Best flooring choice for novice instal’r
forestgirl
| Posted in General Discussion on
Hi Guys, FG here, escapee from Knots. We absolutely must get rid of our carpet. Small living room, but kinda weird in shape. Want to go hardwood or laminate, and install it ourselves. I’m impressed with what I’ve heard about pre-finished hardwood, but not sure we can afford it. Glueless laminate gets my attention due to ease of installation.
Fancy, value-adding characteristics aren’t high-priority, pretty low-end house here, but wearability (dogs and mud) and ease of installation rank pretty high.
Questions:
- Is there such a thing as glueless hardwood?
- What about classified ads where someone’s selling off a few hundred square-feet of this or that? Can these be OK? What should we look for in the caveat emptor vein? I do have a moisture meter if that helps.
TIA!!
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Replies
"Best flooring choice for novice instal'r"
Dirt.
"Is there such a thing as glueless hardwood?"
There is a hardwood floor that uses metal clips on the bottom. But I think that is expensive.
There are several "glueless" engineered wood floors.
One of them, I think that it is a Bruce product, actually has glue built in. But when it is jointed the glue is activated. I have not research all of them, but I think that some of the engineeered wood floors have snap and click installs like the laminate floors.
I've put a bit of the laminate floor before. Aside from the first 2-3 rows, it's a breeze, and goes together very fast. If you do use it, make sure you have a couple of blades handy, because it dulls them quick. I don't think that animals would have much affect on the surface- probably less than they would on hardwood, but don't quote me on that. Water is #1 enemy to the stuff though--if you spill on it, don't wait to clean it up, the seams will buckle up on you (Happened in the laundry room--washer shook off some cleaning product, which soaked in). It's not a bad idea to buy the installation kit either, mostly for the little block to knock it all together. Good luck.
Young, poor, and eager to learn
I agree with MikeCallahan, real wood or nothing!!!!
Don't waste your time and money on the laminate crap.
Was called to a HO doing laminate DIY and they were a mess. I was 2 blocks away so I stopped by to give them some advice (free). First thing I saw was every joint was a gap. I told them to take it all apart and that it needed to be redone. They didn't have a freaking clue. They wanted to hire me on the spot and I declined because I hate the stuff and don't believe in it (although it is extremely popular). Carpet would have been better.
http://grungefm.com
"I agree with MikeCallahan, real wood or nothing!!!!"So you agree with my suggestion.
I agree with what SB said above. Today's laminates (if you buy reasonable quality) are pretty indestrucable.
In my experience laminate is relatively labor-intensive if you want to do it properly: level floor, put down poly (if over concrete) and cushion, wedges around perimeter, snap and snug each piece with a mallet, cut custom pieces as needed. Trim.
We've had tenants for a year now with a dog, two cats, and an active lifestyle and the floor looks fine.
On the other hand, with a name like "forest girl" you may be philosphically opposed to the notion of a completely manufactered, plasticized, totally 'fake' product in your house. Personally, I think it's OK for our rental suite but it's not in character for our part of the house.
Scott.
Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
Edited 8/25/2006 1:38 am by Scott
"...with a name like "forest girl" you may be philosphically opposed to the notion of a completely manufactered, plasticized, totally 'fake' product in your house." Nahhhh, not this house. Any kind of luck, we'll be out of here in 2, maybe 3 years. It's an old "project house" built in the '40's sitting on a very expensive piece of land. Someone will buy it, subdivide it and put up a couple of big family homes probably. Thanks for the feedback on wear value for the laminate!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Laminate will not hold up to dog traffic. It can not be refinished. Maybe some of it can but not more than once I bet. I think you should go with real wood. When it gets too scuffed then you can refinish it over and over.. We shopped around and found 1000 SQ FT of red oak 2.5" x 3/4" x random length for under $3.00 / SQ FT but that was about four years ago now. And it was prefinished too. I would have to ask my wife for the source. She is the super shopper. It has resisted heavy dog traffic for at least four years now. We have four big active dogs inside and out constantly.
For dogs you can't beat slate. Dogs only make the patina better with age. You can get a pretty nice 12x12 tile from China for under 2.00 at the slow depot. You have to install it though and that is not real easy but what is?
"Maybe some of it can but not more than once I bet. "NO laminate can be refinished. It is just a thin plastic coating over a picture of wood.
I've seen laminate floors (it was Pergo brand) in homes with dogs. At least one floor was 2 years old and there wasn't a single visible scratch. So I'm thinking it DOES hold up to dog traffic.
What was the situation that made you think that it doesn't?
-Don
if I had dogs and water and wanted a long wearing lam, I would use the Formica one
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I have had many dogs. Mostly coonhounds and huskies, They often scratch a floor three or four times before they circle four or five times and lay down. Multiply that for years and your floor finish is toast.
You have cornered me. I don't have any experience living with laminate. I like REAL no matter what. Real wood, real stone, and no fake s---. It doesn't cost that much more if you install it yourself. I like to make stuff that will last 300 years. It is kind of a legacy mindset I guess. When you think my way then laminate is just landfill.Mike Callahan, Lake Tahoe, Ca.
300 years?
How old is the most antique building where you operate?
Here is the website for you, for rediscovering a nice durable material: http://www.romanconcrete.com/
When Vesuvius blew its top in 79 A.D., the big seaside villas the wealthy had built there had been built over 300 years earlier.
I should have mentioned, I guess, that there will be an area rug or two for the dogs. Something we can send out to be cleaned a couple times a year. So we won't be exposing the entire floor to dog nails. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"Laminate will not hold up to dog traffic."
false.
Welcome to Breaktime. Aren't you the one that works in a high-line tool store ?
Comments here, over the years, about dogs and laminate flooring lead me to believe it may not be a good idea if you have large dogs. They can't get a grip on the slick laminate, and I've even heard of hip problems from skating falls. Picture the old Road-Runner cartoons, madly peddling away, but getting nowhere !
The true carftsmen here don't like laminate flooring at all - I agree that it's not Fine homebuilding. But my family is very hard on flooring - sheet vinyl would only hold up about three years. I put down 600 sq. ft. of Pergo about 8 years ago, the old glued variety, and it looks like the day I put it down. They market it as being ten times the hardness of a laminate countetop. Even though it's plastic ( and I, too, really like real wood ! ) and just a photograph of wood, it really wears well.
I'm stuck in a '70s tract house, so vinyl siding on the gables and a plastic floor really doesn't matter !
Greg
"Aren't you the one that works in a high-line tool store?" Nope, sorry, not me. Will be looking for a job soon though, LOL, just sold my business. I get September off to do taxes and help build our deck.
I hear ya about the sliding dog problem. We have a 96# collie and an 82# Golden Retriever (and an 8# cat for seasoning). Problem is the animal hair, it's driving me nuts. Also, the Retriever has allergies (so do I for that matter). So, it's out with the dust/pollen/hair-trapping carpet, and in with hardwood/laminate, and area rugs that can be sent out to be cleaned.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
A friend of mine with basic carpentry skills did most of his house recently using Mirage prefinished hardwood strip flooring, with the microbevel edge. Solid wood, it can be sanded and refinished, but the factory finish is quite hard and durable.
Turned out beautiful.
I can't think of a flooring material that would be easier for a novice than laminate. I did a big area (kit/dining area/family room) for a client about 5-6 years ago with the Pergo brand. All you need is a good SCMS with a sharp blade. Cut it, glue it, bang it together. As far as wearability is concerned, I don't know about other brands, but the Pergo in this case seems bulletproof. These people have three rumbunctious kids and a dog whose nails are always too long. I saw it recently, and there was no noticeable scratches as you were walking around.However, no one will mistake a laminate floor for real wood.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
pre-finished hardwood is the only way to go for a first timer when you do not want to bother with sanding, sealing, and finishing -- dollarwise it is $3; $3.50; or $4 a sf from HD -- Lumber Liq might have it cheaper but you pay for what you get -- two of you can do 400sf in a day easily -- nailing is so easy -- Dudley
pls dont lead her to a false sense of security.
...what you say may be true. but she could also be lead into a nightmare if she purchases a cheap product, that is not milled with a high degree of quality.
for for further info see my thread on keeping rows straight in hardwood install.
and even further info, go to http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com and read my post in the general message board regarding "varying widths"
Also, part of a good install is proper floor prep. if her floor is "bad" it is imperitive that it be corrected. again good info on the site I listed.
"see my thread on keeping rows straight in hardwood install." Any chance you could provide a link? My search efforts were fruitless. Thanks.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I renewed the thread for you...I couldn't recall the exact name..so I kept going next 50 'til I found it..it wasn't that old.
I often have trouble with the search enigen myself..it often seems to come up with unrealted topics.
the name is called " keeping hardwood install straight"
And by the way I wasn't trying to alarm you....you could be fine, but you should just be aware that if you do run into problems you could be walking into a nightmare.
I will tell you though.... 1st off make sure that the product you purchse has a warranty, if you do run into a quality problem. STOP teh install. if you complete the install and it looks terrible due to poor quality...too late, as once installed the product is construed as accepted.
I was fortunate, that I made the call to quit. a file will be claimed now...it is a weeks delay to get the rep out...but the Home owner will either be discounted or choose another product.
PS I highly highly recommend that you check out the hardwoodinstallers site.
find the message board and look under general hard wood; you can read more about what happened to me. I beleive I titled it as "help - varying board widths"
as well the site provides excellent info that you should read and use.
Edited 8/28/2006 12:16 am ET by alrightythen
Edited 8/28/2006 12:30 am ET by alrightythen
I am about to attempt to redo a room that has face nailed, 5/16 x 2", red oak strips. The local supplier has it for $2.56/sq ft. Possibly cheaper if I looked around more. I am not exactly sure how tight to push the strips together, but being the dry season here, I am not going to force them that much. Plan on trying a 16 gauge air nailer, the primary question being how close to the end of the strip I can get without splitting the strip. The problem I have had with the red oak strips is that they can cup or buckle if they stay wet for a while, like when a renter has a dog with a weak bladder with a carpet over the hardwood floor.
I have laminate in my basement, conventional hardwood upstairs, and prefinished in my ski place.
The laminate is Alloc's stuff, ordered from floorshop.com. It has an aluminum strip so that it locks together tightly. Easy to put down once you get the floor prepared, and holds up nicely to our dog. Need to be careful with moisture on any laminate floor.
The prefinished is a rustic maple from lumber liquidators (husky brand, now berry floors...). It was some pretty nice stuff, but it takes a fair bit of effort to staple down. If you go that route, buy Taunton's book on floors. Also okay with the dog.
The dog isn't allowed upstairs, but would tear the finish up quickly if he was.