A general question; I’ve hired one carpenter with twenty years of experience after he worked with me for a day. Since then (2 weeks) he’s continued to live up to his claimed experience…but he wasn’t cheap. I come from the cabinetmaker, furniture/shop experience level so my clients are typically higher-end, finish carpentry work.
However, our business is expanding to include general exterior work and I need another general carpenter. What is the going rate range for such in the Pittsburgh, PA area?
Replies
I'm a little further east and a little bit more rural and I see $35 - $50/hr. In urban area it is probably higher.
I'm in NJ, and the range is $70 -90/ hr.
was that $35-$50/hr. actual pay to employee or billing rate to client?
k
edit- or 70-90, is this an employee, or an independent contractor?
Edited 3/29/2008 7:33 pm ET by KFC
That's independent cont. and or billed client. Employee gets $15- 20. WE live in a bubble or outside the bubble depending on how you look at it. You should see the price the price of real estate. I have a seven unit apt, building w/ warehouse and 10 space parking lot for 89K.
with real estate at that price, I just can't imagine that it could be feasable to build something new...
They still call your area (Williamsport)"vacuum valley"?
I'm influx myself so I never heard that phrase used on this area but a couple of years ago I could see it. Things are changing fo sure.
I was wondering the same thing. Seems pretty high, even for NYC. I know a good finish carpenter around here, (with a license), is $55/hr. I figured that's tops for the nation. Of course, that's working as an employee for another general, not dealing directly with the clientele.
A few years ago, I was in Pittsburgh before moving here permanently and a carpenter I knew then quoted me $25-35.
Just purchased desiel 3.99.9 a gallon and lunch for 7.00, but I am not a carpenter.
Check with Jeff Buck, he's in the Pitt. area.
are you talking his hourly pay, or your billing rates?
and for an employee, right? not sub.
a decent carp would be $15-18/hr.
an experienced, tooled up carp $18- $20/hr
lead carp $20-$25/hr.
billed at $40, $45, or $50/hr.
there are tons of guys asked for and getting less ...
but I'm only talking guys worth while.
"...but he wasn't cheap. "
I recently sub's myself to a new GC. Cut my sub rates to $250/day 'cause I knew his next coupla projects didn't have too much built into them labor wise. And all I heard was "you're not cheap ... and you're the most expensive guy I every paid".
In the end ... after one job ... relationship wasn't working ... so I fired myself.
money was just one of the issues ... he did pay though. Gotta give him that.
but our last conversation he said he was going back to the $100 /day guys that had left him high and dry all of the last coupla years.
if you ever need a good sub drop me a line ...
not gonna be the cheapest ... but I like to think I'm a good value.
and if U ever need a good project manager I got a buddy that's looking at back surgery then never wearing a tool belt again. Smartest carpenter I know.
he'll do just fine working with his brains instead of his back.
any other Q's I'm always open to email.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Ok, I wasn't the only one who interpreted the original question as being about hiring an employee, and employee carpenters aren't making 35-90 an hour in pa. I was about to rent a u-haul and head back east...
k
hell ...
I live here and was gonna move back!
and no carp sub's are making $90 in the Pittsburgh area.
I fight tooth and nail to get a steady $300/day. ($37.50/hr)
when I bill myself direct to the customer,as the GC, I shoot for $45 - $50/hr.
the majority of GC's around here won't approach billing at $50 /man hour.
I'd say "average" rate for a sub carpenter is $25/hr.
for years, I've been interviewing and stating my rates. Usually work one or two jobs ... then I'm "too expensive, nice work ... but cost too much".
then ... we end things nicely ... and I keep in touch. Drop the occasional email. Half the time ... sometimes 2 and 3 years later ... I'm called back after they run thru the "$100 / day guys" ... then knock out a coupla projects ... everyone's happy ...
then I'm too expensive all over again and we start the cycle over.
I don't mind being called too expensive ... I take it as a compliment.
no one's said "overpriced" yet ... so I'm happy with that.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
The funny thing is, the cheap guys cost more when all is said and done.
k
And for all I know, the guy was asking about billing rates. I get confused a lot.
k
KFC,
I'm hiring, and can figure my own billing rate--just needed the base wage rate range. From what I've read, I'm high but it involves a little more in that he's swung business my way and we kinda collaborative in that regard.
Going forward, I'm hiring another and that carp needs to be on average.
thx,
Pascanale
Unless it's killing your margin it's probably good to be on the high side, I think.
k
You'll get a kick out of this then....
http://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/trd/621544300.html
He's looking for "the best" frame to finish carp. MUST have MA Construction Supervisor's Licence and experience in "every aspect of remodeling and construction business". For $17/hr. View Image
Yea - I've seen adds like that before in the paper. I'd be looking for a superintendent job though. They will advertise for someone who basically does all aspects of what a builder does - locate and develop building lots, develop plans, sell jobs, write contracts, do budgets, work with customers on the particulars for their build, do all the administrative work like plot plans, permits, takeoffs, material selection and material orders, inspections, etc, solicit bids, hire subs, process billing, do punchwork etc, etc, etc and then want to pay $20 or $25 an hr plus maybe some kind of bonus program. I guess theses builder just want their job to be getting loans and collecting profits.... Granted, there is a lot of risk involved. BTW - a lot of the previous is my job description...
BTW - in the link you posted I like the "This is an internship job ". which makes it sound like he wants someone who already knows it all but who will accept "internship" pay.
To all - my notes on carpenter's pay agree with Jeff Bucks notes. Of course it is all highly geographic. For example, I guess anyone who is below 6 figures and works in NYC is on the edge of poverty...
Edited 3/30/2008 1:01 pm ET by Matt
Jeff,
You're right on the mark. I am talking employee and he is pretty much lead carpenter quality, completely tooled and ready to go. We've worked together now 3 weeks and both are happy. And, he's getting the high end of what everybody's mentioned.
My question was based more upon needing a second carpenter and not needing another at the same grade. So, I wanted to be fair but in line with area wages.
BTW, happen to know George Reed? Your name is familiar. And I'll definitely keep you in mind.
Thanks for the details.
Pascanale
Another elequent way of saying you get what you pay for!
Bravo
Have a good day
Cliffy
hey ...
who know'd I had it in me?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Why do you even think in the term "CHEAP". What the hell do you want? Let's see, 20 yrs on the job most likely has all his own tools, shows up for work, is presentable, and you can leave him alone with just instructions for what you want done. Priceless. He's got the same basic overhead as we all do, food shelter clothing transportation etc, etc. I don't care where you live, lifes expensive. What do you pay a plumber, elec., yea I know they have a license, but so does a hair styleist. The guy building the box (envelope) doesn't get ANYWHERE near enough credit. Here in No. Westchester Co. NY a plumber & helper $l30 and up per hr. same for the elec. Mechanic $85 & up & 6 mos. later you have to bring the vehicle back for more service. The carpentry can last almost forever (depending). I basically get $60 per hr for my service which can run the gamut of household needs, a quality client base realizes this is more than fair. If you are doing well it's most likely do to you, and the folks that work for you , treat people right, charge what the market bares and share the wealth. Don't get me started on what a non-english speaking laborer is paid here.. minimum $l00 per day.
Hey, never used the word "cheap" in the derogatory sense. And, according to all the replies, I'm paying him at the top of the range--and we're both happy. However, the second hire (and I'm talking employee labor rate, not billed to the client) will not be that level (lead carpenter) nor do I want or need another at that level. So, that's where the question came from. And it does matter a lot where you're working/living.
He's got the same basic overhead as we all do, food shelter clothing transportation etc, etc.
Pel, you mention the above as if it's a cost of doing business. A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/