Is this something worth pursuing or is it check to write for paper certification.
Just looking for info and general thoughts on the subject?
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
A standardized approach, quick-to-install hardware, and a simplified design make building custom casework cost-effective.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
Cag,
I thought you were going to college so you wouldn't have to do that kind of work?
Jon
Jon,
Going to college for a very expensive paper certificate lol
College is a'just because you should have a degree these days kind of thing.
I like remodeling more then sitting behind a desk, will probably stick with it for a while, hang my own shingle out eventually.
NeilView ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
CAG,
I like remodeling too, which is why I bought the house that I did. It really is working for yourself in the truest sense. But other than family and friends, I don't think I would consider doing it as a way to make money. Not when there are other ways that pay better and have a lot less stress.
I guess I see where you are coming from with the certificate thing, as a way to differentiate your self from the hacks. The problem I think, is that most people who look for remodeling contractors are only willing to pay a small premium for someone really good. They refuse to believe the cost of doing it right can be triple what the hack is telling them it can be done for. If you are dead set on going that career route, I think you would serve yourself more by learning sales and marketing skills (not taught at school), as well as perfecting a business model that incorporates a lot of what Daniel Morrison says in the current FHB issue #155 (pgs.18-24). That alone goes a long way.
Jon
Actually, sales and marketing is part of the course work for certified remodelor.
There is always a world of difference between classroom and practical application but this cerification trys to bridge the gap and add integrity and professionalism to this part of the building industry. There was a time when home improvement contractors were on a par with politicians and used car salesmen in the eys of the public.
I don't need it personally but I imagine that it would have value for CAG.
Excellence is its own reward!
I don't need it personally but I imagine that it would have value for CAG
How should I take that one lol?View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
You are just starting out .
I'm already one of the two "go-to guys" in my area.
Rep supercedes the letters unless I wanted to move..
Excellence is its own reward!
I knew what you meant, just giving you a hard time, you should be accustomed to that by now shouldn't ya :)View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
Something tells me that I'd have fun working wioth you - but my eyes might get worn out giving you the old :Rolleyes
:-D .
Excellence is its own reward!
Yeah, probably could be fun, I could learn a lot at any rate...
View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
Im all for it . Im in your cheering section . Pif and I are old farts . Theres a new world being born out there every day and you younger guys are doing it . When I was your age I would have never considered me knowing squat about a puter , or exactly what one would do.
Tim Mooney
Cool I got a cheerleading section, just don't go doing me any favors and wearing short skirts for me :)
Seriously, thanks for the words of encouragment, going to wait until school is out, got enough reading and studying now, but sounds like something decent.
"There was a time when home improvement contractors were on a par with politicians and used car salesmen in the eys of the public."
Given that they [remodeling "contractors"] typically rank in the top five (#1?) with respect to consumer complaints, I think that that perception not only still exists, it is in fact, still a fact. As far as that there appears to be some kind of a certification program, that is a step in the right direction, but it is no replacement for a well executed business plan.
If CAG is serious about wanting to make a living at doing this...I'd try to talk him out of it first, as there are many far easier ways to make a living. After that, steer him towards high end work, where the client is impressed with, and cares about, and is willing to pay for all the little stuff that can differentiate the run of the mill remodeler from the successful one.
Jon
I'll agree about the targeted clientele. I do the high end wortk but it is not all fragrance and frills. These people are much more demanding at this level. And they respect those letters if you can back them up with good workmanship and professional business practices.
I'm guessing that CAG has some of the training already to qualify. I'd bet that maybe one more course plus the yearly continuing ed will keep him qualified when added to his on site experience. Mikew points out that networking is valuable. That's what we do here too. Surronding yourself with people who have a professional attitude helps you focus your mind in the right direction. It's mighty easy to let yourself get bogged down in typical construction banter.
CGR is all about setting goals and outlining a path to reach them and letting the customer know that you are qualified.
I've known too many of the ones that generate the complaints and a lot of them will be CGRs too, so you still need to differentiate yourself in the customer's mind. .
Excellence is its own reward!
Freaky your post was the same time as mine....
High dollar customers demand high dollar results and service, thats fair, I would rather work for them then people looking at the price first then expecting high quality.
I've worked on some very expensive whole house remodels, not here in kansas, and a lot of smaller jobs where I know we got the job based on price. I don't think the people who understand the cost and are willing to pay, are any more demanding then customers that look at price first. I'd rather have a lot expected of me out of someone who respects me, my time, and my talent, then some shlub who is trying to nickle and dime me to death.
View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
True, there are all types of people at each income level. One thing I would say is more true of higher income people is that they tend to shop for value more than for price. Percieved value!
Having that CGR adds to the "preception" in "precieved" value.
One of the most demanding customers i ever had was a welfare queen. It was part of her thinking to try to get something for nothing.
One of my favorite customers turns a quarter million my way every year. He has made it big by whealing and dealing so negotiating is part of the "Game" for him. Knowing that, I have to figure in something that he can win back at the table. If you have any psyche courses and motivation stuff, it can help you as a business man and as a manager..
Excellence is its own reward!
You hit it on the head in a round about sort of way,
You mentioned getting clients who are willing to pay for quality.
I have a feeling the reason a lot of people complain about remodelers is because most people look at the price first.
You pay sh!t you get sh!t, then they complain about it later. Tuff nuggys to them, if they would have been willing to do a little research into who they were hiring to rip their home apart instead of taking the lowest bid then maybe they wouldn't have anything to complain about.
I'll stop there before I really get going, I can't stand the home owner that wants the lowest price on something but the highest quality. And I don't even bid jobs.
We had a customer recently tell my boss that they thought his bid was a 300-400 high, Her and her husband came up with this figure on their own, and said if you could just take that extra money out we could have a deal.
Apparently he is somehow in the construction business. The boss handled it much better then I would have, if it would have been me I would said fine if you think you can bid my jobs better then I can the do it your self and hung up.
I'll stop my little rant now , but my point is when I go into business for myself I'm not planning on bottom feeding off the lowest bidder clients, I'm better then that and I don't need the aggravation. May sound a bit conceded though....View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
I don't know CAG, some people just expect to dicker over price...No matter what! Sometimes I've gotten business later from people that I politely declined when they tried to get my price down and some people will try, but give up on the spot when you say no.
RE: the certification. Setting aside the recommendations of the folks who've commented so far....What do YOU think it will do for you to have it?
I don't necesarily need to hear the answer, but it might help you decide for yourself.Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
Joe,
I think it will be helpful, I think I will learn from the classes, and be that much better off, and its also just a lable to put on a business card, to make myself more marketable, and appear more profesional to potential employers, and later customers of my own.
How's the house going?
View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
Edited 4/30/2003 6:33:57 PM ET by CAG
Do you have any idea of where you are going to work after you graduate?
I don't know what different class cost and I of course if you can get your boss to help pay for them the better.
But if part of the reason is to network with others in the trade and get some connection that way you should wait until you get to where you are planning on staying.
I have no idea of what is in Lead Carpenter program, but sounds like something that would be more useful for your boss to pay for and see if any of the class are the same or similar as the CR.
And I don't know if they are separate organizations over in Larryville, but in KC NARI seems to be a very strong operation. This is just based on what I see from the ads and shows that they put on.
I don't hear as much from the local HAHB since they got sued a few years ago about there "approved builder program". I don't remember the exact name, but they implied that these where builders that met strict requirements, but in fact the only requirement was to have the cash to joint the program.
The got sued by some HO after they had problems with the house they had build by the "approved builders".
BTW, since you are a KC student, a "builder", and taken at least some architecture class, I am going to bust your chops over the but ugly Studio 804 project house.
http://www.studio804.com/week_fifteena.htm
They had better (or worse if you had to look at them) picture in the KC Starless article a couple of weeks ago. But the Starless does not post picture on their website so I did not bother with it at the time.
I wonder what kind of windows that they where using that has an R-13.
Bill, I'm either going back to St Louis, where my parents used to live and I grew up, or more likely Chicago, where all the rest of my family is from.
As to that house, I knew nothing about it until yesterday when there was an article in the campus paper about some crack head who broke into it.
Funny story really, the guy breaks in and steals a cell phone, a coat and maybe a few other things, then calls one of the students working on the house and tells him.
The house is designed by the students with help from Dan Rockhill, a professor here, he's actually had a house published in FHB I think a few years ago. Uses alternative building methods for most of the stuff he builds.
Going to send you an e-mail threw here so keep an eye out for it.guess there's always next year right?
I always look at the tag at the end of the articles to see where they are from.
In the past I think that there have been several articles my KU prof. and I think some of them where more convential designs.
But I suspect that the one with the concrete tub in the last year or two was Rockhills.
Got your email and understand <G>.
concrete soaking tub?
Yeah that home was covered in class.
It was cast off site and then hauled up to place, said if he ever did it again it would be cast on site.guess there's always next year right?
I think you're right about the classes, etc. I went to trade school in the seventies and it was well worth it for the next few years, then it didn't matter any more except for the background.
Project going slowly by design. Decided to take sons to visit grand dad and go camping in Wisconsin and the UP. Figured what the he77, there's no deadline for the new place. This week I'm working on finishing various not-quite-done projects where we already live. Can't figure out how I got so many projects with a few details left hanging. :)Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
I'm going to say that you will learn as much or within 90% right here if you study all the good posts, including the business folder. That course work will make sure you get accreditied for that knowledge..
Excellence is its own reward!
i think that if you want to get your certification it will pay you rewards in the future..
there are a lot of very ambituous people who will be taking the course with you,, the networking you do with your fellow contractor students is invaluable..
usually the courses are run thru your local homebuilder's association.. which is another thing you may want to get involved with..
the more you hang around people who think of the trades as careers, the better off you are..
so.. is the certification worthwhile.?.. i think so.. even though i don't have it myself..Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike thanks for the reply, it came up at work the other day, and I think I could talk the boss into possibly halving the cost if not paying for it.
View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
neil... there is a down side....after you get your "CR",
you might actually start thinking your sh*t don't stink ...
absurd , what ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
you might actually start thinking your sh*t don't stink ...
To late, guess I'm a shoe in hunh lol?View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
Here you go, no charge.
I wonder how you'd go about getting Mickey Mouse to sign it ???Infamouse? Is that some poor relative of Mickey Mouse?
And without getting WD's lawyers to come jump on you for not paying royalties . . .
Anyone want to join my group, the Association of Professionals Everywhere? Got a certificate, and all that . . .
(The form for the National Union of Tool users is not quite finished :) even though everyone tells me I'm a member . . . )
Sounds like something I should be a member of. I could proundly display my APE certification!
In Colorado we have real estate broker associates. I keep wondering if the proper abbreviation for that is broker a$$ or broker asso.... Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
I could proundly display my APE certification!
I know I do.
(You may need an old english font for best display)
ah gee thanks pa!!!!View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
No problem.
Hey, if you want some paper to be a rail installer, I could fix you up. You do have to be certifiable for that one, from what I have seen around here.
yeah, but with that one the papers free what your paying for, its the hospital treatment.
Lock down can get expensive these days.View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
I don't mean to brag, but I am certified to operate a skyhook :)
if U market it right...it's worth it's weight in gold.
I'm planning on joining an association soon....local that's tied to the home builders...was looking at nari...but GC I'm subbing for is a past/present/future Prez of the local and they're going for some interresting changes....
So I figured why join somewhere where I don't know anyone...even thought on the surface it looks to more up my alley.....when I can join an association that's going to start round table's instead of big lecture/meetings and I can be personally sponsered and introduced face to face to most all the existing/active members...
As "Here's Jeff...my best sub".....
Thinking that'll put more money in my pocket quicker than sitting in a room fulla people I haven't met yet.
The whole other point of joining is so I can get all them fancy letters on my business card. Same GC has them and every potential client knows it.
Even as an employee...I'd guess it should be worth a raise or two.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Thanks for the responce.
Probably going to talk to the boss about it once school here lets out of the summer.View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
Depends on who is giving you a certficate.... My buest guess is that certfied tradesman arent qualified to be certified....but many who are qualified dont bother with being certfied... I mean i probably can send Bob $100 and he will send me back a certificate that says im a certfied microsoft windows expert but that doesnt mean i know much about microsoft windows... Just means i sent bob $100.
Basically being certfied is logo candy... It gives the potential customer some assurance that you know what youre doing, well many know how to answer A B C or D on a test but....
Anyhoo... youre better off getting a solid reputation from clients then getting a logo on your advertisements... but thats my opinion