Now don’t get me wrong I respect most inspectors. But i thought I’d start a new thread.
Stupid and or unreasonable things inspectors have made you do. Also stupid things they have said.
And then throw in some good things we have learned from inspectors.
Listeners write in about removing masonry chimneys and ask about blocked ridge vents, deal-breakers with fixer-uppers, and flashing ledgers that are spaced from the wall.
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I think that one about not mixing different kinds of insulation was a candidate. It was two or three days ago. I don't remember what thread it was in.
I built a 16' wide x 8' deep gable roofed porch on the front of a house. Ceiling joists were 16' 2x6, 16" oc. 2x6 rafters, 16 oc 2x8 ridge. The inspector made us put collar ties in.
That is one of my favorites. Someone please tell me what collar ties do on a tarditional framed roof with ceiling joists. I've had some inspectors ask for collar ties butted up to the ridge. What the heck do those do!!
I started this thread and here is my all time favorite. I had a small semicircular one story room to build that would have a concrete slab for the floor. The access was next to impossible for even a small excavator. So when I went for my permit I explained that I wanted to do a monolithic pour, footings, walls and slab; one shot. I would make a template of the room out of 3/4 inch plywood about 12 inches wide and stake it to the ground. Hand dig a trench to the template 42" down for frost and about 16" wide. Use my template already staked in place as the begining of my form for the slab which was only going to be 8" out of the ground.
Good plan? I thought so. So the inspector says to me "I don't allow monolithic pours straight in the ground like that. Some of the other inspectors here do, but I don't."
So I looked him straight in the eye and said "Could I please speak to one of the other inpectors then?"
Well he immediatly realized that he was an idiot. I then had to pacify him by lining the outside of the excavation with 1/4" fan apart foam to make it smooth. He was concerned that a frost heave could catch the rough concrete and lift it.
I had another customer who wanted to finish a basement into a media room and put in a two burner cooktop, microwave and an undercounter fridge. Well the inspector saw that as a second kitchen and because in-law apartments were illegal at that time in that town he would not allow it. Now we could have sneaked them in after inspection but this customer wanted to do everything above board so the project got put on hold.
A couple of weeks later there was an article in the paper that this town was giving amnesty for existing in-law apts. And you had six months to submit. They were still not allowing new but you could get your existing deemed legal.
So my customer went to the inspector to ask about her project and he said no they were still not allowing new, even though this was for there own use. So my quick thinking customer said "well then if we go ahead and do this without a permit I suppose we could come back and you will have to give us amnesty." She walked out with a permit.
"Someone please tell me what collar ties do on a tarditional framed roof with ceiling joists. I've had some inspectors ask for collar ties butted up to the ridge. What the heck do those do!!"
This is one of those perenial favorites that come up here again every few months. The southern building codes require collar ties in the upper third of the rafter. The purpose is to prevent the roof from blowing apart at the ridge in an uplift wind condition such as can happen in a hurricane or tornado. The intense low pressure can theoretically make it open at the ridge and hinge at the wall junction, The collar ties hold it together.
The misunderstanding is that rafter ties in the lower third of the roof rafter are a different creature. They prevent spreading, while collar ties prevent lifting. The inspectors are right on this one. When the code requires it, the inspectors are serving the public well to enforce it. One of the biggest causes of death and destruction in those wind storms is from roof parts flying around the countryside.
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I'm in Northern VA. Look in the code book-we have the most benign building climate in the country. Winds under 70 mph, minimal snow load, moderate rain, moderate termite infestation. The biggest danger we have here is people driving their SUV's into the wall between the two or three garage doors.<G>
Got a double whammy uplift in Florida. I think it has to do with the plans examiners requirements and not strictly required by code but even when the engineer specs only the collar ties on the plans the examiner adds - with his RED pen - metal strapping over the ridge on each rafter set.
My roofs will set down intact even if the building is blown out from underneath.
Straps, Yes.
I'm not saying there aren't alternate approved ways to meet the same requirements, but I am expalining that there is a purpose other than inspectors whims for having collar ties
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One of the things taught when we turn a job down is to list the code number , then the code in the letter of explanation. They can argue with the code all they want if they want to have a one sided conversation.
That would just about explain collar ties in the Southern Building Code .
Tim Mooney
Like with Dorothy in Oz?
Glad I'm not in Kansas.
My story- we have a utility that for convoluted reasons wanted to prevent people from tying into their water and sewer. It had to do with that they bought water / sold the sewage with other utilities, and their infrastructure was almost entirely developer financed. They developed a big subdivision that did not count against the money they would have to repay the developers and is a cash cow (700 lots x average non-metered water bill of $100, 3 employees at the utility). Anyone else who tied in would mean they would have to pay the recoupment . So they sought to stop it by specs/inspections.
Lift stations: every part was sole-sourced and came from weird parts of the country, like hand-formed terne for the roof of the building. Which was necessary to house the massive generator, fed by an underground fuel tank that would power the generator six months uninterrupted. And the back-up generator! if the primary went dead. After all was said and built, you had to post a 100% cash bond to guarantee the lift station. Two were built because the lots were worth so much - ritzy part of town that doesn't allow much development in the village proper.
Their inspector was a lip-stick lesbian who wore high heels to job sites. Most of you guys work in warm, cushy and posh environments (wood subfloors:) but ours is mud work. Some of hers: We set and excavated a 30' deep gravity manhole that was slated for future development. She made us backfill with #8 stone instead of clay - which sucks to dig back out and cost $$$. She made a guy down the road, a shell station, rip out his sanitary lat 4 times for a different material - all installed at her direction - and settled on ductile iron, special interior coating (custom), with custom made nitrile gaskets from an outfit in Texas (concerns from underground fuel tanks leaking at a BRAND new gas station). She's now in Arizona I understand - so Elizabeth if you read this, your former employer is shortly going to prison. And you might be too. Eat s***.
remodeler
I am a bit inland in CT and we just don't get those winds. Sure we get huricanes but never devastating winds once they make landfall. I think what bugs me is when you ask why and you get a shrug and are told it's in the code. I don't mind being educated by an inspector, in fact I welcome it.
Yeah, oh well
shrug
LOL
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Under stupid sayings -
"Because I said so"
I got out the code book and showed him where I was right.
notice that I didn't show him where he was wrong
because if I had done that, I could have nbeen right all day long and still lost my case.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Gotta have an outlet within 24" of each side of the kitchen sink. There's no wall within reach above the counter, only glass. On one side of the sink is a dw, 24" wide, hardly unusual. Inspector said I had to mount a recep there somewhere. On the window? No.
"OK, I'll pull the dw and stick one in the hole."
"But I don't want you to have to do without a dw."
"No chance of that. You'll be gone soon."
Compromise was placement in the false front area which at the time didn't yet have a tip out tray. Outlet lasted exactly one day. Final inspection was finished and I could then make the house the way it should be. That was one of 6 items.
Her supervisor, on my next house, agreed to do all my inspections so as not to confuse them with non-standard construction. Hit a monster rock excavating, moved the house 4 times one afternoon, and gave up. What to do for a footing under the wall that had to run over the rock? Inspector asked what I thought. Told him I'd like to set rebar in the rock and pour the wall just like the rock was a footing. Worked for him.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I built a house that was all on ledge rock. We cleaned off the rock ,formed the footings,washed it clean, drilled about a bazillion holes in it, epoxey in re bar pins , and called for inspection.
The assistant inspector showed up and said we needed to cover the ledge with gravel before pouring.?
I said OK, as soon as he left I called the head inspector. He came out, looked it over ,and apologized for his assistants lack of knowledge.
Hmm, best and worst. Pretty easy to recall.
Best - guy walks in, looks around, gets a look on his face I immediately don't like. He's thinking. That can't be good. Asks who framed it. I did. Why, what's jacked. Nothin, he says. Wish everyone framed like this.
Worst. I'm not a big fan of leaving the prints in the middle of the work area. I've got a box in the truck for paperwork. Inspector shows up, I pull them out, we're all happy. That saves the signed copy from getting lost, torn, stepped on, etc. I saw an electricians apprentice once take it off the wall since it was in his way and pitch it in the trash. Anyways. Recently, inspector shows while I'm at lunch. I get a call and a butt chewing and a lecture about how I should know better. "Where's my plans??" Miffed me big time. This was not a big project. You could walk in, assume everything, and be 99% right without looking at plans. Anyway. He was just a bonehead that day.
I don't know that I've ever really learned anything useful from an inspector. Most of the time the stuff I learn is oh we'd really rather have a detail drawn this way or the shared wall detail has changed . . . again . . . no we can't be more specific, build one and we'll tell you if it's right or not. I'm not a huge part of the cheerleading section.
"The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb " lyrics by Roger Waters
Peak brace on dutch hipped trusses- the whole gable was only about 7' tall and the hip came up 3.5', but yet Larryboy wanted to see a brace from the peak tied in to the rat-run 3 trusses back. Great punch list day.
I think it depends on what type inspector the city is willing to pay for and then you see the result spent.
You get what you pay for. If the budget is only 20,000, thats what you are going to get on your job.
Tim Mooney
You get what you pay for. If the budget is only 20,000, thats what you are going to get on your job.
Maybe. Teachers have been making that same argument forever. Doesn't always work out. In my own small way, I've seen the same thing (as the teacher example).PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Well . Lets be simple about a point here .
Lets say a builder makes 100,000. If they hired the best bhuilder they could find to inspect at 100,000 per year they could have cream of the crop picks. Add full insurance , a truck and a gas card of course.
Or hire a kid out of high school for 20,000.
Of course there is a road to pick in the middle somewhere too.
Point is there are differences of what you get for the amount of money.
Would you work for 20,000 ? Our city police start at that and put their life on the line Im told.
Tim Mooney
The problem is, they usually hire disgruntled, wounded, burned out tradesmen, who get a big head problem fast. I could see myself taking an inspection job after freezing my arse off for 3 months in the mud, trying to frame some monstocity, figure a nice cushy job with no hammers....then reality hits, and I figure there is no way I'm working for those wages, putting up with BS from every builder in town, and being the lap dog for the city counsel, mayor, or other governing body, who's job exists on how many permits are pulled, subject to those lay-offs etc....I wouldn't take the job for less than 75k and 5 weeks vacation, and full bennys....why go backwards?
Had a guy I know take the electrical job...got a bad attitude, started the ego turn downs...gonna clean up this city attitude...crap rolls downhill, and he turned down a major political donor......he's running wire again....and everybody he tagged flips him off and laughs everywhere he goes.
Tim...I'm sure you're totally different and the exception to the rule...and if you're not, don't tell me and blow my illusion..Okay?
Keith , its good to hear from ya .
You are already smartened up on this politic stuff . Yup, its for real . Its live as we speak. Makes me want to puke already. Im sure they all want an exellent job done cheap, with no complaints from the public. No waves please.
The respect or scared or what ever you want to call it a cop gets from the public an inspector gets too. People do try to please me while all my life no one cared. Big switch. I can see where that could go to some ones head and I think to a small amount it does anyway in some way. The inspector Im replacing is a good one , but he will stay there till he finds somthing I believe to show his skill, or maybe its in his head as you say.
How did I feel about it ? It felt nice to be quite truthful, but it should be treated with respect on my part to earn it . I hope I never misuse it , or it will be time to give it up and pack it in.
Tim Mooney
My most memorable is of a final electrical with a new inspector be/c the old one got cancer. Get to the kitchen where we've created outlets that are kinda formed into the solid surface counter, but at an angle. Inspector gets his first look, thinks a sec, and says, "Wow, we oughta patent that!"
I've had some interesting interactions with inspectors.
One that comes to mind was about a gable truss. The gable was only about 20' long, and had a bearing wall beneath the whole thing. The framer had cut out the kingpost to put in a gable vent. The inspector insisted on having an engineer review the modifications, since you can't cut a truss.
Another was on a big commercial building. There was a big girder truss hanging on another big girder trus. But one of the girders was installed backwards. The inspector caught it. The framer called me and asked if the girder could be repaired so they didn't have to flip it around.
I sent the info to an engineer, who said it was virtually impossible due to the large size of the load carried. I relayed this back to the framer, and told him the girder had to be removed and flipped around. The framer told the inspector the girder couldn't be repaired. The inspector said O.K., don't worry about it.
..
I have had inspectors catch framers trying to slip stuff by them. One guy decided to clear span a beam that was supposed to have center bearing. Other have cut trusses for skylights and attic stairs. Some have used the wrong hangers.
Since we can't possibly inspect every job, the inspectors are our "eyes in the field". I've really had relatively few problems with them.
But then - Only about half the jobs we do are in areas where there are building codes.You're a jewel. When's the last time you had a good buffing?
When i started this thread I wasn't thinking about problems with inspectors, more on the lighthearted side with some of the crazy things that come out of their mouths.
The reverse holds true also, I'm sure I've had my share of crazy, stupid, not thought out ideas over the years. Luckily not too many people hear about them since I work alone.
Well, I thought the 2 stories I told were pretty funny.
On one hand, you have a "by the book" moron who wants an engineer to review a cut piece on a 20' gable that sits on a bearing wall.
On the other extreme, you have an inspector blowing off a 60' girder carrying 12,000# that is installed backwards. Can't imagine what the guy was thinking.
Maybe it was one of those things where ya had to be there...It's as bad as you think, and they are out to get you.
After last night I wish there were more building inspectors who stake out HD, Lowes, etc to follow the well inteded diyer home. When I'm not glued to my computer here at FHB I spend some time as a volunteer firefighter. Last night we had a mutual aid call to assist the rescue squad. A woman took a fall in the second story bathroom of her house and couldn't feel her legs. So why call the FD? The two member ambulance crew couldn't figure out how to get the woman out. The house had been devestated with good intentions, like enlarging bedrooms and shrinking hallways. Right angles that you couldn't get a piece of furniture through, and a staircase so steep that I had to wear a harness with two other firefighters literally lowering me down the stairs as I carried my end of the stretcher. (I didn't mention that the steps were different heights and widths). There were no other means of egress from the bathroom. It took about an hour to wiggle a backboard through the hall, around tight turns, down the stairs, sharp right at the bottom, then immediate left out the front door. The place was more akin to a maze than anything else.
We notified the building inspector this morning. I cannot imagine having to do a search and rescue/recovery in such a building.
JK
I too think that inspectors are, in a lot of locations, vastly undervalued. Sure they make mistakes.
Sometimes the 'mistake' is not what some may think. BossHog's inspector calling for an engineers review is usually their way and is safest method from several perspectives. Inspectors are warned not to assume they are engineers. In all but the most trivial of cases inspectors will call for an engineers approval on any modifications to trusses not documented in the plans. This assures that the engineers know about the field modifications and gets the inspector out of a judgment call that he, or she, might not be qualified to make.
In a similar case, an injured person in a spot too narrow to extricate them from in a timely manner the local fire department chainsawed out a wall and used a ladder truck to crane them out. Quick but dirty.
I was in the local Home Despot when a man passed me on the way out. He had plumbing fittings for installing a new service and sub panel. The wrong sized aluminum wiring and no anti-oxidant in sight. When I commented that it looked like he was going to do a big electrical job he complained that the 'damned electricians wanted $1200 for the job'. Further he claimed 'Any fool could put this stuff in in a couple of hours'. I smiled and moved on.
Wish there was an inspector ready to follow him home. At least he could have returned the equipment and got most of his money back. I was tempted to get his address so I could drive by and enjoy the games. I'm not sure how the utility would take a butchered job I think they got. Usually they won't connect to a service that has not been signed off by the inspector and he won't touch them unless there is a contractor or other qualified people willing to sign off on it.
Inspectors are not perfect. They make some silly calls. Had to 'ground' hose bib 6' from a service even though the bib was screwed onto a plastic piping system. Took another ten minutes and another $10 in materials. No biggy.
I can say that generally speaking inspection departments become more professional and knowledgeable over time. A lot of them start as people out of their depth but become quite good as they do more research, see more jobs, and get involved with their various professional organizations. Most of the ones I have met are generally good folks tryingto do an important job well.
> I wish there were more building inspectors who stake out HD, Lowes, etc to follow the well inteded diyer home.
I had a similar idea. My suggestion is that the box stores should have permit applications and the various info sheets from B&S, like the type V sheet. Here in LA, you are required to have a permit and inspection to replace an existing water heater. That's a good thing especially here in earthquake country. It would probably be much better enforced if the info and application came with the w/h.
If the box operators were recalcitrant about that, they could be treated like the city treats "head shops" that sell drug paraphenalia. ;-)
-- J.S.