About once a year, during very rainy and windy storms, my client gets about a cup of water leaking through a recessed can light fixture in their dinning room. I’ve pulled the can and see no evidence of water on the dust in the joist bay, no discoloration or mold, NOTHING! I’ve resided the adjacent wall and re-roofed the adjacent bay window area where the joists terminate. We found no rust stains on the sheathing and added to our Tyvek overlap. The roof sheathing looked good too. We added larger flashings and were very careful.
There is a bird block ventilation at the end of the same joist bay, but it is blocked by wall framing plywood before it gets to the light area. I’m wondering if there is some pressure differation or condensation issue to consider. Any ideas?
Replies
How's access to this part of the attic? We just had a good rain last night, and first thing I got up in the attic to try to catch a leak in the act. With a really mysterious leak, looking while it's actually happening may help.
-- J.S.
The leak is on the main floor with no evidence of water in the attic, which has good access or in the room above. Plus, it's so random, due to the nature of the storm type that it's hard to predict. I did ask them to call me right away next time. Thanks for the help.
The problem still occurs, even after the roof rework? Is this the only can in the ceiling or the only can of several that leaks? Is the water accumulation from a steady collectible drip or do you extrapolate the amount from evidence of spray on the floor or dining room table? Is the ceiling penetration for the can sealed - the can, too? Is there a fireplace that could be contributing to the possible formation of low interior pressure as the high wind whistles over the top creating a venturi action, pulling moisture laden air into the attic and through that unsealed can? Have your clients been dissin' the wee folks lately?<G>
try what i used to do as a last resort many years ago when i was roofing my way thru high school and college- have someone haul a hose up on the roof and start blasting any and all places that are even remotely suspicious or possible. do one spot at a time for about five minutes or so- sometimes it can take a little while for the water to seep thru. also, keep in mind that where it comes thru into the living space can be surprisingly far away from the actual leak. since it's coming thru a light fixture, be especially careful checking its feed cable.
without more specific info on the layout they've got, etc. i'm afraid i can't be more helpful. good luck- i know these can be very frustrating.
m
Thanks for the idea, we have not tried that yet.
My folks used to have a leak in the kitchen ceiling of 1 1/2 story house. It was under the side wall attic space. It would only leak about once every 2 years when the wind was just right. They caulked and patch and final replaced the roof and still have the same problem.
One time my step-father was up in the attic and happen to see a glint of light. There was a pin head size hole in the vent pipe jack. Caulked that and never had another problem.
That's a good ide. We should look for a leak that may follow the plumbing down. Thanks
We have discussed the wee folks as an option! This room is on the main floor of a two story house. It's a low voltage mini can with another can nearby but in a different joist bay. Using mirrors and a borescope we could see that there was no evidence of water above or around the light. We have considered the condensation issue as a possible source. There is a fireplace in the adjacent room. We could feel a slight draft when we took the can out. The amount of water is usually consistant, about a cup or a little more in a short period, not more than an hour. Thanks for your help,
Time to experiment. Get the trouble light in the attic and the sprinkler on the roof. Let it run for a few hours. Then it's just a matter of spotting the water and tracing it back. Given the present season you might want to wait until warm weather if your not into ice sculpture. On the other hand it can be festive.
I have heard that strategically placed stripes of cheap markers, water based, or poster paint can give you clues. The stripes in different colors wash down in dripping water and leave tracks and color the water at the destination giving you valuable clues as to the direction to the leak or source.
just an anecdote - a few years ago I added a second story with steeply pitched cedar shingle roof over large house in the Bay Area. A month or so after the owners had moved back in, we had a hugemungous rain storm that lasted several days. The owners were out of town for a few weeks, and I was just checking up on things after the storm. As I was walking through the formal dining room, I thought I saw a little water drip out of the corner of my eye. I walked over to the new dining table (the owner had recently told me she'd spent more than $25,000 for the table and a couple thousand more to have it shipped from England, not to mention the oriental carpet under it). There was a large crystal bowl in the center of the table with dried (soggy) flowers and about a half-gallon of water in it. I watched for a few minutes and saw another drop - coming from the chandelier over the table, drop into the bowl. I rushed up into the attic, and after about an hour, located a tiny rivulet of water running down from a ridge post in the center of the roof. After I spotted this, it was a fairly simple matter of an impassioned call to my roofer to fix the problem. I looked for quite awhile, but could find no apparent damage from the leak. The water was apparently travelling down the bearing members, through the second floor, exiting though the fixture box mounted on the bottom of a beam over the DR, running down the mounting chain and eventually dripping off the single crystal at the bottom of the chandelier and into the bowl. I have to think someone up there was really looking out for me on that rainy afternoon.
Did I tell the owners about this?
I'll bet you did, AFTER it was fixed for sure! I had a similar thing happen in my parents home where the water from a broken toilet above the piano had circled it 360' but not a drop on the piano! Thanks for the help.
I once saw a situation where a leak was above a junction box, the romex outer sheath acted as a water pipe with the lowest box the exit for the water. Y0u could check that possiility and the routing of the lighting circuit.
this is all your fault- just this morning i'm talking with my wife as she's dusting in our front entrance way- she reaches up to do the ceiling fixture and right next to it there's a new water stain! however, i think mine is going to be easier to troubleshoot. i walked out the front door, turned around and saw where some dumb a s s had parked a 4" vent stack about 6" directly off the end of a dormer valley! gee, why didn't he just put a funnel right into it? and of course the neoprene flashing collar is shot, so after the usual trip to home depot guess where i'll be tomorrow? it's only your basic cape cod with the obligatory 12/12 pitch- oh what fun!
we moved into this house about eight months ago- previous owner was/is a custom builder. all the neighbors rave about what great work he does. i've done nothing but fix problems since day one- nothing major, the house is pretty solid overall- but one little glitch after another. a case of the cobbler's shoes?
as i commented to an equally adept friend awhile back, i'm pretty proud of my ability to fix almost anything, but i could be just as proud with half as many opportunities to prove it.
m
Sorry for the trouble, I'll keep my other questions until another day!
oh well- it seems to have worked. it's been pouring here since 2:00 this morning and no more sign of a leak.
merry xmas!
m
Thanks, same to you and many more!
I've worked on two leaks where water was getting into a light fixture junction box by travelling along the conduit, no signs of water coming in anywhere else, both were solved by caulking around the conduit where it entered the wall (school facilities)
Jen
"Whatever works" "Hit the NAIL!"
Thanks, I'm interested in trying all ideas at this point!
You ought to submit that story to Great Moments in Building History....sitting in his nowhereland.
Great idea. We takled about dyes and never though of watercolors. although on the very same dining room table were several watercolor works just completed by the owners children! Thanks for the help.