures, remove it when you sell the house.Gene L.

2. 
   Gene_Leger_ | Dec 20, 1998 09:16pm | #6

   *Phil. i totally agree with Fred. The cheapest way to go is to use gable-end louvered vents. The codes do not require they be combined with other vents. After the vent police issue you your certificate of occupancy (CO) block the vents. When you sell the house remove the blocks. Gene L.

2. 
   Guest_ | Jan 01, 1999 07:58am | #7

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   The discussion of NOT ventilating attics is interesting. I am correct to understand that this only works if the attic is isolated from the living areas regarding both air and vapor?

   Rich

3. 
   rick_m | Jan 02, 1999 08:17am | #8

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   Phil I'm with the vent police on this one!
   Here in New England the biggest problem with roof systems is inadiquit venting.
   Gable end vents aren't usually big enough to remove all the heat from the attic. With a warm attic the snow on the roof melts and then freezes again once it reaches the overhang. I've seen ice 1' thick with icicles that reach the ground.
   In the summer that same attic will be like a sauna and make it difficult to cool the house. Vent because you want to, not because you have to.

1. 
   savoy_ | Jan 03, 1999 07:30am | #9

   *Guys, Of course you should vent the attic. Do do anything else defies logic. Ventalation will make the roof last considerably longer (reduce summer peak temperatures important down here in the south) and rid the attic of the moisture which will destroy the insulation and the structure over time. If you have a warm attic the problem is air infiltration/exfiltration and insufficient insulation job. Get the vent which allows the most ventilation I prefer one of the sheet metal jobs but their appearance is not as good as the new fangled ones covered with shingles. Good luck. Savoy29

1. 
   rick_m | Jan 03, 1999 08:27am | #10

   *Fred Once your heat has made it past your insulation in your ceiling joists its not going to warm anyones bones, unless you frequent your attic. rick

1. 
   PhillyD | Jan 04, 1999 05:55am | #11

   *Joe,Thanks for your input, but I'm an ANTI VENT believer. Fred, et al, have convinced me that vents have no place in my home when it's all air-sealed properly.My house is perfectly air-sealed and about to be pumped with cellulose in teh attic and in the walls.I only wanted info on ridge vents BECAUSE THE VENT POLICE MAKE ME DO IT!My position now is that I won't use ridge vents. Just gable ends. And those will get papered over. I don't need no sticking vents ! Respecting your opinion, but I am ventless.Phil

1. 
   Lee_ | Jan 04, 1999 08:39pm | #12

   *Adding fuel to the fire... Why is it that when the paint pops off the side of the house due to excessive moisture, the moisture problem is fixed, but when icicles form on the roof, the industry response is to put in ventilation????-Lee

4. 
   Guest_ | Jan 04, 1999 09:20pm | #13

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   We in the midwest got a nice blizzard over the weekend. My mother's old farm house has ridge vents, even though the attic is one of the old timey ones with real stairs up to it and gable vents. The roofer talked her into it some years ago. Well, now she gets to sweep up snow in the attic and she has to have plastic down to contain the snow. She plans to close up the vent next year. By the way, she didn't have ice dams before the vent was installed, and she still doesn't have soffit venting. She was just taken by the roofer, is all.

   Barry

5. 
   sysop_ | Jan 04, 1999 10:58pm | #14

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   courtesy of bill larson (by special request)

1. 
   Patrick_M. | Jan 05, 1999 08:01am | #15

   *Hey BarryIf she were my mother I'd stroll up there and close the sucker over with some tarpaper and save the old girl the aggravation until she can get it fixed right. 'Course if she were my mother I'd be doin' the fixin' to, not to mention I'd of been the guy doin' her roof in the first place. . . for materials and a meal or two just like ol' times.Those were the days my friend. . . lalala splat!!

6. 
   Guest_ | Jan 06, 1999 10:45pm | #16

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   Joe Fusco, et al. Over the last half-dozen years we have had some beautiful ice dam winters. Indeed, one of those winters was the worst ice dam year in 20 years. What is amazing is what we don't see or fail to notice.

   Ice dams formed above, below under and completely around the electricaly heated heat tapes.Ice dams formed on unventilated attics, ventilated attics,even on those roofs with ridge/soffit vents, on those vented according to code. One found oneself in a state of disbelief upon seeing metal roofs sporting ice dams. Certainly not all of these roofs were improperly vented.

   How then,does one avoid concluding that attic ventilation is of limited use, at a minimum, and umworkable at worse?

   I have personally seen millions of dollars of ice dam damage caused not by a lack of attic ventilation but by leaky ceilings below the attic.The problem was exacerbated--worsened-by lack of attic ventilation.In one 52 house subdivision all had water stained ceilings and crumbling gypsum board. All houses were equipped with ridge/soffit vent.With one exception all ridge vents were correctly installed. The problem was caused by pegboard soffit vents.Their net free venting area (NFVA) was 0.75 sq. in before painting.The painting and the air turbulence around the vent holes reduced the NFVA to zero,,causing ridge vent reversal.

   Now mostof all the experts tell us the best passive attic ventilation system is ridge/soffit vents. But they don't tell us why. Neither do they tell us that not all combinations of ridge/soffit vents work. We are never told the the location of the soffit vents in the soffit is crucial. We are never told that years and years of testing--the most recent testing in 1995 at the University oof Illinois--prove that ridge vents without an external--internal baffles don't work-baffle will not exhaust air out of the attic, but brings air and snow and rai in.

   I will agree with you Joe, and so will Joe Lstiburek,that an attic with a leaky floor an no ventilation is a court case in the making.No building scientist I know of argues that it's OK to have a leaky ceiling below the attic and to go ahead an block off the attic vents.

   Does this mean I disagree with Fred, that I am arguing for attic ventilation? No. What Fred did not tell uis was why Betsie blocked the attic vents in their houses.She and her husband Joe Lstiburek spent a long time in personally sealing the attic space, thus making attic ventilation unnecessary.For those of you not familiar with the name Lstiburek, he is a building scientist and author of, among other books, _The__Moisture_Control_Handbook._

   The answer to leaky ceilings below the attic is to block the openings. but if that is not possible then some whay must be found to get rid of the warm moist air. Gene L.

7. 
   Dennis_Loeffler | Feb 17, 1999 08:42am | #17

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   I am reading these threads with the greatest on interest and wondering more and more why none of the common literature mentions radiation. It seems to me that almost all solutions have been tried and either worked or failed without much reason. I think that we are ignoring radiation. I build with and swear at polyiso. If taped with foil tape and sealed with foam on the larger gaps, it has to be as good a vapor barrier as any. If you recall your chemistry or physics, you will probably come to the conclusion that a vapor barrier does not stop water, but just affects the rate of diffusion. All those nail holes have to leak somewhat. There is a material out now that is a sort of quilted foil and I have used it on my Wasau home where I could not get the polyiso in - in particular over the common wall between the bath and kitchen. Last year there was an area directly above this wall with melted snow. This year with more snow - the snow did not melt. This with only the addition of this quilted foil. Now, when it comes to attaching the sheetrock, well, that is a pain requiring 2 1/2' screws and rolling and floating a thin layer of mud to get an even surface. Looking forward to your comments.

8. 
   Guest_ | Feb 17, 1999 10:17am | #18

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   Um, to the original Q, I've heard "Air Vent" recommended time and again.

1. 
   Guest_ | Feb 21, 1999 04:49am | #19

   *andrew d.Air Vent is the name of the company Air Vent,Inc., manufacturer of attic ventilation devices notably Shingle Vent. Shingle Vent is an externally baffled ridge vent with a factory installed fiberglass filter. When someone asks me which ridge vent to use this is the I recommend. GeneL.

1. 
   Guest_ | Feb 21, 1999 07:31am | #20

   *Yeah, what he said.This is the one you can stick shingles to?

9. 
   chuck_overton | Feb 21, 1999 09:03am | #21

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   Reciently I helped my daughter purchase a "Good Cents" home. 1200 ft, with electric wall heaters, and is very inexpensive to heat. Problem: too much mositure ( I think the interior walls and ceilings were wraped in plastic prior to sheetrock ) and air polution in the home. The home is in Portland Oregon, lots of rain. What is the best way to vent or get a good rate of air exchange in this type of construction

10. 
    Guest_ | Feb 21, 1999 08:44pm | #22

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    Understand, I do not know the answer. I am here to bet that Fred will be along to explain that your problem is in the basement/crawlspace and the attic floor.

    First, you need to stop the moisture infiltration below the house.

    Second, you need to stop the air flow from the living area into the attic.

    Am I right, Fred?

    In test mode.

    Rich Beckman

1. 
   Guest_ | Feb 22, 1999 10:39pm | #23

   *My earlier analogy was that ventilating an attic was akin to ensuring a good basement drain to keep the leaking water heater from flooding the basement. Treating a symptom, not the disease. I see from the gist of this discussion that the real solution is to enlarge the basement drain.In an upstairs bedroom, if I open the upper sash of a window and hold a cigarette or candle up to it, the smoke goes out the window. If I close the window, this stops. I would think that this would also apply to my attic. If the attic vents were closed, would there be any draw into the attic from below?

11. 
    Philip_W | Feb 23, 1999 05:57am | #24

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    The Vent Police here are making me vent. Because I have to vent, which brand of ridge vent is the best in regard to :

    * functionality/performance

    * smooth appearance

    * keeping out bugs

    TIA

    Phil