*
I live in the Dallas, Texas area and would like to build a storm shelter/wine cellar. I’ve been told that the expansion and contraction of the clay soil (as the moisture content varies) makes this type of construction impractical. Is this true and, if so, are there new materials or techniques to solve this problem?
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
The FHB Podcast crew takes a closer look at an interesting roof.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
*
Hi Lee,
Ed should be looking at this one.
Assuming that your shelter/wine cellar (what a way to wait out a storm, hic)is not attached to your home, it simply becomes a matter of isolating the shelter from the clay. Excavate, lay down a base of granular material, build your shelter, I assume it's masonry or concrete, backfill with granular material and everything should be fine.
If it's attached or in the basement of your existing house, you still have to isolate from the clay, but you also have to consider the existing house. For this I would need to know more information about the construction details.
(size, construction materials, method, location, depth, cover etc.)
Gabe
*
The idea for the shelter is in the conceptual phase. This started as a project to simply extend the back patio of my house. What I would like to do is to dig down deep enough to pour a concrete foundation, build up either concrete block or poured concrete walls, and reinforce the 8' ceiling in order to pour an exposed aggregate concrete patio over the top of the whole thing (leaving an opening for access, of course). 150 sq ft minimum. Bigger is better but the whole thing will be driven by cost and feasibility of construction. This idea was inspired by the images of the aftermath of the tornado that struck Jarrell, TX a few years ago. The only remnants of an entire residential area were the foundations. Hopefully it will never have to be used as a storm shelter... so why not make it a wine cellar too?
*
Hi Lee,
What is your existing foundation? Concrete? Masonry? And how high is it clear?
Access to a shelter is paramount in a critical emergency, Obviously, the basement is normally the quickest to get to in most homes.
Sorry for the questions, but they all count.
Gabe
*
Just about every house in this area is on a concrete slab foundation (including mine) and they just don't build basements in Texas as a general rule. It's a real trick just to keep the slab from cracking and failing. As I said, the soil has a high clay content and is not very stable. Foundation repair is big business here. The slab extends about 4 to 6 inches higher than the finish grade which is fairly level.
*Remember, you will have to insulate the ceiling of the shelter if you plan to use this as a wine cellar. You don't want your cache for wine becoming overheated.
*
Hi Lee,
Okay, then back to post no 1.
Dig a large hole, put in a good base, build it, backfill with granular and it will be stable.
A lot of time, because of geographic differences and local conditions, we assume everyone sees as we see, which is wrong.
I have built a few commercial buildings on floating structural slabs because of unstable ground and cost effectiveness.
But in residential, I would never consider a house without a full, 9' ceiling. But you don't have 3 feet of frost every winter either.
Maybe Ed can help out here with local input.
Gabe
*
Ok, but I have a few more questions...
1. Are you saying that the shelter should have a 9' ceiling?
2. How should the ceiling be reinforced to support the patio above?
3. Is concrete block the way to go for walls or should they be poured concrete?
4. Finally, you have referred to "Ed" a couple times
and being new to this forum I'm afraid I don't know who that is.
Thanks for your help!
*
Hi Lee,
No Lee, what I was indicating was what we routinely do here, with the 9 foot ceilings. We do this to ensure room for any ductwork and piping. I strongly resist cutting into joists to install any of this stuff.
An 8 foot ceiling would be fine.
2. The ceiling will be structural and should be designed by a local engineer or designer qualified in steel layout and familiar with your local code requirements.
3. It normally makes no difference whether you go with blocks or poured concrete. This is often a matter of local conditions and prices for the various components of each.
4. Ed Williams is a Dallas contractor that is a frequent contributor to this forum and a very experienced one at that. If you check the archieves you can find his posts and his Email address.
Gabe
*
Gabe,
Thank you for all the info!
Lee.
*
You're welcome and have fun
Gabe
*Lee,Sorry it took me so long to get to this post.I got your email, but when I tried to reply.....no luck.I'd be glad to talk with you.Email me back a phone number and I'll give you a call.Thanks,Ed. Williams
*
Hi Lee, We are GREENBLOCK Dealers and installers in Dallas. GREENBLOCK is an insulating concrete form. We have a lot of experiance with basements in this area. We also build above grade safe rooms. Give us a call (972)291-5995.
*
Lee,
I couldn't get the email to ge through, and I couldn't reach you at work......not my day.
Here goes,
People in Dallas build basements all the time. It is a specialized service that involves people who really know what they are doing. There are a thousand things to consider before jumping in and digging a hole in the backyard.
We are not general contractors. From my many years in residential building I have learned about all aspects of home building, but our company specializes in carpentry and cabinetry only. Our clients are usually the general contractors themselves. We don't do a lot of work for the public at large. Therefore we would not be able to take on this project for you. Sorry.
There is a post here that I see from a company here in Dallas that does what you want. I don't know them and have never worked with them, but you should probably give them a call. They should be able to tell you better than I could about the project and its cost.
Good luck,
Ed. Williams
*
Thanks Ed. I did talk to the gentleman at Greenblock and he gave me a great deal of information. It turns out that his office is close to where I live in Midlothian. Talk about a small world! I searched the world wide web and found what I needed in my own back yard. Greenblock specializes in insulated concrete forms. Any opinion on this product? Thanks again.
Lee
*
I live in the Dallas, Texas area and would like to build a storm shelter/wine cellar. I've been told that the expansion and contraction of the clay soil (as the moisture content varies) makes this type of construction impractical. Is this true and, if so, are there new materials or techniques to solve this problem?
*
Lee,
Don't know anything about them. My experience is more with plywood formed pier and beam foundations.
You might check the FHB back issues. It seems to me that they did an article on that subject once.
Good luck.
Trust your gut,
Ed. Williams