Supposing that a fellow was a good contractor with over 35 years in the trades.
Suppose that all those years of heavy physical work and stress from contracting had him about worn out – old before his time.
Suppose that he needed to get into work that allowed him to make good use of his experience and knowledge in serving people but something less stressful than contracting
#1 Q – is the home inspection business stressful?
#2 Q – what is the best way to get into it?
Specifically, in Maine, I know some training would be needed to flesh out the holes in my knowledge, but also what licensing might be necessary…
Thanks
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I used to have a HI license. Didn't do it much. They have softare to make it (or at least the report writing aspect) much easier. Here, they make it hard to keep up your license unless you are full time. Don't know about Maine licensing requirements. Alos, here anyway, it's not a requirement, but everybody has errors and omissions insurance and and another. I didn't find it particurally stressful although you will often be in a bit of an adversarial situation since there will be a seller who doesn't want you to find any problems, however the buyer, who is paying you, wants you to find the probs...
Who is "they" with the software - I'll head off to Google, but if anyone has specific experience with what is good and what bad...???Thanks for the ccomments. I don't have any problems with dis-association and knowing my boundaries with regards to which cclient I am serving. Have actually done quite a bit of inspections and consults that have worked out well.One thing I would have to back off from is the eternal question they all seem to have - "How much would it cost to fix that?"
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you can always ask BOB, oh sorry
Truth, I am hoping Bob chimes in
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If it were me, I'd forge a relationship with several realtors, or even a realty company in your area. Become the go-to-guy for them and have them recommend using your services, much like they might have a firm related mortgage lender.
Honestly, with your encyclopedic knowledge, I think you'd be a real asset to a realtor or group of them. After all, their job is to protect and watch out for their clients' best interests; having someone like you affiliated with them only makes their job easier.
I'd think you'd want to set yourself up with repeatable business rather than waiting for people to pick you out of the phone book.
The last thing I'd mention is that you'd need to be aware of changes in the housing market and how that's going to affect your business. For instance, 2 years ago when the market was so hot here in VA, you almost always had to waive an inspection in order to get the winning bid. If you wanted to press the issue the seller could very easily find someone else who didn't. Now with the market tightening up, buyers have more leeway to insist on inspections. All of which is to say that no matter how good you are, the market's going to be blowing hot and cold at times.
Hope that's helpful.
Thanks for those comments and compliments.
I have already thought through a marketing plan inmymind, if I decide to go that way. Always been good a selling myself and I have some contacts in banks and real estate offices.I am currious how the market thing might effect this branch of our industry. Could go either way, unless things totally dry up.
Basically I would think that it means more careful buyers in a slowdown who would to shop critically with the help of a sharp inspector.
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Thought Question.
Scenario:
1) You rely on recommendations from real estate agents (who we know only want what is best for their clients).
2) You do a thorough inspection, finding things that cause the Buyer to (in your mind) legitimately demand repairs, which the Seller refuses and therefore, the Buyer walks.
Do you think that the real estate agents will continue to refer to you?
OK. I have now read many more posts and see that BobTim basically answered this. Really feel sorry for those that ask their agent for recommendations!
Edited 11/10/2007 11:48 pm ET by ringtail
A friend of mine is an RE agent.She say that the agents want the HI to find any real problem, at least in this area.They don't want to caught in the middle if the HO finds a problem after they move in..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
She say that the agents want the HI to find any real problem, at least in this area.
They don't want to caught in the middle if the HO finds a problem after they move in.
I'd say that's universal. I backed out of a deal recently based on the HI report. Bought the house across the street for a $20K more than I would have paid for the one I backed out of. Agent made $600 for one more trip to the street. I was out a couple of hundred for the inspection, but he turned up some well hidden, but unrepaired fire damage. I couldn't fit into the attic, but he squirmed in there somehow.http://grantlogan.net/
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. - J. Handey
That brings up another point - price. You mention a couple hundred. I was thinking closer to three bills. The national average for a general inspection seems to be $318. Results of a poll showed higher volumn of answers at 300, 350 and 400 than 200 or 250.curious if anybody here has opinions what they would onsider a fair value.
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Isn't the usual answer $999?
Depends on your neigborhood. I met guys charging up around $700 on the northside of chicago and some around $250 out in the burbs.
It also depends how much work you put into it. Some guys give a "book" to the customer outlining everything. Others just 2-3 report.
It also depends on how much time you spend in the home. Standard house around 2k sq ft should take 3-5 hours, some guys spend a whole day.
It also depends on your reputation. The better you are talked about, the more you can charge. Most people have no idea how much an inspection should cost and just pay whatever is the norm in their area.
"It also depends on your reputation. The better you are talked about, the more you can charge. Most people have no idea how much an inspection should cost and just pay whatever is the norm in their area."True dat!I have often read reports by others. Typically when a person is considering or has made some sort of offer on a house and has a report in hand, they want estimates on how much to correct the deficiencies.Or after buying and they are ready to go forward aand hire me, they have me read the report so I won't "miss anything"They all show pretty strong faith in the abilities of the inspector, but nine times out of ten, I will have seen things in just a cursory walk around that are serious but never gor mentioned in the report. Things the inspoector obviously missed even though right under their nose.I have also often heard anger and frustration expressed towards inspectors when I point out the newly 'discovered' deficiencies. One was just this summer. Lady had a leak in roof. I spotted what the pronblem was on a two storey house from on the ground out at the curb. But I'll take credit there thatit was a lifetime of doing this hat my instincts took my eye right to the problem. That's the kind of thing you will never get in a two eek class.
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In the inspections I have done heretofore, that was not the way the sccenario unfolded.
I pointed out what might need improvement or re[pair and the buyer used that as a bargaining chip to get a better price on the house. The house still sold and the buyers were more happy with it, being able to go into the losing with more confidence they knew what value they were getting
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>>Do you think that the real estate agents will continue to refer to you?In my area, most do, a few won't. But who needs them?
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
A couple of years ago, I went the same route you're thinking. My advice - don't do it.
That being said, if you think you really want to, I can guarantee you would be great at it. Your knowledge base far exceeds any inspector I met in the 6 months of going thru the motions.
First, check with your state regarding your licensing requirements, i.e. how much money, do you need classes, etc.
Second, check with a local insurance company for Errors and Omissions insurance. It ain't cheap for a beginner. You may have to go to a company that specifically deals with Home Inspectors.
Third, check with local realtors to see if the market is full of good inspectors or if there's a rut. With the housing market in the last few years, at least in Chicago, there were way too many inspectors entering the market and now there's not enough business to go around.
Fourth, look into a tool list that you'll need. There's some things you'll need that even a seasoned contractor/carpenter wouldn't have. It will add up to a grand or so to get everything you need if you're starting from scratch.
Fifth, check out ASHI.org to get some resources on the business.
Software and leads are the last thing you need to worry about. Don't spend any money until you know you want to do this. Get hooked up with a local inspector to see if you can do some ride-alongs.
Good luck,
Joe
Edited 11/10/2007 11:42 am by JMadson
NoW THAT is a solid list, mostly things I had not thought of.
Figured I would need some high tech inspection tools.The other thing for me is that I would be driving a lot, so my capital expense would gete high for travel at first.
Unless I borrowed the wife's car...
Honey!;)
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I did almost 2000 inspections before I quit.
ASHI is a very good orgization to belong to. Test out with them and you have a valuable credential.
The realtors sort of own you, irregardless of what they say. Be the deal killer on several houses and see if that realtor ever uses your services again. Buyers rarely give much thought to what inspector to choose and just go with whoever the realtor recommends.
Call out a bunch of stained carpets and other silly drivel in your reports and you will stay busy with a few realtors.
There could be a bunch of HIs soon. Less building going on. Lots of unemployed tradespeople need some sort of job..... Some places houses just ain't selling.
First year or 2 could be real tough.
I don't miss it one bit.
Also - curious about why you say don't...
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It's just a gut feel for me. It didn't fit my personality. I don't want to pizz off any inspectors if they're lurking around here, but I never got a good feeling from any of the inspectors I met.
I went through a class at my local Jr College (classes are required in Illinois to be licensed, which is also required). Met up with a group from ASHI. I tried to do some ride-alongs with a few guys but couldn't get much help. In a nutshell, Home Inspectors are guys that can't get along with other people so they have to work alone and they are naturally very anal, picky and arrogant.
I was also looking to do it part-time and with the $$ required upfront and the insurance, I couldn't really justify it. The market was also becoming very saturated in my neck of the woods.
That's just my opinion though. I would bet you'd be good at it and the market around you might be completely different. Good luck in your quest.
my 2 cents.
I went through a class at my local Jr College (classes are required in Illinois to be licensed, which is also required). Met up with a group from ASHI. I tried to do some ride-alongs with a few guys but couldn't get much help. In a nutshell, Home Inspectors are guys that can't get along with other people so they have to work alone and they are naturally very anal, picky and arrogant.
The inspector meetings I went to drove me nuts. Most Inspectors are like you described.
Don't miss it one bit
I know there's some good ones out, but as a whole, wasn't too comfortable with the group.
"can't get along with other people so they have to work alone and they are naturally very anal, picky and arrogant."Sounds like you'ver got me pegged. I'll make a million at it!;)The criticisms of what sort of people inspectors tend to be is actually one of the reasons I think I would be good at it, knowing the failings of the "competition"
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>>In a nutshell, Home Inspectors are guys that can't get along with other people so they have to work alone and they are naturally very anal, picky and arrogant.LOL - pretty accurate for many!
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
There are no training or licensing requirements in Maine. Hang out a shingle and have at it. Just like contracting.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Have you considered working as an inspector for a builder? As in, a Quality Assurance guy. DH did this after contracting for 30+ years. He is the sheetrock-to-finish inspector for a large company, although his job is more involved than that. He also manages all the SWPPY crews, does all the logistics for relocating the superintendent's work trailers, homeowner walk-thru's and such...It's a good job for him, keeps him really busy, which he loves. Travels between many jobsites, inspecting, assisting the supers (showing them where the problems are and advising what they need to do), also approving the finished product. You would be great at it too
He's just happy that he doesn't need to strap on the toolbelt anymore, nor drop bills and collect money. He's done with that.
I knew you would.
I hope you're all taking notes, because there's going to be a short quiz next period... Tom Lehrer
I have wondered about some sort of consulting role.This is a more or less rural area though with no BIG builders, but there is plenty of rom for improvement in how a lot of things are done.
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Skip home inspection, at the mercy of real estate agents and can be quite contentious. Become an Energy Star Certifier instead, rapidly growing field since these guys generally also do Green Certification inspections and every time the price of fuel goes up your phone starts ringing.
We have a 110 pound girl who is a top rated energy star certifier in our area. She's feisty but I don't think theres all that much heavy lifting involved.
M
------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
It can have real satisfactions.
The keys to success are (i) good knowledge (which you have) (ii) ability to integrate info from diverse sources -- "holistic" trouble shooting <G>, (iii) expectation management (iv) self-marketing skills.
Tough time in the business, though.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
could you say more about what it is you mean about wholistic trouble shooting? I think I know but an example could clarify this.Seems the literature on websites so far indicates 2-3 hours on site. That sound reasonable?The ones I have done took me more like 5-6 hours. I'm a fairly thorough guy, but I put some of the time off to inexperience in orderly delving
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Wholistic: e.g., mildew/mold on the underside of the roof sheathing can indicate (a) wet crawlspace/basement, (b) bath fan venting into attic, (c) no fan in bath below area with mildew, etcThe economics dictate 2-3 hours per inspection - there are a few who can command a premium, but that is rare and not associated with skill, necessarily. Otherwise, the market average fee only pays for a certain amount of time.Efficiency comes with experience and practice - when I started, 4-5 hours was typical, 2-3 is the norm now.Beginners usually use a checklist and specifically look at each component and mentally run through the list, item after item - after 400-500, you become more efficient and spend less time with the mental checklist and more time looking and letting significant info "speak" to you.I like having my client on site and following along with me - I can check stuff and talk simultaneously. E.g., I can do my water heater rap while checking it - after saying essentially the same thing several hundred times, it just kind of comes, which also adds to efficiency.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
"I like having my client on site and following along with me"When you say client, I presume you mean the potential buyer?I can see the opportunity to do selling, up-selling and education with the client there, but I tend to be single focused and get distracted or forget something if I am trying to do the thing and have a conversation at the same time, so I am not sure how well this would work for me.do you end up with much after the report verbal questioning?
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"I like having my client on site and following along with me - I can check stuff and talk simultaneously. E.g., I can do my water heater rap while checking it - after saying essentially the same thing several hundred times, it just kind of comes, which also adds to efficiency."I am surprised at the signicant number of HO's are completely clueless.For example don't know if the furnace has a pilot or not and if so how to light it..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Or don't know the diff between a boiler and a furnace - and some who don't know diff in space heat vs central.
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A little more info -
Basically you have a detailed check list that you go through on a home.
There are some tools that one needs, probably some of which you already have, like a CO detector, moisture meter, (electrical) multi meter, GFCI outlet tester, a ladder - possibly one of these cool folding ones, binoculars for checking roofs, thermometers for checking HVAC systems, a digital camera, a few screwdrivers, flashlight, etc, etc.
I disagree with the guy above - every HI I have had come out to inspect the new homes I build have a laptop with some software. True, you can do the job without it, but most customers expect professional looking type written reports with (digital) pictures of the identified deficiencies, and the report is often delivered in E-mail form. Sure this can be done on an ad-hoc basis on your home computer, but you will end up spending 6 or 7 hrs to do the actual inspection and then generate the report as opposed to simply going through the electronic check list on site and adding comments right then and there.
It's really somewhat demanding because you need to be knowledgeable in all aspects of homes - structural, HVAC, elect, plumbing, roofing, siding, etc, etc. Also you have to not only have a knowledge of current codes, but a historical knowledge since, for example you might find a house built in 1978 with no GFCIs. If GFCI's weren't required in 1978, then really the seller can't be required to install them...
Here HIs are strictly forbidden from making comments about cosmetic stuff, and they can't make recommendations as how a problem should be resolved - just that it exists - but it sounds like it isn't like that in Maine since there are not licensing requirements. As alluded to above, there is a certain amount of collusion between the HIs and the Real Estate agents. They want you to find some little things but they don't want you talking a serious home buyer out of purchasing a particular house. The best way would be to be entirely independent of real estate agents, but unfortunately this is the source for 90% of the referrals.
A lot of time these HIs tend to be gloom and doom types who, if they can't find anything significant wrong with a house will flag largely insignificant things like "there is a 1/32" x 12" crack in the garage slab" or an electrical outlet is slightly loose in the (plastic) box. That way the customer feels like he got his money's worth. The problem is most home buyers don't know how to interpret these things. OTOH, I did recently have a HI explain to a buyer and RE why the garage slab wasn't as flat as a piece of glass... Mostly though, when I have one of my homes inspected by a HI I know it will mean at least an hour just writing up a rebuttal and explaining why a 1/32" x 12" crack isn't sigficant. If I'm there when the HI is, if he will talk to me, I can often have 80% of his findings rectified before he even leaves...
If you do a Google search for "home inspection report" you will find a number of them and can peruse those to get an idea of what they contain.
"It's really somewhat demanding because you need to be knowledgeable in all aspects of homes - structural, HVAC, elect, plumbing, roofing, siding, etc, etc. Also you have to not only have a knowledge of current codes, but a historical knowledge since, for example you might find a house built in 1978 with no GFCIs. If GFCI's weren't required in 1978, then really the seller can't be required to install them..."There are several problesm with that. GFCI requirements have been changed many, many times over the years. Some place I have a list. For example kitchens did not reuqire them until the 80's, IIRC, and then only with in 6 ft of the sink. IIRC it was the 96 NEC that required them on all kitchen countertop receptacles.And then you need to know the all of the exceptions.And even if you knew exactly when the house was built it it has significant kitchen remodeling that included wiring it should have been brought up to the requirements at that time. But when was that remodeling.And if you are in a area that individual city adopt there own codes then you need to know each city's. And when they adopted a code and which code and what local admentments. One local cities has adopted the 2003 IRC, but local admentments read like the 80's version of the NEC for GFCI requirements.The reports that I have seen don't mention codes at all.In general they list 3 different conditions.Problem areas - rot, mold, bad roof, etc.Maintance isses - some that need current maintance such as painting. Others that point out areas such as gutters with overhanging trees and furnace filter that need periodic maintance. Safety issues.Things like GFCI's are mentioned in the safety area as a recommendation that they be installed in the appropriate places.They it is up to the buyer/seller to decide what, if anything, is going to be done..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
" don't mention codes at all."That is my take. Too easy to get bogged down. I would report what IS and list recommeneded improvemnets or maint on one list and definite deficiencies on another, I think
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if you go in business by yourself doing home inspection, you are going to need , paperwork, documentation, refrencers, liability insurance. If you do a $200 inspection that take three hours, you will have five hour worth of paperwork.
I don't think I'll be doing any 200 inspections. I will probably have to learn to back up the PC more often tho to protect documentation.
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computer, cameras , lawyer on retainer to help with the forms and other things such as Irate HO both buyers and sellersIsn't anyone gonna say what we all best be thinking?- Hank Hill
In the class I took, it was pumped down our throats to not mention code, ever. Two reasons:
First, everytown has different codes and a HI could never be an experts in all of them.
Second, and I'm not starting a discussion on this please, code is the minimal requirement for a home to be "safe". Every single one of us has a procedure that we do that's over and above the code based on our opinions and experience. A Home Inspector should use this mentallity when inspecting. It's a question of what should practically be done, not what legally should be done. You may also call out things that code doesn't even address.
I have heard of sales being squashed by an inspectors statement that *X* was not up to code, in spite of the fact that the house was a hundred years old and there was probably almost nothing in it that would be up to the standards of modern ccodes, but had been time tested. It was a case of the blind and ignorant leading the blind and ignorant and probably saved some contractor a lot of headaches.
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There is no true "standard" as to what is ok or not, everything diffrent shades of gray. This is unlike the building codes which are usually pretty black or white. Balluster spacing was a wonderfully confusing one. 4'' or 6'' or 9'' and does it matter if your client has children?
Everybody talks about GFCIs in kitchens and bathes (I always used a standard of 6'from a sink , irregardless of the homes age. I wonder how the HI world is going to incorporate AFCIs? They are required in all bedrooms in current NEC, but will be required through-out the entire home in the 2009 NEC.
Was tough sometimes to make a sort of subjective call.
I could do a house usually in 2-3 hours unless the buyer tagged along and talked alot (cause I can talk a lot too.) My buyers liked me because I talked to them and I made sure they understood me. I did get some repeat business.
The money was fairly good, and the hours were fine. Dealing with the realtors (and to a lessor extant appraisers and banks) sucked.
Don't miss it a bit
I did the Illinois Home Inspectors licensed inspections for three years in southern Illinois where the "small town" realtors often have their "pets" to do the inspections.
Kill a few deals or call out detailed problems and your business card disappears off the realtors desk!
My clients deeply appreciated my detail and experience in the field of building/construction, but often the seller or realtor was of a vile attitude about what ever I had called out.
Physically, HI can be tiring and lead to back strain and muscle pain from contorting yourself through some strange contorsions. My average on site was 2-3 hours with a report write-up that consummed about the equal amount of time. My average fee was $250 for up to five hours, after that $50 per added hour.
On Rare occasion I would do 2 in a day.....makes for a very full day.
I thoroughly enjoyed investigating houses, but I let my license expire for several reasons....I did not like the patronage system set up by the local realtors......I did not enjoy the need to "justify" the factual on-site observations of issues.....I did not like paying $5k for O&E insurance.....I did not like the licencing fees and continuing education requirement at $100 per credit hour plus travel, room & board....and I was hired to do inspections at the commercial level for an architectural office.
Finally some respect and an opportunityshare some knowledge to solve a problem, rather than being the problem.
Piffin's locale may be different than where I live...maybe it will be okay for you.
If it sours.....bale ASAP. You might check with some of the local architects so see if they need an experienced multi-talented on-site observer! Or become specialized like rjw.
...........Mike
>>I have heard of sales being squashed by an inspectors statement that *X* was not up to code, in spite of the fact that the house was a hundred years oldIn my experience, most common when a buyer has a "friend" in the trades who does the inspection but doesn't know inspections SoPs.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
The HI who inspected my last home when something was in question say the main panel, he suggested that I have a electrician look at it. Didn't say it violated code. Just said needs attention and should be looked atIsn't anyone gonna say what we all best be thinking?- Hank Hill
if you had a printed check list that covered each topic and each item possible, you could proberly do it quick, couple hours at least on small house on slab, but then you have couple hours report writing.
Just went on an inspection on a house I purchased.
Cost 250
Time 4 hours
I had a printed report at the end on the inspection. Inspector had laptop and printer on site. He was completely done and paid when he left.
He inspected all major components of house except overhead crawl space as there was no access. He pointed out things that were not up to code.
Some wiring problems, nothing major.
No show stoppers for me.
Looked like easy money if you have done much construction and remodeling
work. You wouldn't have any problems.
If I'd known it was harmless I'd have killed it myself.
>>Looked like easy money if...Nope, not even close.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
I don't know the logistics you may be planning if you end up pursueing this...but, I forgot to mention that DH also has a slick compact cordless printer that he uses from time to time, although, not much because he uploads most of his stuff to the companies software (specifically designed by his company's owner). But it is a very slick little printer.
Isn't that interesting?I knew you would.I hope you're all taking notes, because there's going to be a short quiz next period... Tom Lehrer
grass is greener part of human nature
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
BTW, several folks have mentioned taking a printer on-site.Many inspectors convert the report to pdf and burn it to disk and give the disk to the buyer.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
I have a printer in my truck for reports
How does it hold up to everyday bounces and stuff?
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
How does it hold up to everyday bounces and stuff?its ok, but the humity kills the paper
Do you plug that into the cig lighter or does it run on batteries or what?
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That sounds like a winner, butI doubt that I would do it all on site.There is a guy not far from here who has a website where he uploads his reports so customers can download from there within 24 hours of his inspection..I find doing something like this onsite would be too distracting for me to do a good job on and in the back of my mind would be the time crunch of needing to get home on the ferry before the last one leaves.I think I have mentioned before that I do pretty good reports and writing. One propposal of mine was done report style with a few photos and concept drawings.This was for a customer who is probably one of the wealthiest people here. He holds a seat on the NYSE, donates to good causes more annually than I will probably earn in my whole life, and as an investor, he reads financial reports and proposals daily. I would not be surprised if he has read as many reports in his life as I have posts in this forum.So I was pretty pleased when I heard compliments come back down from him that mine was an excellent presentation. It was good enough, along with the impression he got from my personal interview, to get me that job.But I spent an entire day preparing it. Maybe eleven hours.
I am afraid that a report run off quickly on site would be little better than some of my poorer posts here at Breaktime with mis-spellings, typos, sloppy grammar and all that. A professional HI report would need to be somewhere in between the two. The customer wopuld get what they pay for.But thanks for the CD idea. It has value that I can incorporate.
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That is an almost too tactfull way of saying it while sidestepping potentiaal liabilities.I ended up rebuilding a house almost totally. The inspection report had reaad, "The framing appears to be substandard. It would be best to have an experiened contractor determine the best way to remedy the problems"It also saved the guy ink and time. It would take me a half hour to detail all that was wrong with the way that place was built
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The general rule is that a home inspection isn't a code inspection.Good inspectors use code to inform their opinions and support their observations.And, as an inspector, I don't (and can't) make the seller do anything.My job is to educate my buyer so he/she can make informed decisions.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
The GFCI thing was just an example.
The point is that what is good condition for a 1940 house is different that what is god condition for a house for a 1990 house.
"The point is that what is good condition for a 1940 house is different that what is god condition for a house for a 1990 house."Not really. Neither should have a bad roof or show signs of rot or mold.And neither should large cracks in the walls or tightly bound doors.Now it does not matter if the 1940's house has roof rafters sized to the them code or not. And it is well posible that there was no code at all in 1940. What is concern is if the roof is realatively flat and does not show signs of structual weakness. Exactly the same "test" that the 1990's roof should pass.And you can point out the number of recpetacles and how if there are enough for modern lifestyles without being concerned about what the codes called for receptacel spacing.Well the are "maintacne codes" (usually covering things like pealing paint and broken window) the building codes cover the requirements when something is built. But it is only incidential to the current condition of the home.Those are all reasons that most HI don't mention codes at all..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
And it is well posible that there was no code at all in 1940.that why the inspection should be base on the code when the house was rebuild unless it was brought up to code i a later date.that one of the problem we are having now do to katrina. new code say 13 feet so you cant get a building permit till you raise the house to elevation 13.
Have to say I haven't been impressed with the integrity of the handful of inspectors that I've seen.
They seem to be in bed with those that pay them, as others have mentioned, usually a realtor.
What brought on this desire? Did ya accidentally fire a nail into your frontal lobe?
If you do pursue it, seriously, best of luck in your new career.
I have fibromyalgia now which appears triggered by stress and by the back poain that goes wiuth all those years of heavy work.so I am looking for lighter duty and less stress.
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Do it! Your experience that I have seen in my brief time on this forum shows that you have the knowledge, experience and passion for the trades. I guarantee that there are a ton of home inspectors that have less qualifications than you, and you would blow out of the water with a good rep. Word of mouth will carry you into a great business.
I would look into a good quality certification group such as NASHI? or ASHI. There are a few out there. One, all you need to do is take an online test. The other, you need to take a class and pass a test. This one seemed to be more reputable, of course. I looked into this, and I do not have nearly the experience that you obviously do.
I believe that with travel, training, tools, you can get started up for under $10,000. Not bad if you think about the potential coin involved. Errors and Omissions insurance tends to be expensive, so get some good quotes before diving in. Do not get hooked up with a franchise, as you will not make nearly the money as if you started your own business. I may have some links for certification info. I will look for them and forward if I can.
A buddy of mine hung up his contracting business and went to work as a home inspector. He appears to be doing much better financially (he works for someone else), but he was a great carpenter and a fair businessman at best.
I always call him to do inspections when I need one and he's the only one I've ever seen work. But he gets dirty. Real damn dirty. He crawls in crawls spaces and crawls in attics thru those tiny traps they put in closet ceilings. Looks like in some cases it can be very unpleasant and uncomfortable work to do right.http://grantlogan.net/
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. - J. Handey
That kind of thing I don't mind. I could see having some of those pretty Tyvek overalla;)
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Ouch.
Sorry to hear that.
I'm out of construction myself and we also just sold our consulting company, we closed on that two months ago. I'd been running full steam ahead for the past six years and felt like I hadn't seen a water tank to reload in four year.
Tired.
Worn out.
Beaten down.
I'm still worn out.
Best to your recovery.
Mongo
ThanksWhen we met, you seemed tired, not that we talked a lot, but that weight was on your shoulders then.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>>They seem to be in bed with those that pay them, as others have mentioned, usually a realtor.Actually, rarely does the real estate agent pay, and any such remuneration has to be disclosed.*Assuming there are inspectors who are "in bed" with agents, they will rarely last long - they get sued for the stuff they fail to disclose.-----
I've only had agents pay a couple of times: in each case an inspection had been done on one house, but the agent had screwed something up and had paid for the inspection on the second "replacement" house found by the buyer.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
Correct, the agents don't pay, but they refer buyers and sellers to inspectors.
If a sale is killed due to a nit-picky negative report that scares off a buyer, or gives the buyer the idea that they can submit a lowball offer due to the multiople negatives int he report, then a realtor may not be inclined to give that inspector any more referrals.
According to a friend that owns a realty agency, she says it happens often and the result is that inspection reports are just thorough enough to pass muster.
Mongo
A minor point, FWIW:
My sister worked with an inspector recently who used a computer tablet to input notes with a digitizing pen during the inspection. He said it was the only way he could make it worth his while as he generated very comprehensive reports. Whereas it used to take him about 3 hours post-inspection to do the write up/print out, now he said he's done in about an hour.
I have a pretty good short term memory if I write it up immeditaely, and use a digital camera a lot which makes a pretty good memnomic, but I was thinking about a digital voice recorder and transription software. Since I would need to ride the ferry and travel, I could do a lot of the work while in ferry line with the laptop
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DH uses a voice recorder all the time, has actually 5 or 6, I think. For him, it's quicker than taking notes as he goes through the buildings: "Project Lessara, building 19, unit 4...etc" Then he can type his reports later. He also uses his digital camera alot because part of his job is to document every unit.
Isn't that interesting?I knew you would.I hope you're all taking notes, because there's going to be a short quiz next period... Tom Lehrer
Thanks. Ask him what kind he likes best for me
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All six of them are the Olympus Digital Voice Recorder VN-4100. Another of his favorite "tools" is a tiny high-powered flashlight that he got at a hunting/fishing store.
Isn't that interesting?I knew you would.I hope you're all taking notes, because there's going to be a short quiz next period... Tom Lehrer
i'm surprised at how long most guys are talking about a inspection taking. i have only ever had one house inspected [i still come from the school of buyer beware,and keep your eyes open] but the one i did have done the guy was in and out in bout a hour,300.00. doesn't climb on roofs,gives no opinon on hot tubs etc.really a waste of money for me.i think that is really pretty standard around here.he came recommended from the realtor,that says it all....
i would think this could be a job with a lot of stress,guy hires you to look at house,buys it and 2 weeks later the air cond. craps out. yea no way for you to know but you can bet he will be calling you telling you about it.
i'd go for being a r.e. appraisor before a h.i,do the job and it's down the road.and pays about the same around here. larry if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
guy who did my last appraissal does both
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Conflicted.
sucks
glad I ain't HIing no'more
the guy was in and out in bout a hour,300.00. doesn't climb on roofs,gives no opinon on hot tubs etc
You got ripped off, IMO he stole 300 bucks from you. Minimum is two to three hours.
They have to get on the roof, if possible. They have to get in the attic. They have to open the furnace. Thay have to open the electrical panel. They have to check each bathroom. etc. There's no way to do all that in an hour.
I like your way better. Between the camera and voice recorder you'll be covered and I suppose you can cut and paste the transcribed notes onto the inspection software. Nice.
>>I was thinking about a digital voice recorder and transription software. Tried it myself, but wasn't satisfied.I use my own reporting procedure developed in WordPerfect's macro language. 95%+/- of what I report has standardized language I've developed over the years.My digital camera is my "notebook/scratchpad" - see something I want to include - I take a photo - assembling the report uses "checklists" and final double check using the photos.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
"My digital camera is my "notebook/scratchpad" "Same here.When I measure up a house to create a CAD model for design work, I invariably miss something, but I have 30-40 pictures to look at to remind myself.
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Here's a real life situation about home inspecting.I'm working with a Buyer who wants to buy a 1969 Ranch, 3166 sq feet. There is no basement.We walked into the house and saw it for the first time on Sunday and we smelled mildew. We opened the hatch to the crawl space and can see the entire crawl space is very wet.The 4" cast iron drain pipes are old and have been leaking for a long time. They are rusty and the pipe connections have come apart and there are a lot of leaks. There are three full bathrooms and a wet bar in another room. There's a lot of plumbing.The Buyer loves the house and we made a written offer yesterday. But he's very worried about mold in the crawl space.If they accept his offer he will pay a home inspector $250 or $300 and will be depending upon the inspector to let him know if there is any mold in the crawl space.I don't know how the inspector will do the inspection of the crawl space because it's so wet. I talked to a termite inspector and asked how they handle it and he said "we're not required to go into a crawl and crawl through mud and sewage"Anyway it's going to be interesting to see what happens if the offer is accepted.
Sorry to hear that you might be hanging up the tool belt Paul - best of luck with the home inspection work.
My father went the same route when he retired recently. He was disapointed to find so little business (he's in Rhode Island), but the housing market is also in the tank right now, so who can tell?
Seems like a fun business, though. Make friends with realtors and then ride their wave.
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
The HI who did the house we just sold took about 4 hours. Went in the attic, on the roof, under the house, etc. He had a clipboard w/ a punch list, and a digital camera while he was investigating. When the checklist was done he brought his laptop and a small HP scanner/printer/copier in the house. He discussed the issues that came up w/ the prospective buyers as he filled in the blanks in his program, inserted pics where they applied and printed the whole thing out. The last couple of pages were the legalese. The only things he found were where a beam under the house needed a shim, and I had forgotten the earthquake strapping around the water heater. Three or four other items were for the sake of looking like he had done his job. Having restored the house, I could have named a dozen of more significant "issues" that he missed that I didn't have the time to finish the way I wanted to .2.5 to 3 hours walking around and crawling under the house and around an hour talking to the buyers and he was done. Paperwork and all. I'm not sure, but I think he charged around $450. He said that he was in construction for about 25 years before becoming a HI, and that the training he got to become a HI taught him way more about the way a house/building worked than he had learned in that time, and what to look for. Who knows?Seemed like good money for the time.Ott
Piffin,
Not really an answer to your questions but a few comments.
I have thought about the same game, decided against it for myself.
However , I wonder if you have looked into simply being a building consultant.
Realtors that I have worked for always seemed eager for a knowledgeable person who could dissect an older building and offer insights into what may or may not be possible in the way of remodels. Whats original and whats not.
What needs doing and what can be let slide awhile.
Drawing plans for additions/remodels. You are savvy about Cad so that should be an easy one.
Consulting on site with owner/builders on their projects.
Just thoughts.
I have made pretty good change over the years doing these things on the side, I think there is a market with willing clientèle out there if one wanted to develop the market.
No idea of quantity of hours you want to work or income needed.
" Drawing plans for additions/remodels. You are savvy about Cad so that should be an easy one.Consulting on site with owner/builders on their projects."So far, the couple of feelers I put out there are leading me to think I can do better that way than inspeccting. Sales agfent from one lumberyard told me that aat least once month somebody asks him who can they get to help them design/draft a set of plans.
That is one I would enjoy more and do less traveling for the money
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Piffin, Take it a step further. Now that you are a publicly recognized author and expert in the building field how about a newspaper column? radio show? Go into to competition with breaktime and open a pay for answer web site. Help owners choose between contractors, set contracts etc., find the right items to suit the needs. Historical research on building components. From what I have observed you have a passion and a gift for teaching . Follow it.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
My wife said I should find a way to get paid for what I do here free.
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Your wife should be listened to !!!! I am serious. I have met a few "Home Improv " people who have had shows and columns. Everyone of them was a hack and wouldn't have lasted ten minutes on one of my sites. Besides your first months worth of callers would be from here!!
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
This is exactly what I am suggesting. Being the "Go To" guy for the DYI. Crew.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=96966.1
I'm contracting the building of my own home. Besides the city inspector checking to make sure everything is up to code, I also hired a licensed BI to do a QC check. For $600, he does three inspections. The first inspection was just before the foundation was poured. The second and biggest inspection was just before drywall. The third will be the final. Smartest $600 I ever spent.
If I thought a subcontractor was not doing something right, I could call and get a quick answer. I was very careful not to abuse the privilege and only needed answers a couple of times, but for those times it was very good to have somebody really knowledgable on my side.
I was present for the inspections and at the end I knew why he marked things up and why it was important. I didn't have to argue with my subcontractors, I just gave the a copy of the list the inspector gave me.
I haven't been impressed (at all) with HI's that I've used. They seem to know less that I do about construction and I suspect that they are playing politics (helping the agent close deal instead of truly representing the buyer).
Given your immense knowledge of residential (commercial?) construction, maybe you could bill yourself as a construction consultant instead. Maybe someone who HO's or builders use to solve tricky or persistent problems. You could charge much more that a HI would.
I have also looked into becoming a home inspector.
I know a few real estate agents, and to echo a common theme, it really IS all about not killing the deal.
Kind of a Catch-22... you need the Realtor for the referral... but if you kill a deal, no more referrals.
The reports I have read have so much wiggle room and exclusions buried in fine print, they almost seem meaningless.
While a home inspection may help those that do not understand the details of construction, I fail to understand how a Realtor referred inspector is ever truly unbiased.
You're way too much of a creative problem-solver to just look for and write about problems all day without any input into what the solution would be.
Home inspections I've had or been on last 2 hours or so, inspectors know more about HVAC and electrical than I do but aren't up to date on insulation, venting, etc. A basic report is mailed in a few days and the cost is $300 or so. That's Portland, Bethel, Boston, and Nantucket. It just doesn't sound like you though.
You would have no problem at all getting lots of design work if you don't mind venturing to the mainland. PiffinPlans. ShelterNerd's idea of being an energy consultant is a good one too, but based on the limited population within driving distance for you it might not be feasible except in conjunction with a design business.
The other day i was talking with a guy - maybe I already mentioned this - dunno, but he is the lumberyard sales agent here. I asked for his feedback since he knows the area - been around here all his life.He said that at least once a month he has somebody asking him who they can get to help them design/draw up plans - short of hiring an architect.
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Whenever I've hung out my shingle as a designer here, and when I worked in the office at Fine Lines, there was no shortage of work. Real or perceived, people think architects are big-time and out to screw them, to build their own idea instead of what the client wants. Building designers, who actually know how to build a house, seem to appeal to a lot of people. But you already know that because it's a lot of what you do now, right?
Have you looked into the ABID and the K+BA for their stamp of approval? Lends a little legitimacy but I don't know how much.
You already have Softplan and know how to use it.
Why wouldn't you go that route instead of Building Inspector? Afraid the hourly pay wouldn't be as good?
I may very well be doing just that.There is a potential for conflict and stress if I am not careful about managing client expectations.Money would be fine.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I have a better and easier Job for you. Teach. Every night you go to a classroom with 30-40 people who will pay you $20-$40 a night each. You hit on one subject a night and give handouts. Entertain the class with your "War Stories". The last hours will be question and answer time. There are so many Do it Yourselfers who need a source.
As you accumulate handouts, it will later be added to you book required for the class. This book will then turn into a training manual that will teach others to teach, that you will franchise. All the Breaktime guys will teach across the whole country.
Something else that home inspectors have to deal with is inspecting homes which have no gas, water, or electricity.I was in Denver two weeks ago and my brother is a realtor and he asked if I wanted to go to a HUD inspection. My brother is working with the buyer.We arrived at the home and the inspector was there. He is a home inspector with an engineering degree and very sharp.Shortly after the city of Denver employee arrived and turned on the water. On this house the electricity had been left on.The home was built in 2002 and was a nice home. It was not your typical trashed out hud home or bank foreclosure.Anyway, the paperwork from hud said the plumbing had been pressure tested and it had a leak. So the inspector went through the house and shut off all faucets and then went to the basement and turned on the water at the main shut off.We could hear water running even though the faucets were shut off. The inspector ran upstairs and at the second floor shower he listened and could hear water dripping in the wall.He ran downstairs and shut off the main water valve. He completed his inspection and an hour of so later we left.As we were leaving I noticed water dripping from the ceiling of the dining room directly below the shower with the leaky plumbing hidden in the wall.We drove home and I asked my brother who is responsible for the damage (probably minimal) we did to the ceiling and he said "the home inspector".Others may have a different perspective and maybe it's the realtor's responsibilty or the buyer. But apparently in Denver it's the home inspector's liability when damage occurs during an inspection.
I have seen nearly the same thing. I was inspecting one and haad been told there was a leak someplace, probably from freezing water left in the system through winter after the previous owner died.So I simply noted that fact in the report and did not try turning on the water.This Denver guy was already in possesion of a written notation from Hud that there was a leak, so I would see him as negligent.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"This Denver guy was already in possession of a written notation from Hud that there was a leak, so I would see him as negligent."I can also see an argument for him being held liable. He knew there was a leak. Yet he turned on the water anyway, causing damage.Unless he was hired to investigate the source or extent of the leak, perhaps he should have left well enough alone.Mongo
Edited 11/16/2007 3:49 pm ET by Mongo
We're talking an empty HUD house, aren't we?
Ain't nobody gonna say anything. They's lucky there are toilets left.
Back when I was a HI, I would never turn on a valve that was closed or energize a circuit that was shut off. I had no idea why it was turned off and did not want to assume the liability of something going wrong. The RE agents used to gang up with the buyers and push me hard to turn things on. I always told them I would with a signed note from either of them taking on the responsibilty.
It really was a lose/lose deal. Nobody liked it
The few home inspectors I have dealt with on real estate transactions seemed to use a form letter for the report. I found things in the one guys report that either didn't apply to the house, or they had been updated (GFI's in the bath & kitchen) and he never checked them off. This report seemed to be geared towards selling his services for referenced repairs. I sent back a letter refuting the individual line items and gave the buyer a $300 credit for legitimate item. It seems to me that you could organize the report from the footings up one time in, then customize the base document for the individual property.
Piffin,
I was flipping through an old FHB this morning and ran across an ad for this company that designs and sells small house plans. They're in ME, so perhaps you've run across them before.
http://luciaslittlehouses.com/
Wondered if you had given this area a thought. Would seem to be a whole lot more fun and probably more profitable than poking around old attics as an inspector. And you can do it all from your Barcalounger :)
Best,
Steve