I installed the cover plate on the outlet box the other day and found that it would not seat flush to the wall, on one edge only. The left edge of the cover plate is fine, but the right edge sticks out about 1/8″. I guess what happened is that the stud twisted as it dried, and the rotation pushed the right edge of the outlet beyond the plane of the finished wall. My question is, what would be the best tool to use to grind off the blue plastic edging of the outlet box? A utility knife doesn’t really work for me. This is a pretty trivial problem, but I thought I’d see if any of you could help. Thanks.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
A brushless motor and 36v batteries power Metabo HPT’s cordless rebar bender and cutter.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
Barbara,
A Dremel tool with a carbide burr will make quick work of the blue PVC, and is easy to control. Just take your time.
A good new blade in the utility knife works wonders. The trick is to remove the plastic in thin layers, not all at once. Think along the lines of a hand plane.
Bill
I did what Bill suggested just last week using my Rotozip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFexyK8J1Iw
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
You could also use one of those utility knives that has the snap-off blades. You could extend it and use it like a mini-saw.
HTH,
Ed
Fine tooth hacksaw blade. Turn breaker off first.
Guess how I know?
I was trying to edit in a jab saw but it wouldn't take.
Edited 3/7/2007 8:04 pm by ClaysWorld
Edited 3/7/2007 8:06 pm by ClaysWorld
clay..
sometimes u yust kill me ..........Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Buy a cheapie hacksaw blade holder that only holds one end, the other end of the blade is free. Bend the blade into a shallow Z so you have clearance for your hand.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Of course, the other option is to just give the thing a good whack.
So the original post stated that the blue box was crooked in the wall. He asked what to do to level the surface. A lot of suggestions have to do with removing the protuding material. I like your suggestion of giving it a good whack.
None of the suggestions that remove the protuding box material address the fact that the box will still be crooked. The outlet or switch will be mounted crooked. The wall plate covering the outlet or switch will be mounted crooked. And, even if the resultant gap is covered with caulk and/or paint, the caring home owner will always notice the crookedness every time he or she passes. This will become a sore point for customer word-of-mouth advertising.
In fact, there has to be a better "Fine Homebuilding" answer to correct this problem. Where are the quality builders in this discussion?
Actually, virtually every box installed anywhere (at least that I've seen) is a bit crooked, one way or the other. But if the box is sufficiently recessed (true, a problem in this case) then the strap screws don't need to be totally tight. Leave the screws a hair loose, put the cover plate on, tighten it up, and everything will square with the wall. If necessary, bend the strap ever so slightly.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Thank you for your thoughts. Usually, as a home owner, after ten years I will replace every outlet and switch. What I find is that I often have to do just what you said to many of them (Yes, I am a perfectionist and I do not like this).
Consider the box that has multiple switches. Canting the switches still does not line up the switch plate with the wall--in fact, the angle of the switch faces that stick through the wall plate is now the obvious misalignment.
There use to be a metal plate shaped like a "TT" used to hold remodel boxes into the wall. Would this plate be able to hold the protuding end of the blue box flush with the wall after the box is pushed back and the wings are folded over the edge?
Yeah, the TT type plates are approximately what is needed. And I think there was some discussion earlier about some other device that does the same thing.I think that residential boxes should have facilities to adjust them after the drywall is up -- twisting the box on three axes and also allowing some in-out motion to flush it up with the wall. And the plastic boxes should have plaster ears on the outer edge.Of course, much of current wiring practice should be tossed and reinvented. The labor involved in wiring a single outlet, plus the chance of error in doing so, would make some other scheme very attractive, if it weren't for the inertial built into the industry.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
"I think that residential boxes should have facilities to adjust them after the drywall is up -- twisting the box on three axes and also allowing some in-out motion to flush it up with the wall."Well this might increase the price of the job just a wee bit!!! The in and out is available now in at least two versions. Arlington even has one that you can unscrew from the stud and reattach in a finished wall. But it is pricey compared to blue boxes."And the plastic boxes should have plaster ears on the outer edge."So how do you hang the drywall?Frank DuVal You can never make something foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
> "And the plastic boxes should have plaster ears on the outer edge."
>
> So how do you hang the drywall?The same way as alway. The plaster ears would sit about 7/16" back from the front lip of the box, so that they would catch the back of the drywall and keep the box edge from protruding.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Recepacles and Switches have plaster ears.The boxes have "lugs" or bumps that are suppose to be used to align them to the studs to so that they stick through the DW..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
So, invent another name for them. How about "rear surface alignment tabs".
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Seems to me that replacing the crooked stud would fix the problem.
Ozlander
rotate the rest of the house into alignment with the twisted stud..._______________________________________________________________
I just want you to feel you are doing well. I hate for people to die embarrassed. - Fezzik the giant
build another house abd leave out the twisted stud...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
now you're just being silly..._______________________________________________________________
I just want you to feel you are doing well. I hate for people to die embarrassed. - Fezzik the giant
You guys totally kill me. I haven't checked in for a couple days, and am stunned to see all the responses. I do have a rotozip, and will try that first. For those who were wondering what part of the box protruded where, it's the right edge, which stands proud of the wall about 1/8". Of course the first thing I did was whack it, several times, but it didn't budge. Then I loosened up the screws holding the outlet to the blue plastic box and gave the outlet a twist, then screwed on the cover plate again. It closed the gap a little bit, but it still bugged me, which is why I posted on Breaktime. I think I can fix it now, and will take before and after photos to post here.
So it sounds like a faulty installation and not a twisted stud then aye?
I remember years back when setting outlet boxes on a buddy's upstairs renovation before the drywallers came in.
Years later the subject came up and he told me how mad he had been at me because I had placed all the outlet boxes out too far and he didn't catch it in time before they got covered.
I was puzzled what happened then he told me he was concerned about adding weight to the upstairs attic reno like that so he decided to use 3/8s board on all the walls. Roar!
every court needs a jester
Edited 3/9/2007 11:57 pm ET by rez
Go around to the other side of the wall.Cut a hole 2'x2'Reach through that hole, and pull the box back into alignment.Done.Or, you could take the cover off, build up around the box with some attractive trim, then put the cover back on, letting it rest against the face of the trim...;o)
Sometimes all it's about is just a good bowl of soup.
..and a sammich
Hit the box with three good blows with an axe.
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,Moves on: nor all your Piety nor WitShall lure it back to cancel half a Line,Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it." - Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam
The flat side of the axe or the sharp side?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
..LMAO.
.
.
., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
Actually, I can see how to accomplish most of it quite simply and cheaply:Have the box in basically two pieces, the main box and a sort of "mud ring". The box would be installed to stand back from the finished surface by about 3/8", just barely touching the back of 1/2" drywall in a standard installation. Plaster ears (to bear on the back of the drywall) all around would maintain this spacing.Once the drywall is up and the opening cut out, install the snap-in "mud ring". It would have ratchet fingers to snap tightly into the box, and there would be some sort of provision to "grab" the box and pull it into the ratchets. The strap screw holes would be in the mud ring.To handle the "yaw" axis, it's only necessary to be able to loosen (though not completely free) the box from the stud after the drywall's in place. This could be accomplished by pulling a lock pin out of the box so that the nailing ears become spring mounted, more or less (plastic springs). Then adjust the yaw as you tighten the mud ring.It might be desired to install some screws to tighten the mud ring against the drywall (and thus clamp the box in place) in some cases, but this probably wouldn't normally be needed.A similar approach could be used with the mud ring pre-installed in the box and then pulled outward (with ratchets) to be flush, but then some different provision would be needed to lock the box to the drywall.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Sorry, Dan, someone stole your idea. <G>
I recently used a couple of these Carlon box extenders in (sort of) the manner you're describing. The plastic extender slides just inside a plastic box and the plaster ears mean even if the sunken box isn't square to the plasterboard, it looks perfect when it's all snugged up. The longer bolts to attach the extender while anchoring the outlet are included in the packaging.
(I remedied 8 outlets for someone recently, done by a "licensed" guy, that varied from 1/8"+ to 7/8"-. Four more boxes just flopped around inside a drywall hole, untethered.)
View Image
Of course, one could plan ahead and use an adjust-a-box for the same cost, about $2.50 ea.
Yeah, I kinda had that in mind when I was thinking up the device. But with my scheme it would latch to the box with ratchets on the four corners (mating ratchets on the box) and would carry the holes for the strap screws. A couple of holes just off-center of the strap screw holes would allow screws to be used to secure the gizmo to the box (which would have holes for this, but "air" where the strap screws penetrate).
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
It's curious, reading this thread about all the fixes for the problem, why the standard box attachment isn't more fool-proof, requiring fewer routers, fold-over tabs, and mating box parts when it fails. I don't know if contractors get call-backs on this very often, but i've seen a lot of boxes not fit very close to the wall or feel less than secure after a few pluggings/unpluggings. Maybe people mostly just expect it now, but it would seem the aggravation and the effort required after the fact negates any speed in slamming them in with a couple common nails. I bought a case of nail-on boxes before i knew any better; i guess it's time to set them out on my "Free" corner, bec i'll never use them again.If someone doesn't want the mess of flying plastic and gypsum in their finished room, i've fixed this problem by sliding a door shim alongside the box and pressing the box level, then foaming in a bit of Great Stuff between box and DW. Let dry, snip the shim, reattach plate.
Yeah, that's my thought. The existing methods are 100 years old, with relatively minor modifications since. No truely new technology, beyond replacing fabric insulation with plastic and using wire nuts instead of solder and friction tape.Of course, the industry is risk-adverse, and the perverted truth is that it's safer (in terms of liability) to sell old style products that are more dangerous and awkward to use than newer products that are safer and easier to use.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
"There use to be a metal plate shaped like a "TT" used to hold remodel boxes into the wall. "There still is.One name for it is a madison clip..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
the original post stated the box was not FLUSH...with the wall
..she ....never wrote crookedgo back and read her post a little slower.
.
.
., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
Not sure how it can not be flush "on one edge only" without being crooked.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
from my perspective after putting outlets & switches in for many many years ..crooked is either vertical or horizontal, but I understand what you're sayin, I just would never say crooked when I mean flush.
.
.
., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
Chicago code requies boxes be crooked to match the inspectors!
hahahahah, yeahhey kid what does your dad do ?he's an inspector in Chicago ! ! honest ?"nah, just like the rest of 'em" ! !.
.
.
., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
Drill a leetle pilot hole and snug the back of the box down with a drywall screw.
OK ...I got it just cut a chunk of the wall out and patch in a new piece.....:)call back the tapers and the painters...Viola, all done.
.
.
., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
Just build up the one side with drywall mud, sand smooth, and paint. Then there will not be a gap between the cover plate and the wall. ;-)
Actually, I have to adjust one on a room addition I'm doing where the electrician put a box in a little proud. I think I'm going to use the router suggestion and trim the box flush with the wall.
Thanks!
Bryan"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
or just take a 5# hammer and adjust the trim plate.... just a little bit.
.
.
., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
No, the original post stated that, "it would not seat flush to the wall, on one edge only" which I took to mean that the box was crooked.
I see that .............I'll let it slide this time...:)
.
.
.
., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
The dremel tool sounds good. I use a small 4'' grinder for this problem. You will need to go slow and be careful, you do need to take the plastic off in layers. I have used this method for years even with boxes protuding as much as 3/8''.
Sounds like what I've done- 4 1/2" grinder with a sanding disc takes it down flush right quick.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
Whatever you do Turn Off The Power to that outlet/switch!
Japanese razor-thin pull saw.
Or... a chainsaw. Your choice.
If you choose the pull saw, yer a wimp.
;o)
router and a flush bit....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
You cannot take off too much, you'll
then be taking off some of the screw boss
no?
The OP said it was only a little bit proud ant there is approximately an inch or so of screw grab..Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
How will the flush bit work? The box is at the wrong angle."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
flush cut it...
use a straight or motising bit.......
2" blue tape on the wall and dress the box with the router..Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
CAULK IT !!
That works. I thought you meant a bearing guided flush cutting bit."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
the bearing guided bit looks like a wing cutter or modified viening bit..Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I have use my laminate router, Bosch Colt and a straight cutting bit.
Put some 2" blue painters tape on the wall, set the router depth to the low side of the box and cut.
ditto..Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Buy a mini hacksaw - about $5 - $10 from Lowes, HD, Ace etc. Blades are 6' long. Make sure you get a saw that allows for the blade to be turned 90 degrees to the saw. Handy tool - you'll find a lot of other uses for it.
And as everyone else has said, flip the circuit breaker off first!
Oh yeah, buy a package of extra blades too...
no need to cut anything. ask any electrical supply for a madison clip. they cost about 50 cents. it slips behind the sheetrock then you reposition the box and bend the taps over. the clip holds the front of the box securely against the back of the wall board.
The madison clip might not work (we call tem battleships). If the stud twisted and the box is tight against the stud, you won't be able to rotate it back flat."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I still say just give it a good whack.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
they always work, sometimes you need to knock the box slightly loose
either the stud twisted or the electrician was
Barbara,
Are you confused yet? Welcome to Breaktime, where every question spawns multiple valid answers, and a few bogus ones to keep you on your toes (chainsaw, indeed!).
Bill
I usually take a 2x4 block a give it a wack this usually does the trick
if it is real bad take a hacksaw blade and cut the nails @ the stud
and when the box is free adjust it to the right depth and screw the box to the stud with sheetrock screws from the inside.
you can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think.
Dremel tool with a diamond wheel. I discovered this by accident - it cuts plastic like butter, and a lot easier than griinding...