With a little help from Rojek, I’ve got my table saw tuned up and cross-cutting panels nice and square. (Both the saw and Rojek’s service have been great for me.) http://www.rojekusa.com/PHP/pk300v.php
Anyway, I’m going to do a simple upper cabinet and was looking at some paint-grade plywood options.
My homecenter has three options for 3/4″ birch ply. There are two “premium” grades that are indentical, expect one is MDF core and one is plywood core. These are about $60 per sheet.
They also have another grade that’s plywood core, but with thinner veneers. These are on sale for $26 per sheet. They were sanded and the veneer looked pretty good.
I definitely want plwyood core. So, given the difference in price, does it make sense to spend double for a project that will be painted?
Thanks for any thoughts….
Patrick
Replies
good prep work and paint job go with the less $
The cheap stuff should be OK for paint grade work. Look at the plies closely and be sure they are not delaminating. There is a lot of Chinese plywood on the market that comes apart. Sometimes it doesn't delaminate until after you cut it.
I went with the chinese birch ply once, (it was ~ $25/sheet) and swore never again, paint grade or otherwise. The veneer was paper thin, it delaminated everywhere I tried to put fasteners into the edge, and it smelled awful when I cut it.
I'd vote no.
This "Chines birch" stuff ... is this the same stuff that Lowe's is selling? They call it "blondewood," and it has 13-plys with paper-thin veneers. 3/4" thick costs about $25-30 and the sheets are rarely "flat," but it's still way nicer than BCX.
that's the trash...
it's closer to 11 and 13/16" (both different sheets and at the same time the same sheet) than 3/4....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
I still prefer the Baltic Birch. Thinner plies, cleaner cuts, holds screws better. Pay for what you get...
Baltic birch is miles aheaad of chinese. I'd use it in a heartbeat. Chinese has almost twice as many polies. Baltic is 5'x5' chinese is 4x8
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Last sheets of Baltic I bought were 4X8. I was suspicious, but they showed me the lading bill, and it was "Russian Birch."
I guess that's Baltic enough for me. ;-)
Thanks IMERC.It does have a stench to it. What is interesting is that one side looks like Birch with closed grain and the other side looks like Luaun with open grain. Except for oak, it's about the nicest plywood I can find close by since my options are Lowes, Home Depot, and 84 Lumber.
look for MDO...
Lowes carries it...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Thanks IMERC,Where you at? I have never found MDO at the Lowe's near me. I've only found MDF, which I don't like that much. Right now I'm building countertops with 3/4" MDF because the home stores have dropped 3/4" particle board, and carry only 5/8" instead. E.g. I was using a wet rag to wipe up glue squeeze out and left it on the MDF -- it ruined the surface. It was on the underside, but if had been on top, I could not laminate over it.Is MDO (if available) good for c'tops covered with laminate? Any one have other ideas for laminate subbase? How about Chinese birch?
Colorado...
just say no to Chinese...
never used it for the counter tops.... try HDO for that...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
<just say no to Chinese...>IMERC, but it's the Chinese money that "fueling" our economic recovery
and if we were to keep more of that money here...
and pay our own instead of off shore workers...
and generate/improve more of an internal economic system...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
MEDEX is an exterior MDF that I have used for lam counter tops. No problemo, even around sink and immediately above the dishwasher. I'd use fir AC ply before I'd ever touch Chinese birch ply again for anything other than kindling
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
suspect you really don't wanna burn any chinese ply...
WTB there would be major toxin issues...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Seeing as your profile says you are from SW PA and your name implies you are from Pittsburgh....there is a large sheetgood wholesaler in the strip district towards Lawrencville that would probably have anything you need in stock.
A couple of years ago I purchased quarter sawn and plain sliced white oak plywood from them ... and it wasn't a special order.
Not sure if they are supposed to be selling to individuals but they didn't seem to care. Can't remember the name of the place but I found it through a Google Search approximately 4 years ago so hopefully they are still in business.
Hope this helps!
Dan
thickness variation wouldn't have anything to do with the 13 ply being 14 or 15 thick in some areas would it? :)
yup...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
BCX is a constrution grade, not cabinet wood. Not even close to same consideration
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Used a lot of that 'blonde' wood on some built-ins for a non-profit a few years ago. Everything was exposed, meant to have a kind of natural look.
It's o.k. if you're not picky, but definitely chancy. i found innumerable voids underneath.
Does anyone think that this 13-ply Chinese birch plywood -- called "blonde wood" at Lowe's -- with luaun veneer on the back side -- has improved in the last few years???I'm not saying the defects don't exist -- I just haven't seen them -- not that I've used a lot of the stuff though. I do plan to use it on a painted wainscot family room coming up. I feel stuck without many alternatives at this point. Since this "blondewood" came along, I have less options than I did before at the home centers. I've never seen MDO or MEDEX. You guys must be special ordering the better stuff. Many guys here talk about their local lumber yard, but mine is 84 Lumber, and it's slowly tanking since the owner passed away.
Options like blondewood are probably fine. It's just you may be filling gaps and doing some extra sanding. If you're routing edges or doing anything fancy, the extra $40 per sheet might be worth it.
MEDEX may be special order, but MDO should be common. You might call a sign company and ask where they get their materials. Both are used for signage because they're stable and monolithic (think highway signs).
Chinese ply...
no way...
learned my leason...
irregular, delaminates, large voids and the stuff stinks... litteraly....
train wreck in progress...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
consider MDO....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
IMERC is on to it. MDO takes paint great. I've used it for indoor and outdoor projects. In July 1/2" was $45/sheet.
Mark
might as well give him this to go with it...
http://www.canply.org/english/products/overlaidplywood.htm
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Couldn't have said it any better than that web site!
Mark
The cheap with multiple core plies is made in china and it is terrible stuff. Will wrinkle up like an old woman at the drop of a hat.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
maybe ya sould take the old woman out of the hat before ya drop it...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
what Piffin said, stuff is awful.
Paint-grade or "D" grade ply usually has filled knots or other blemishes that you won't notice under a good coat of primer and paint. I don't ever by birch, only maple or some fine grained south American species or which I can't remember now.
A good way to check for voids is to lightly run your fingernails over the entire sheet on both sides listening for a hollow sound as you scratch. That'll get you the big voids or delams.
There used to be ProCore ply that had a veneer core but the last lam was a thin sheet of MDF that assured no delamming. Didn't cost any more in the upper grades.
Thanks to the posts here, I think I got lucky with this one.
The lumber yard had two sheets of 3/4 MDO that were on clearance for $20 per sheet. Perfect condition, with the exception of one little nick in the paper, which will be hidden in a corner.
It's great to finally have a solid answer about the less expensive plywood. I appreciate everybody's advice!
Time to start cutting!
Thanks again.
To add to all the above comments, I used some of that Chinese birch ply for some built-ins a couple of years back. I usually prime the whole sheet before I start cutting, and the primer really showed off the waviness of the face veneers. Had to use 3 coats of high-build primer, sanding pretty heavily between coats, before I felt it would be acceptable.It's not worth the initial savings, IMO.
If "home center" translates to Home Depot, I would stay far away from the $26/sheet ply. The last time I bought any of that stuff (a couple of years ago), it delaminated like a SOB and was totally useless. When I tried to return it, the brain dead return clerk did't want to accept it because "you've cut it". She couldn't grasp the concept that the problem wasn't apparent until after I had cut it!! Even the store manager didn't understand that delaminated plywood was useless to a cabinet maker.
For upper cabinets, I prefer plywood core - if it has at least five plys. Anything less will probably warp, twist, cup, bow, or all of the above.
Veneer thickness isn't terribly important for a paint grade project since veneer sand thrus are easily hidden. For stain grade work, you want a thicker veneer - or be VERY careful with your sander.
If "home center" translates to Home Depot, I would stay far away from the $26/sheet ply. The last time I bought any of that stuff (a couple of years ago), it delaminated like a SOB and was totally useless.
I purchased a half sheet of birch plywood ($25 a half sheet at Lowe's) for a custom gable vent I was building. I knew I'd be finishing it with a couple of coats of fiberglass resin, then paint, so I didn't worry about the chipping at the edges when I cut it. But I was surprised that some big chunks blew out, and when I pulled some of the loose chips, some big pieces just peeled off. Inferior glue between plies. Very shoddy stuff.
View ImageView Image bakersfieldremodel.com
I haven't bought any big box plywood sine the episode I mentioned and can't imagine ever buying any.I get really good prices from a local hardwood and lumber store, and the lower aggravation factor more than makes up for the extra money it costs. My customers want (and pay for) my "A" game and I can't give them that with minor league materials. - lol
If "home center" translates to Home Depot, I would stay far away from the $26/sheet ply.
Judging from the OP's location (Wisconsin) and the list he gave of the various options, I'm pretty sure he's talking about Menards. They actually have a pretty interesting mix of ply available - far more options than HD or Lowes.
They carry a nice "Baltic" birch ply (in 4x8), MDF and veneer-core oak/maple/birch ply, which is advertised as USA-made, MDO, and Arauco ply, which I've never used but looks interesting, though not for paint-grade stuff I don't think.
This is in addition to the standard home-center Chinese birch stuff, CDX, etc.
Could be. We don't have Menards around here, but I wouldn't be surprised if their $26/sheet ply came from the same source.