Brief background and scope – I have installed a new cast iron tub, valves, shower head, toilet and floor tile in my wife’s bathroom. I also tore out the old surround and replaced the area (tub to ceiling) with cement board and 3 1/2″ square ceramic field tile and a somewhat expensive, upper row of 3 1/2″ x 7″ decorative tile. I, of course, tested the new copper plumbing before hanging the board and tile.
Problem – After setting all the tile except for the bottom row, I discovered that while attaching support boards on which to hang the starter row, I had punctured (pinhole size) a vertical section of the cold supply pipe (section about 8″ long, with a slip joint on one end and a T on the other.) I now have a completely tiled and grouted surround, except for a 10″ square area where I sawed out the cement board and previously set tile. The damaged pipe and joints are exposed, barely.
Question – I don’t have space to use a mini tube cutter (the punctured, vertical section of pipe is about 1″ from a stud and resides in an exterior, rock veneer wall.) Can I “unsweat” this damaged section and resolder with new joints? Alternatively, is there some other way to repair the hole?
She’s ready to shower and I’m ready to leave the country, but not quite yet mentally prepared to tear out the entire wall section.
Replies
there is an epoxy that you can put on that seems to hold - guys use it here to take care of pin hole leaks & the there is a clamp affair that you can use to stop the leak (kind of like 2 clam shells coming together in reverse order -- however, I like the old time hose clamp with a piece of EPDM roofing as the part that goes between the hose clamp and the pipe -- these are made for this kind of fix and will last forever
I would be reluctant to repair a pipe and then seal it in a wall. There's a lot of pressure in that pipe and it has nothing better to do all day than find a way out. If you get another pinhole at some point it may drip and damage the inside of the wall for a long time before you notice it in the basement. If you can get at the pipe, use something to cut it and sweat in a splice. A hacksaw blade held in visegrips, a sawzall, a dremel, a phasor... something.
David, thanks for your reply and abundance of caution. I agree about repairing the pinhole puncture, per se. What about reheating the joints at each end of the damaged 8" long section, there is currently a slip joint on one end and an L on the other, and resoldering with a new section of pipe and new joints? Is it advisable to "unjoin" and resolder copper joints? Thanks. Zbalk
Z, you can unsolder if you want without any problems. Do you have room to move the pipes and slip them out of the fittings?
If so, you can hacksaw through the pipe right where the hole is and slip a coupling on and solder it in place. May be easier than taking it apart.
J.
J, thanks, done deal. I have room to reheat, wiggle loose, rejoin and resolder. Zbalk.
Be carefull in the enclosed wall with the torch, don't want a thread about fixing fire damage.
Got a hose clamp over a piece of inner tube on a pipe in the basement (hot water pipe even) that hasn't leaked in the 25 years since I put it on "temporarily" after one of the kids threw a dart into it.
You muist have seen my old man fix the dart hole I put in a HW pipe in '58 and remembered the repair method...
BTW it's still there and he used a folded tire patch and a bronze clamp...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
woke up one night at 3 am..heard a whooshing sound in my rented trailer..it was 5 below and I looked out side to see a plume of steam billowing out from under...shut off the power to the WH and got dreesed for a little explore..sure enough a 1/2 '' copper hot line burst. Back to bed. Next morning cut a hunk of heater hose I had left over from some past auto fix up..two hose clamps and 3'' of heater hose fixed it right up..may not be ok for potable water or long term..but at least I could take shower till the owner fixed it on his time and $.
Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?
My version wraps the rubber around the pipe, first, then overlays with a piece of black plastic irrigation supply pipe. Then the hose clamps.
Cut the irrigation pipe lengthwise with almost anything sharp, to slip over the repair patch.
The rubber seals.
The irrigation pipe provides even distribution of the clamping pressure. And even support of the patch.
Three hose clamps. One directly on top of the leak. The other two, about 1/4 to 1/2 inch to the sides. With the heads of the clamps on the opposite side of the diameter of the pipe.
You can cut a pipe halfway through with a sawzall, and repair it this way. As long as the pipe is secured, (does not flex and move), the repair will last as long as the rest of the plumbing will.
Of course, the whole thing works even better if you cover the hole with some sticky rubber plumber's patch tape first. I have never needed it, but I figure it would be just one more way to be sure.
Best thing is that the repair can be done wet. I have even done it with the pipe still under pressure. No fire or special equipment needed. Only enough access to be able to get the patch parts on.
Yaaarg !¡!!¡!!! Stand still... While I smite thee !
quittintime
fix it if it was cut 1/2 way through witha sawzall...sounds to me like ya know this first hand?...I never did such a thing (wink)..
sounds like a helluva good fix...gotta replace ALL my pipes in the shack..beyond any hope of repair.
Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?
Awwww shut up ! You tell anyone else about that, and I'll get Gunner to moidilize ya. LOL
It is a good patch, yes. But only if yer having this one problem. You wouldn't find a bunch of these patches, even on pipes that I own. There's a point where you replace, or sell and move out. Sounds like you've already decided that.
I have one patch of this sort in service right now. The pipe has almost no pressure at all. Ever. It is, in fact, on a piece of irrigation pipe. LOL The pipe is used for water supply from my storage tank, but is never under any pressure except gravity, and that is very little at all. The slice was in the pipe before I got it. Had I known it was there, I would have cut at a different point, and it would have been tossed.
This patch has it's place after an accident, freeze, etc. Not on some pipe that is just so old and eroded that it is developing leaks. Bandaids do little good for nightmares.
Yaaarg !¡!!¡!!! Stand still... While I smite thee !
quittintime
You could just purchase a Dresser coupler for potable water and put it on, and forget it.
I have got three of them, (2) 3/4", (1) 1/2" in my plumbing box. Cost about $20.00 total, about eight years ago. I have made x times that amount using them for emergency repairs at nights and on weekends when the supply houses are closed.
They are metal clamps with a captured nut and bolt that slips into dogging ears. The inside of the coupler has a piece of rubber either fixed or loose that is applied to the pipe. Slip it on, flip the bolts into the dogs and tighten everything down untill there are no drips.
Wipe up and clean up the site. Fill out the invoice, collect $$, schedule permanet repair for more $$ (resonable), go home and sleep .
I love my Dresser Couplers!
Dave
Perfect.
But sometimes one makes do with what one has.
Yaaarg !¡!!¡!!! Stand still... While I smite thee !
quittintime
Isn't there a coupling that does not have the ridge in the center? I read a piece about changing shower temp valves with couplings that slid over the two ends...so you could change the valve without rippin out the whole thing...
Bud
yup, a repair coupling. got some by mistake once, thought they were de-fective....my oops.
Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?
Dudley's hose clamp and EDPM is good. Looks cheesey, but it works.
You want to make a slip coupling magically appear on the pipe without cutting, deburring and sanding in such a tiny space, right? Well how about half a coupling?
Cut a coupling in half, lengthwise. An abrasive chop saw (while holding the coupling in vise-grips) is ideal. Tin snips will cut but also bend the copper.
Sand and flux the heck out of the 1/2 coupling and the pipe. Hold in place with the aforementioned hose clamp. Apply torch and solder. Let cool completely. Test for leaks.
There actually isn't much force to required to hold back a pinhole leak. I've seen 1/16" to 1/4" holes (aggressive corrision inside a steel vessel) held back by a coat of paint! If it is really "pin-hole" - screw-tip or nail tip and not the whole 16d nail, then just sweat the hole. Sand and flux really well and sweat it. All done.
Oh, and before sweating on the pipe, if it has ever held water - attach a shop vac to one end and let it suck for 10 minutes while you open the other end wide.
Youve probably already fixed it .
Ive been called out a lot lately unfreezing water pipes on rentals and repairing lines .
If the water is out of the pipe , it needs nothing but flux and sorder. I would sand it though before fluxing .
A coupling cut in half out of copper with a hose clamp holding it during sordering will fix a frozen bulge and split in the pipe or a hole with out altering it. I use two clamps to press the bulge back in place then remove one.
I tried the PVC coupling first out side in a trench . The pipe doesnt know the difference . HEHE. I fix PVC all the time the same way as copper . I hardly ever cut it anymore .
One of the best applications doing it that way is a freeze proof faucet thats had the hose hooked up causing the freezing . Clamp it together and solder with the guts taken out with 1/2 1 inch coupler cut in half.
Tim Mooney
i've used the same over-solder patch trick with one minor variation- i cut the repair coupler patch slightly bigger than in half- say about 200-220 degrees of a circle, then squeezed it down a little so it kinda clamped onto the pipe all by itself (didn't have a hose clamp handy at the time but did use some black iron stove wire). don't know how well it held- moved out not too many months later.
m
Another method to fix the pin hole is to enlarge it enough to screw in a brass screw coated with flux, it only needs to be in far enough to plug the hole. Apply heat, test, tile, and don't worry about it. I've done this many times, it's quick and painless and I've never had one leak. It's no different than sweating copper pipe to brass unions/valves/whatever.
Thanks Nick, thats a gem . Can I keep that ? :) Ill add it to my arsenal plumbing repair box. Brass screws with pan heads ,Ill be looking for .........
I just picked up a micro wire brush cleaning and sanding system for an 1/8 th router . Cleaning copper in a small space was on my mind as I remember just last month a split beside a stud in copper .
Invaluable thread for a handy man or one with rentals .
Tim Mooney
Where did you find the wire brush/sanding tool? I assume it fits the 1/8" collet on a laminate trimmer, and I could think of a few times where it would have come in handy.
BTW, the brass screw is a keeper : )
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Walmart sells a kit for that engraving router deal. Flex shaft thing. Works on laminate router is right.
Tim Mooney