This is the 2 most dreaded things I hear while doing a job. It almost always happens, the customer comes up and asks if you would “move this” or do that. When I first started out doing home remodeling. One of my first customers did this to me. And me being the nice guy that I am I did it. When it came time for the bill and I added the extra work on. the customer came unglued. I ended up eating a lot of the extra work just to get paid.
I still hate to stop and redo the estimate just for something like adding an extra receptacle. How do you guys handle this situation?
Kip
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Depends. I was doing some stuff for a lady in a rich neighborhood, and she mentioned that the track for one of the drawers in a built-in cabinet wasn't working properly. She removed the drawer, and we found that the screws that hold the rear socket for the extension slide had fallen out. I got two screws out of the truck and fastened the socket, she installed the drawer, and it works fine. Took 5 minutes ... no charge ... one attaboy for me.
If they want to add an extra outlet, I figger out how much is involved. If it's more than pocket change, I say sure, but I need more material and a little time ... so I need to add $50-75 to the bill. Sometimeds they change their mind real quick.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Ed, you're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.
Now you know why I don't do remodeling.
blueIf you want to read a fancy personal signature... go read someone else's post.
Ed, you're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.
Now you know why I don't do remodeling.
But ya make money if U do .... so write up the change order that states any/all changes paid in full prior to start ...
collect the check ... and do it.
Now ya know why I "do" do remodeling!
this is what remodeling is all about ... if you'd charge then to do in the original estimate ... what's the problem with charging now?
I charge out change orders at $5 more than the standard rate. As spelled out in the contract.
I'm guessing he didn't start with a contract to begin with.
Jeff
Jeff
I'm with you on this, an old carp used to tell me, "changes and corners" thats where you make your money!
He made a great living, all remodel work.
Jeff, I do the change orders. They're called "extras" in the new home biz around here. Most builders don't like them, but we have it written into our contract.
At one time last year the builder I was working for, in a relatively small sub, had so many requests that I had to hire a man full time. That worked out great because we had the superintendent call the "service man" direct and we never had to have our work interupted.
Ironically, since we KNEW we were operating profitably on all the service work, we were HAPPY when the super came a knockin. That was a direct contrast to all the other trades in the sub. Being HAPPY to do service has went a long way to building goodwill with that builder as well as many others.
I thank Sonny for helping me to raise my hourly rates (I'm at 58.50) to a level that I know is profitable. Even though we were charging a lot more than the other carpenter subs, the super always came to see us becaue the other guys were either grumpy or stalled.
I just don't like dealing with homeowners regarding change orders. I might not mind it as much now but I hate remodeling anyways.
blueIf you want to read a fancy personal signature... go read someone else's post.
it's a mindset difference ...
between new const and remodeling.
biz set up is different too ...
change orders can drive the average "builder" out of biz. Tight schedules are what makes for profit.
In remodeling ... changes are what it's all about ... so different mindset and a different cash flow.
Worked for a guy ... going in I knew he just about bankrupt an honest builder ... bought a spec in framing ... took a $400K house to $850 ...
from what I know of the situation ... was fairly chraged for the extras .. and paid for the extras ... but what he took from the builder was his scheduling.
Hard to build thoe other 3 or 4 houses a year when ya spend over 6 more months at the one ya already started. Last we talked .. the original builder had already made plans to buy his next 3 lots ....
I can only imagine he was paying on those ... sitting unbuilt in their sundivisions ...
as he was now a custom home builder for an undecisive customer.
Just think of the potential sales he lost as all those other homes around his lots got finished as his lots just sat.
No planning could have saved that.
I did OK with the customer ... knowing his background from day one ... and ... the fact we started with a set of prints he made it known were just a rough outline.
A new const. guy woulda killed him by the end.
I left just a bit dazed and confused .... but with a great finished product and a great reference.
If I hadn't done remodeling all my life ... and have the mindset ....
I'da killed him!
Funny thing about the two mindsets ...
as a remodeler ... I don't see how anyone makes any money in new const ...
unless ya got tons to start with and go big from the beginning.
Jeff
Interested in hourly rates.
Here in rural Alaska, work can be elusive. Steady now and we bill $30 time and materials. We are low, but still establishing a bus.
What are typical hourly rates?
I totally agree with Ed. Remodel work is all I do (in site construction, that is) and there is a balance to be struck between being kind and maintaining clear boundaries. The benefits in gratitude and public relations far outweigh the cost of those little favors. If the favor is bigger, it is a change order. We can be generous without being pushovers.
Bill
I don't run my own business so take it for what it's worth
My suggestion would be an a change order either signed on the spot or prior to the work being started.
I'll go with Ed, if its not a problem, be a nice guy. If its a continuing problem... add a $ sign to every request and see how infrequent they become. Others here have mentioned a 3 free questions rider to their contracts, personally I haven't run into a PITA big enough to use that one.
IMO a lot of what I consider better estimators include a little extra to cover a couple of 'freebies'. Usually a couple of hundred dollars but with customers with histories of asking for 'small changes' it should be a little larger. Works out well. You get to play the accommodating hero and still get paid.
Anything more than this calls for change orders.
of course a lot of this depends on specifically what is asked for and when. If the HO wants an added receptacle close to ones I have already planned and it is during rough-in it is a simple thing to do. Usually, unless this is repeated a lot, no charge.
Wanting the same receptacle installed after the drywall is up and finished is a much larger issue. If it is wanted in an 'inaccessible' wall, very few spots are truly inaccessible just a PITA, then it grows still larger. And more expensive.
I have found that if the plan was gone over in detail with all costs laid out and the prints finalized in a fairly formal matter that folks seem more amenable to change orders.