Hi Guys,
I am currently renovating one half of a two story semi-detached house built in Toronto in the 1920’s. The first story is solid brick while the second story is frame construction with 7/8″ solid wood sheathing, covered with tar paper and siding of cedar shingles. On top of the cedar shingles is a layer ashphalt / low density fiberboard shingles known around here as “insul-brick” because it has some minor insulting capacity and is made to “look” like brick.
My problem is the insul-brick is in very poor shape and must be replaced. The options that occur to me are:
1) secure the insul brick where loose and apply vinyl siding right over top. This is possibly the easiest option and it preserves the insulating value of the insul-brick.
2) rip off the insul-brick and see if the cedar shingles are still serviceable. Where they are currently exposed they appear to be alright but I wonder about all of the nail holes left behind from the insul-brick. Do they need to be filled with anything and if so, what? Is a water repellant coating a good idea? I also wonder about techniques for replacing single bad shingles that may be uncovered. Is there a way to replace individual shingles if need be?
Also, any thoughts about wind infiltration with either option? Should I wrap the building if I go with option 1? Will I have an unmanageable problem with wind infiltration if I go with option 2 (and therefore unable to apply building wrap)?
This is my first posting so I apologize if the question is too rambling. Any thoughts on this topic are welcome.
Paul Kalbun
Replies
Hiya Paul- In a situation like this time, money, the amount of labor and quality of the desired end usually dictate the answer. All scenarios are possible and have been done. Perhaps best is to strip it down to the sheathing, cellulose insulation if needed, paper or tyvex then cement board.
As you mentioned easy way slap the vinyl, the notorious quick fix. Works tho'. But problems with the water migrating to the nasty insulbrick to act as sponge and not as easily dried out as it is now. Could wrap tyvex over the insulbrick as a rain vent, furring strips then the vinyl.
If bulk of cedar shingles are in good shape seeing they were covered, the option of exposing the cedar shingles is available. I wouldn't sweat the nail holes unless they penetrated thru the sheathing. If so then I wouldn't deem the shingles as a valid possibility unless you're willing to fill and paint. Maintenance headaches. Laborious. You want painted shingles? Could you see the filled nail holes with a transparent stain? Did the insulbrick nails penetrate the tar paper leading to greater air infiltration- a great concern for expensive heat loss and comfort. Just my two bits. More experienced posters are sure to follow. Welcome to Breaktime. Glad you're here.
Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
Forget the primal scream, just Roar!
rez,
Thanks for the input. I pulled most of the insulbrick off one side today and was very happy to find the cedar shingles in very good shape - maybe one small patch to replace. I also found a slate stripper at my favourite roofing supply store for pulling the nails out of the shingles, so I think I am on my way.
Thanks again
Paul
Best fix is to strip to sheathing,re-flash top of brick, re-paper and re-shingle.(do not use tyvec - ever! unless you live in an extremely dry climate the stuff should be banned !) I've run into everything in old so old tyvec walls: soggy insulation, mold, rotten studs, rotten sill plates, bugs - lots of bugs...
Wind infiltration is okay, its healthy and a good paper and shingle job will let the wall breathe, not blow.
In my opinion nothing breathes or resists water better than a cedar shingle and tar paper wall. Ever wonder why those old houses lasted 200+ years?
sometimes board sometimes knot
I'm with you as far as TYVEK is concerned. I am in the process of replacing 35% of the clapboard siding on a 5 year old farmhouse as the moisture caught between the TYVEK and the siding had nowhere to go. I am going to use felt paper and back prime the new clapboards, hopefully for a better result for the HO. Although, what the heck do I know, I usually work inside doing finish work, not outside.
Jeff
Sounds like a good project. One thought that ought to have you conjuring up problems and solutions is kind of a Zen thing. Think like a rain drop.
Either gravity is running it down the wall or wind is driving it at 70 MPH into the side of the house. Rain is where the most damage happens. Rot, Mold, and all of the nasty things you are thinking of are caused by water.
Start at the bottom and make sure the water has a way to leak out and down. Holes & cracks happen but the path needs to be made for it to leak out and down.
Replacement shingles will be great to deal with problem areas. The thought about caulk is that you seal window frames and openings but be careful not to create pockets for water to accumulate leak & freeze.
Look at your in wall insulation. Pop a hole near the top of the wall (2" hole saw)and check it out before you do too much replacing of the shingles. If the insulation has settled you probably want to sneak in some more blown in if that is what was in there. I suspect someone was more concerned with cold infiltration than they were with appearance. A 1920 home probably has the rockwool or asbestos insulation blown in the walls, or maybe nothing in insulation. Don't freak about it. Just move slowly and put some cellulose or fiberglass loose fill in on top of the load.
Being that this house was built in 1920 you might have 2x4's that reach from the main floor to the eaves in the walls. That leaves lots of room for blown in insulation to settle. Write back if there isn't any insulation. old homes have quite a few tricks that are worth asking about.
After that replace the removed & decayed shingles and make the old girl pretty again.
Getting cold yet?
It's not cold yet but it is coming. That reminds me, I need to get the cast iron radiators out for powder coating so I can get some heat going soon.
I have the thing stripped down to the studs inside and only found some blown in cellulose over the master bedroom - everything else is wide open so fiberglass batts from the inside is how I plan to go.
Man, didn't know you had it all opened up. New perspective.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
Forget the primal scream, just Roar!
Sounds colder than a mother-in-law's kiss. Insulation is high on my list of things to do. That before radiators. Wow! You da man after this project!