Hello again,
I wanted advice from those of you that have read the last issue of consumer reports about kitchen cabinets.
1. Is there another place to get info on product comparison like Consumer report that deals with builing products ie. like cabinets, toilets, and decking.
2. Anyone agree with the write up in consumer reports on the different cabinets?
Thanks in advance for the help, Turtleboy
Replies
Don't know how you'd set up a test of cabinetry that would be competitive.
Mind you my (jaded, cynical, too-long) experience with cabinets is that almost all comparisons wind up being apples to asparagus to papier machè/wax . . .
No two outfits seem to use the same hardware (hinges, guides, etc) or the same materials, or the same construction. How do you compare an only-from the catalog 3/8" flakeboard carcass face frame cabinet line to true 5/8" melamine on mdf frame less cabinets to custom made all hardwood face frame cabinets on your choice of carcass materials?
An analogy just leapt to mind: Vespa vs Moto Guzzi vs Yugo wagon vs Infinity coupe vs conversion Hummer vs Bentley saloon.
For other building products, it can be simpler, but not always. What's the difference between a Kohler and an American Standard in the same price range? Probably only the design. How good are they? Probably about the same (or until somebody puts in $3 replacement guts from a big box . . . )
It will be interesting to see what other opinions this thread gets . . .
A couple of years ago FHB has this on cabinets. I think that CR might have had some similar information in one of there issues.
They are not actual testing of specific models. But rather comparision of construction methods and features across several different levels of products.
The Woodworking Institute of California, or WIC, is an authority that certifies mill and cabinet shops, andWIC's standards are often specified on residential and commercial plans. WIC describes two basic styles of cabinets, or casework, including frameless, or Euro style, and traditional face frame cabinets. Those are broken into four grades: Economy, Custom, Premium, and Laboratory grades, each of which specify appropriate shop drawings, material, construction, workmanship, installation and finish standards. WIC also has millwork standards for plywood and lumber, including softwood and hardwood, and besides cabinets, the organization sets standards for stairs, trim countertops, doors and windows.
Though many of us aren't certified by WIC, we nevertheless recognize their authority and unless certified shops are specified on plans, adhere to their standards when called for. You can visit their website at http://www.wicnet.org/, and I believe you can still obtain their "Manual of Millwork." I'm sure other states also have similar organizations.
Namaste,
Gary
http://gwwoodworking.com/
Turtle,
FWIW, I've found over the years that as my knowledge of a given subject increases, I've been less likely to regard Consumer Reports products reviews seriously.
For example, I used to be a well-educated audiophile in the pre-digital days. While much of the basic data provided by CR was truthful and accurate, much of what they had to say was largely meaningless to those of us with more than a modicum of knowledge and experience, and the "consumer-grade" equipment they chose to review was not of the slightest interest to me.
My experience with their tool reviews has been very similar, as I'm not interested in sears or Ryobi tools, and I don't recall them ever reviewing the kinds of tools with which I build my furniture.
I'd be curious to see what they have to say about cabinets. But, I doubt a CR review would be read the same way by cabinetmakers and the buying public, nor do I believe I'd find them of more than passing interest because the knowledge available through the trade and my peers is far more in-depth and meaningful to me than the kind of cursory overview generally provided by CR.
While I believe CR is a venerable and worthwhile institution, I generally only seek their advice on products like toasters and clothes irons.
Good luck,
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
I tend to agree. I read Consumer's Reports regularly and I have often disagreed with CR on items that I knew a bit about. And I bought a toaster strictly on CR ratings and it was one of the worst, and most expensive, toasters I have ever had...
I agree with both you and Jazzdog, but I thought I'd put it to those in the know. Thanks for the advice.
turtleboy
I feel much the same way about CR. They do well when it comes to objective testing where it applies, but it seems that some of thjeir ratings are influenced by an overall "enviromentalist" or "green" interpretation of the overall findings.
For instance, I once remember reading a review of SUVs that regarded the suburban as extremely expensive in comparison to other vehicles. They failed to mention the safety and longevity and utilitarian useage for which it is designed in copmparison to othjer vehicles or the size and capacity of it. Of course a large vehicle will cost more to own and operate than a RAV or Rodeo! but it will accomplish twice as much.
So my opinion is that they do not always place things in context.
I have a brother who is religiously fanatic about using CR to pre-rate his potential puchases. he is no more succesful than I in making satisfactory purchases.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Gary, I don't know if I have seen you here before. Welcome to BT and thanbks for that link to the WW institute.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin - having a bit a green tinge myself, I disagree that CR bases much of anything on green or environmental values. (And certainly not on "buy American".) Usually it is based strictly on dollars. However, there seems to be a fudge factor built into a lot of their bar graph ratings that is not explained and I haven't been able to figure out.
Edited 7/8/2004 11:03 pm ET by CaseyR
Piffin, thanks for the welcome, but I've been a lurker and occasional poster for a few years, though most of my activity is at Knots. Gary
http://gwwoodworking.com/