Chimney: Iron Bar Prevents Liner Install
I’m looking for advice from chimney experts out there (perhaps masons, too).
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While my chimney sweep was doing an inspection of my chimney yesterday, he discovered an iron bar going across the long dimension of the chimney (I think it’s around 8†x 18â€). Yep… right across the middle of the flue! This causes a huge problem since I need to have a stainless steel liner installed. Since we installed a new oil furnace 7 years ago, the circa 1868 UNLINED brick chimney is losing mortar. If it helps, I’m in Upper Bucks County, PA.
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Questions:
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1. Why is this iron bar at such a strange location in the first place? It’s about 10’ up from the cellar flue hole—which puts it between the first and second floor at joist level.
2. Could this possibly be some sort of tie-rod that goes though the entire house? There is no evidence of a tie rod since at one end there’s a covered wrap-around porch and the other has the kitchen ell. Still, I can’t imagine a tie-rod being installed straight THROUGH the chimney.
3. I’m trying to save myself a ton of work here. I’d have to rip out enough bricks (in a guest bedroom) so I can fit two hands and a sawzall into the small chimney void—any other ideas??
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I’ve already thought of a cable saw, but I can’t find a carbide type that would cut forged iron. If I could find the right type of cable saw (only can find ones that cut PVC pipe) I might be able to loop a fishline/weight over the top of it, and then pull a cable saw up and over it for cutting from the cellar flue opening 10’ below.
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I can’t get a straight shot down from the top because the chimney takes a 3-4’ offset up in the attic rooms before exiting at the center ridge. I thought of dropping down weights to possibly crack/dislodge the bar, but I’m not sure how rusted/brittle the bar is… and worried about causing interior damage to the masonry.
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Am I destined to rip a huge hole in the chimney inside one of my bedrooms? Should I be worried about opening up TOO big a hole to cause a collapse. My house is a very well build triple brick.
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Thoughts? Advice?
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Jerry
Replies
look before you leap.. someone went to a lot of trouble putting it there... perhaps they even had a reason
is this a typical PA stone farmhouse ?
Edited 9/25/2005 6:05 pm ET by MikeSmith
It's an 1868 early Victorian... triple brick (someone painted it white, though)... gothic pitch roof, gable on the front end... full attic... tons of space. It used to be a two family side-by side until someone renovated it into a single family back in 1980. Originally built for the managers of the local iron mining company here in Durham, PA.
I tell ya, I'm an old house nut for years now but I can't figure what that bar is doing in there. I'm also a commercial photographer, so I'm thinking about a way to photograph it up close with one of my lower grade digital cameras... maybe self-timer while I shove it up close with a flexible sweep's rod. Maybe I can see more details about how it's let in... thickness, etc.
my first guess is it's a tie-rod for the brick walls..
but it could be something simple like an anti-intrusion device... mebbe the builder didn't like santa clauseMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Does the new flue absolutely have to go up the chimney, or is there another location like a closet or something that can be used instead?
Yes. It needs to go up the chimney. The attic has finished rooms... er... room, one big room. The center chimney stack goes up through the middle of this room (angled at this level) with a short stud wall on either side. There are only closets in the two front rooms (hate to come up through the front side of the roof... the "beauty" side of the house).
Besides, I'd hate to have to put another hole in the roof.
The chimney sweep said I'd need a 6" stainless line for our oil furnace. This iron bar probably makes the clearance less than 4" at best. (It's about 8" x 13 or 18").
Jerry
I think a good sheet metal fabricator could work around it, without removing it. I don't think you need to remove it.
>>I think a good sheet metal fabricator could work around it, without removing it. I don't think you need to remove it.
Interesting idea. I suppose you mean to open up the chimney mass (which I most likely have to do anyway, since I can't find a cable saw that can cut metal) and then have a fabricator make a rig to go around this bar. Mmmm... I can picture it... a bit flat and rectangular where it has to go around the bar. Two pieces that can be fitted into place--"locking" it above and below the bar. Then a transition to 6" round to fit the liner.
It would probably cost a decent amount for that piece, but I suppose it would be worth it... IF if can be designed so it doesn't affect the draft. And I guess the chimney would have to remain open while the sweep installs half a liner from above, the other half from below. Sheesh. These guys hate working on anything other than their standard forumula job. Cha-ching. $$$
Thanks, Huck. It's not a simple solution, but it's one that might be necessary.
BTW... I just got done checking on the back side of the main house structure where my kitchen ell attaches. There is exposed brick and a raised ceiling there. I didn't see any evidence of a through-the-house tie rod. I imagine the washer for such a rig would be very visible--about 4-5" in diameter to span the brick courses. That's how large the decorative ones seen in the Northeast and Southeast are (stars mostly)... "earthquake" bolts.
So... I'm leaning more and more toward thinking this bar is short. Most likely installed by the 1860s era mason to tie the first floor chimney mass into the framing being put up around it.
I also just finished re-reading parts of Nash's "Renovating Old Houses" concerning chimneys and came up with a thought: Perhaps this bar is meant to be a heat sink of sorts. Either intended to help with draft (as the metal gets hot the air above it would rise pulling the air below it upwards), or... as a heat sink to keep heat from travelling toward the surrounding floor timers. I had a fire years ago in my NYC loft that started instantly from wood that had s l o w l y turned to charcoal over the course of a few years after the improper install of an under-counter oven.
I wonder...
--Jerry