Doing some electrical for the kitchen and dining room today. I dropped 8 circuits through the floor (subpanel is upstairs) and ran them in the V formed by the web of the floor trusses. I protected the wires from those sharp plates using tube insulation for pipes.
Question is – For some length (over 2′) I have 6 wires laying down in that V. they actually lay on the truss plates so it’s about a 3″ wide channel. Then they start branching out and running down the trusses to where they need to go. The wires are not cable tied or anything, just laying there — is this considered bundling? It’s no big deal if I have to go up and put some staples in to separate them. These are all #12 romex.
Also, is stapling two romex wires together ok? Does it require derating the wires? I thought I had seen that done before, but then I know I see these clips at Lowes called “code saver” or some stuff like that. This is an inspected job so I’m questioning anything I can think of.
I looked for the NEC online, but it seems they want to rip you for $75 to get it. You’d think this information would be freely available. Anybody know a source would be great.
MERC.
Replies
You can get Code Check for I think about $15.
And lot of it is free online at http://www.codecheck.com/pg00cover.htm
But I don't think that they cover this.
But what you discribe is bundling that would require derating.
You can also download a PDF files for IRC2000 which include a sub-set of the NEC appropriate for home wiring.
The server is busy now, but go to http://www.broderbund.com/ then 3D ARchitect. I think that it is under technical support.
If you are talking about cable stacker then that is exaclty what you need.
http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop/item/30210/icn/20-265397/3m/49554.htm
Now that the version that I used would handle upto 8 #14 cables or 4 #12. I don't think that it was the size of the cables, but the heat that limited the fewer number of #12.
Interesting installation here.
http://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001622.html
I like those pictures. I had dug that up last night while googling for some NEC stuff.
Me thinks I'll tidy up my wires and get some cable stackers. Shouldn't require repulling anything, just yanking some staples and resetting in the stackers.
Thanks! MERC
Cleaned up the wiring a bit. Made some brackets with holes for cable ties that keeps the wiring from being bundled. Also put in some of the stackers. They were on the bottom shelf at Lowe's, no wonder I missed them. I usually peruse the stuff at Lowes because once I understand what is sold, I generally understand how it is done.
The third picture shows where I had an indoor and outdoor box close to each other. I ran the wires behing the outdoor box which puts them to close to the edge of the stud. Should I redo those somehow (how?) or should I just protect with a metal plate?
MERC
Merc - the photos look great. The only change I would make, if the box going through the OSB is on the outside, I would use a metal box.
The reason you don't bundle wires together is heat build up. The wires need room to breath. Covering them with insulation would make the heat build up worse.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
I knew bundling wires caused heat build up. My logical side told me that 6 wires running in the trusses in conditioned space isn't a problem. Then my past experience with inspectors being tight butted led me to just "unbundle" them. They look nicer too.
I used a plastic box so I could have an adjustable box. We haven't decided on exterior finish material yet. So is the life of a live-in project!
It's not against code to have plastic outside right?
MERC.
Not sure on the code.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
i see some potential problems and code violations
stapling the cables to the sheathing?, whats going to happen when the outside finish is nailed on?, wires must be stapled to the sides of the studs
stapling a wire to the front of a stud?, directly behind the drywall? wires must go through the stud near the center
wires stapled behind a box?, why not loop the wire around the side of the box, well away from errant drywall screwscaulking is not a piece of trim
One of the nice things about those stackers is that they have some "give", so even if a nail or screw hits a wire the wire will likely be pushed out of the way rather than punctured.
They also allow you to do things a little more "wire as you go", without having to think too far ahead about precisely how many wires will pass by a given spot and how to space them out appropriately.
Also, for folks like myself who can't seem to ever get the hammer to hit the nail head, the spacers avoid damage to the wires during stapling.