Clay or stainless chimney pipe.
I’m helping a friend out, and run into several problems. Unfortunately he has very little money and can’t just hire this out. He has just bought a wood stove to help keep his gas costs down, and I was going to help him install it safely. He decided to buy one partly from my advice, so I feel partly responsible. I put in a wood stove at my own house last year, and it was quite easy. Unlike his house, my house has a perfect condition clay lined chimney that is not being used.. His house has a chimney with a clay liner that on initial inspection appeared to be OK/usable, but not great.
I showed him how to cut into his chimney, which is clay lined, and lent him the tools to do so. He called me with bad news yesterday to tell me that the liner is atually really screwed up. The piece above where he cut into it was really loose, and not lined up as well as it should be. Now, with a much better viewing hole in it we could tell that several sections are bad enough that gasses would be going out, around it. I told him that to be safe he would need to reline it inside with metal. Ofcourse the existing liner, with the lack of perfect alignment is not going to allow clearance for the new pipe.
I’m skipping over a bunch of details, but at this point now… I’ve pulled all of the bricks down from the highest point to the roofline which is where the worst problems were. I found that the existing liner was added, and probably done wrong. Also the chimney from the roofline up had been done very poorly, which now doesn’t matter since I am committed to rebuilding it. All of the clay liner was just set in place. It has no flanges and has no mortar to seal or hold it steady in place. I actually used my hammer, with a rope tied to it to hook each piece and pull it all the way up to the roof. The original chimney, without the liner, from the roof down looks really good and is very strait.
Now there is a good path to put in a liner properly. Should I have him get a stainless liner for the whole length, or should I try to reinstall the clay liner, but straight, and with proper sealant between each segment? Is reinstalling the clay properly even possible?
I know most would go with the stainless, and I do know that it would be easier, but…
I will probably have to lend him the money to buy this, and I know it is expensive. Also, he does already have almost enough good condition clay stuff, that is the correct diameter. He will need 4 feet of it replaced though. What does this stuff cost?
I thought that this was all the bad stuff but it gets worse. He said that his gas has been shut off for a while now, and his only other heat source is a couple space heaters. It’s now getting cold and time to completion is important.
Also I just found out that my brother is in the hospital again (he has a rare life threatening disease) and I really would like to leave town for a while to visit him. So now I’m really in a hurry, and may need to hold onto my money for travel.
Any advice? I have a strong working knowledge of building and almost everything mechanical. I do have, or have access to, just about any tool. Just never rebuilt or relined a chimney.
Thanks.
-Tyler-
Replies
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Thanks Piffin for the bump. Finally some people wrote.
To those suggesting that I want to do a lousy install, that is not the case, otherwise he would already be up and running. I told him no, that it would not be safe the way that it was. I just wanted to see if anybody here had tried to install a clay liner in an existing chimney. The gas bill is too much for me to loan him, over $2000 from last winter. And at that rate it would be off again soon. His house is not too big, it's just old and typical of this area. The economy is very depressed here, which is not really his fault. And no, I'm not helping him just because I feel responsible. He's a friend who helps me when I need it too.
As far as risk, everything has risk. I drive him and his kids in my car and I could kill him in a crash. I could cause his house to burn down if I screw up. The kind of work that gets done by professionals around here could be the highest risk. I work to way higher standards than the average professional around here. Yea, insurance may not cover a fire if I do the work. That's a risk that he's willing to take.
Thanks.
how high is the chiminey.. The stainless I bought was $36 for three feet. and it only goes from ceiling to three feet above roof. Total of three pieces.
I don't think anyone was saying you want to do a lousy install. I think everyone who responded can sympathize with your position, but the guys here are (generally) the antithesis of the "professionals" you describe as abounding in your area. Your good intentions and skill aren't being questioned. Your legal qualifications to do the work are questionable (varies by AHJ), and since you've never done this, the consensus among the responders is simply: this is too risky.
I was in no way suggesting you would do a lousy install.
It seemed from your original post that you were needed elsewhere (relatives take priority over friends) and that his budget couldn't swing the $600 to $800 for a good insulated stainless liner-which would be the way to go.
Trying to slide clay tile down and having a good fit is a crap shoot at best.
Another alternative is Supaflue-a liner poured in place,but also pricey.
I'm sure your talent would make a stainless install very safe,but your OP made time and money seem like it was in short supply.
I hope your brother makes out well and you're able to leave soon for a visit.
Best regards, Walter
I'd have him return the stove-doesn't sound like his budget and your timing will lead to a positive conclusion of this install.
I'm afraid I agree. Leave stuff like that to experienced hands--too much is at stake.
Wilkes Barre, huh?
Cheapest route would obviously be clay. You might want to check out a book by George Nash, I have it somewhere around...something like "Renovating Old Houses."
He describes lining the chimney from the top by dropping each piece on a rope and wooden block. Never seen it done but suppose it's possible if he says so. I'd probably get one stuck at an angle, break the rope and fall off the roof.
Good luck,
Todd
I don't have the expertise to answer the question you posted, but I agree with other posts that suggest you do not do this work. I understand you feel responsible for him getting the woodstove. However, how badly will you feel if your friend burns his house down because he is using the stove as a major heat source, and you did something not quite correct during the installation ( certainly a possibility if you go the route of reinstalling the clay liner). Where I live, you cannot do this work yourself. It must be done by a certified installer. If your friend has insurance, it is very likely that they would not pay if damage was done because of an uncertified installation.
It is not your responsibility to deal with the fact that unseen problems emerged, and it is no longer a straight-forward installation. We all like to help our friends but in this case your friend probably needs to delay this install.... save some money, and do it properly once he has some more cash. Realistically, if you lend your friend the money, how would he ever pay you back??
Go visit your brother. When you come back, you can explore the available ideas for whatever help you can give your friend , if he has not already sorted out his money issues.
I'm with the others - A bad wood stove installation isn't a good idea.
If you're gonna end up loaning him money, maybe it would be better to loan him money to get his gas turned back on. Or help apply for public aid or other help with his heating bill.
Maybe if he's that bad off he can't afford the house and should look at something smaller.
Anything is better than a messed up wood stove installation.
Perhaps there is a different stove, like a wood pellet stove or something, that could be vented directly through the chimney to the outside for the time being?
It is my understanding (although I can't "prove") that clay flue tiles are currentluy allowed simply from tradition; that they don't meet modern criteria for flue safety.
I'n pretty sure I learned that in one of my combustion analysis classes.
I'd go for the stainless.
And good quality (digital readout) CO detector.
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So what did you decide?
when in doubt add garlic
I tried to put in the clay liner that he had (7" square) 2 days ago. The first one down just did not have enough clearance to sit as straight as it needed to be. While I was at work yesterday, he bought the 6" round clay liner. He decided on this, I was still debating stainless at this point. This had about 1/2" more clearance, plus no corners, vs. his old liner. The whole thing went in in about 2 hours after work yesterday. Piece of cake. Then a toilet brush duct taped on a copper pipe cleaned the excess cement from the seams all the way down. It's very solid, perfectly straight and no ridges from misalignment.Today I'll lay as much brick as I can. Tomorrow I'm leaving for California to visit my brother. Getting the time off of work turned out to be the real obstacle. Family leave is very specific and doesn't mention brother. Just spouse, children, parent. I had to get vacation time switched around and trade some days with poeple.
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