I am going to start installing some oak crown on Monday and I am wondering if anyone can give me some helpful tips. I read an article in the FH magazine and the author suggests butting one end and coping the other end to it, for inside corners, which makes sense to me. He also suggests ripping 2 x 4’s at an angle and fastening to the wall as a nailing backer for the crown. Is this a good idea? Any and all advice from someone with experience would be very much appreciated! Thanks!
Thanks!
Replies
that about covers it.
upsidedown and backwards ...
a hair long and spring it tight.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Gee Jeff--ya make it sound so easy I might even try it.Merry Christmas and Happy New Year--Sorry to hear about your finger--glad your better--Hope the family is well.Mike" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
crown ... either it's easy ... or it ain't!
all the basic's are there ... more tips aren't gonna cover more experience.
just gotta find out if it's easy for him (easy being a relative term!) ... or not.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
crown ... either it's easy ... or it ain't!How very true--Should we muddy the waters even more and explore the upside down and backwards vs. the face up and flat schools of thought?Or the ever popular Crown in a tube?So how the digit? You just said it was inproving but that was all--Did you have that at Cals?Mike" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
can't remember if I bent it right before or right Cals ...
tried to count back to the week I think I squished it ...
at the time ... only thing I could come up with was carrying a 60" vanity with 2 sets of drawers ... heavy ... helping a buddy ... got the front door ... I was going in first walking backwards ... said .. Hold on .. I gotta reposition my hands ...
he didn't hold on.
to keep from dropping a coupla thousand bucks worth of overpriced vanity ... I grabbed tight with the one hand I still had half a grip on ... and all the weight was carried thru the door pretty much with that one finger.
Took off my gloves ... had a nice white line straight thru that "pad" ... between knuckles on the finger.
After the feeling came back ... was numb for about 15 min ... no pain at all ... that was a Monday ... no pain that whole week ... following weekend was when I woke up with a broke finger.
Me and my buddy decided that was either late July or early August ... his job ... I didn't keep track and he couldn't remember either.
Swelling is still 99% gone and still feels pretty good.
passed up a fill in job today to grout a kitchen floor ... told the GC I'd either go to their other job and hang cabs or go home. Not gonna screw it up just yet!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Congrats to your Steelers--Black Sunday for me--The Colts and Da'Bears on the same day.I sure could use some of that IronCity right about now.Glad your finger is on the mend---makes carpentry tough when you are always watching out for a hurt one.Musta been after---or all those cold ones were keeping the swelling down. Mike" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
I was rooting for Chicago to go all the way ...
not sure why ... just thot it'd make for an "old time game" with the Stillers against da bears ... beer and brat sales may have hit an all time high!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Man could you just imagine the parties in Chi-town if they got Da Bear and Da Sox in the same year.I was born and raise South side so the Sox are it for me.Have always had a soft spot for Da Bears and with the Yikeings playing the way they have it is easy.Once Denny Green left for Az. I was kinda hopeing Tony Dungee would come back to his roots (played Qb for the Gophers)Thank God the Nascar season is about to start up--Mike" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
Well spoken,
After switching to a Collins coping foot, it's just painful to even pick up a coping saw. :-)
They take a while to get the hang of it, but once you do it's easier and faster, especially on wider profiles and hardwood.
A 23g is awfully small compared to even an 18g. If a lot of caulking is used that would hold things well, but not all painters use much more than a thin coating. If the humidity rises and the crown wants to bow out from the wall, those 23g pins aren't going to hold much. On the other hand, we've all struggled to pull off old crown that seemed to be super glued to the wall with 30 years of old caulk.
Cheers,
Don
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
you don't have to make a bunch of expensive mistakes with that oak crown, I mean, come on, that's what we're here for. if you are working alone, you need very accurate measurements -- you can make yourself a helper (just a piece of plywood with a saw kerf cut in it to hook your tape on -- say, 10 inches from the corner -- then just remember to add ten inches.)
also, when you cope, it's worth the time to rig up a jig that mimics the spring angle (the angle it comes off the wall -- sometimes 45 degrees) then, when you go to cope it you have something solid to hold on to, and you don't have to 'over' back cut it. you can see (just by looking straight down as you cope) whether you've removed enough of the back of the cut to accommodate nesting into the second piece.
go ahead and make a nice jig, you can use it for the rest of your career. mine is just a piece of radiata pine about six feet long with some 2x4 angles screwed to it.
set it on your bench so you can see clearly and cope comfortably.
one more thing, I find it most effective to install your coping saw blade to push, not pull the saw. (before you all get your panties in a bunch, here's why) 2 reasons.
the push stroke eliminates tear out on the face. the push stroke allows gravity to do most of the work (it's easier to lift the weight of a coping saw than pull against the fibers of wood with your right hand while your left is trying to hold it steady.
cut with your coping saw angled so it is removing wood on the back side of the cut first so that you only have to finesse it through a smaller amount of material.
don't try to cope the most delicate top or bottom details. cope close to them and then roll your knife (from the back side) to finish it off.
final point -- I say this all the time. spend the hundred bucks on a bosch miter finder.
that way, if you have a corner that isn't 90 degrees you can still get perfect miters without chumping an expensive piece of crown. (and you get the luxury of cutting it perfectly on the 'flat')
Push cope?
Why thats just crazy.
Properly done, your hand should be pulling the saw from under the workpiece.
Gord
crazy? can't you understand? go back to my previous message and re-read why you're an idiot.
Sorry Pete, I've been at this too long to be a one D ten T.
Gord
You're right, techniques vary from person to person. What is comfortable for one is impossible for another. You made some good points and it was not my intention to defer from them.
DW works jewelry on occasion. She has a small fret saw for cutting silver, etc. The blade is miniscule, under compression it would either collapse, or deflect to such a point it would not cut true.
The knife idea for adjusting the cut is a good one. Personally, I use one of three files. Half round, flat or triangular.Gord
you're a gentleman
>> Push cope? <<
Some people push, some people pull. I've seen some good carpenters push. Personally I pull but that's just me - wish I was a good carpenter ;-) Maybe I need to push? :-)
I would add that using the test pieces to set the the saw may help the confusion of orienting the piece to be cut, in the saw.
Go to your local Home Depot and buy the book, "Crown Molding & Trim" by Wayne Drake.
Think the book is $20 also need the True Angle (adjustable protractor) takes about 30 mins to go through the book & you should be under way.
They also have a site http://www.compoundmiter.com
I have the book & protractor & have lent it out to many, all returned it with good results!
Since you're installing oak, I assume that it will have a natural finish (not painted). You'll want to completely pre-finish the molding before you install it. Then after it's installed, touch-up the nail holes with matching wood putty.
How will you be securing it? Pneumatic finish nailer? Hand nailing is not easy, but if that's what you'll be doing, be sure to pre-drill the holes.
Have you done any coping before? If not, I would suggest some practice on scrap pieces. Start with pine, it's easier than oak. I just use a coping saw, a utility knife and a rasp.
I also butt one end and cope the other. Since I'm right-handed, I butt the left end and cope the right end. It makes it just a little bit easier. Make your cope first and then measure from there to cut the butt end to the right length. I haven't used a nailing backer. For the jobs that I've done so far, it seems like it would have been more work, but I'm sure there are cases where it would work out well.
-Don
hey duey,
I agree with don , cut on the push stroke .
How big is the crown , up to about 3in. is pretty easy, after that it gets more difficult.
Try to use full lengths (no splice) per wall.
Take all measurements from wall to wall.That will be the long point of the miter on the cope . Cut this first then hook your tape on it and measure the length . Try tofinish with an out side corner.
Mark out all your solid nailing (including ceiling) , if no nailing at ceiling then use blocks attached to wall . Mark some reference points on wall and ceiling to keep you near where you should be . Dont secure the last 2-3ft. of the previous piece installed . This allows you to move it up/ down in order to fit the corner.
Like Jeff said none of the suggestions make up for experience .
16d finish nails come in handy, if you can find them .
good luck, post back on monday to let us know how it went .
DAVE
While we're on the subject of crown molding (if I should start another thread, sorry, let me know):
I'm repairing my old plaster walls and find that in some places, there is a gap between the crown molding and wall--near one corner it's almost 1/4" wide. Where it's a small gap I am using setting DW compound--the same stuff I am using to repair the walls--which seems to work fine. But what about the big gaps? More DW compound? Might it crack? Caulk? If so, what kind?
Many thanks,
Marc
On the corners inside and outside, make a matching test piece about a foot long. For outside miters, the test piece is outside miters both ends of the piece, for inside the peice is either coped both ends or if you're mitering it's inside miters both ends. Stick your workpiece up but only nail it in the middle or down at the other end from where the joint you're working on is. Since there is always some play in crown, you can now fit the two pieces together perfectly and nail home the workpiece with the knowledge that your next workpiece will fit perfectly.
Learn to cope and do you inslde corners that way. Sometimes inside miters are good to use.
I like to always back up and glue on a plywood backer piece to all splices.
Crownwork takes practice.
Get a helper to hold the other end in place while you nail.
That's all I can tell you for now.
There are a lot of good suggestions here. So I'll just give a few more.
1) As previously mentioned, it would definitely be worth your time to practice a few copes first. With paint grade work a little caulk can cover minor screw ups, but if you are using oak, those copes have to be tight! I find that every profile has it's little nuances. Some I find very easy and others more challenging to get tightly fitted. It wouldn't hurt to practice a few and see where you need a little work.
2) I rip strips of ply wood to use as nailing backers instead of 2X4's. Depending on the depth of the mouldings you may need to build up the ply-wood strips, but it's much more stable than framing lumber. Typically I will skip this step for small bed mouldings, but if I have a crown over 3 1/2 or 4 inches it's a good idea. Also I've found that I really only need them on walls running parallel to the ceiling joists.
3) Also if your moulding is on the large side, I would take the time to build a jig to hold the moulding in your saw. Just a slight inaccuracy in the cut can throw the miter or the cope way off.
Good luck, hope this helps!
I don't understand! I cut it twice and it's still too short!
What is the width of the crown and the size of the room(s)?
Try using 2 or three upside-down sheetrock mud buckets as a bench to hold the crown when you cope it. Put a cloth on the crown so your foot doesn't mark it . cut on pull. use a med. fine blade. give helper[yes, you need a helper] a gauge block the length the crown extends down the wall. a light pencil mark at every stud keeps helper holding the crown w/out twisting. Don't nail the last few ft untill the next piece is being fit. try to end on an outside corner A lotta times it helps to measure outside corners to a straight edge rather thar the rock because of the corner beads. End of job should have pile of Identical looking pieces of cope scrap on the floor. good lucl, Jim
I like the idea of a gauge too. but if you follow the ceiling around the room your crown will wave up and down with the dips in the ceiling sheetrock or plaster. at least the bottom edge of your crown should be straight -- you can work the top edge as necessary.
we use a gauge with two steps on it. a sharp pencil tells us where the bottom of the crown should go, and the second (one inch above) tells us where we will snap a line.
we do it like this, lining up the two corner marks, or two lowest marks (keeping in mind we may have more labor planing the top of the two corners) so that after we snap the line we can use the same gauge (this time following the snapped line) and make a tick (with a circle around it to tell it apart from the others) to tell us exactly where the bottom of the crown should be. it allows us to have a straight installation without worrying about painters or paperers having to deal with our chalk dust.
I've tried different approaches to filling large ceiling gaps you sometimes have to deal with on stain grade moulding -- but the best I've come up with so far is to rip some long strips of the same species on a slight angle, so, what you have is a long wedge. glue it and then use a light block to tuck in tight. it'll fill the widest point in some spots and barely hold the sharpest point in others -- but, a few light scores with a knife (following the top edge of the crown) will make a better looking scribe with less effort than taking down the high spots with a plane or a sander. the eyeball on the ground can't see how deep that 'veneer' wedge is.
and sorry, one more thing -- drywall buckets? lets just make our lives easier and build a half decent portable bench. mine is just four 2x4 legs with 2x4 stretchers. it's easier to carry than saw horses -- you just walk through the middle of it. actually I have about six of these (they work so well) all the same size -- except for the miter saw table -- it's outfeed fences are the same height as the rest.
don't get too upset just yet -- I apologize for my outburst a few posts down.
Edited 1/16/2006 10:41 am ET by Pete
hey listen, I'm sorry for being a little overboard -- I forgot for a second we're giving advice to someone who might not be as well prepared as those of us who do it every day -- upon reflection, your bucket suggestion is well advised for someone who may not be a full time detail dude.
Hey Pete, didn't get any truly ascerbic posts so I thought I'd throw a little more of it on. Been' coping crown (and other things) for over 30 yrs and have watched with varying amounts of humor some of the "timesaving" things pack around with 'em to run crown. Most of my work has been in houses I've had framed and I realize just what a good framing looks like. I see extra blocks in the inside corners to give good nailing, all walls are strung, and if the crown is part of a much larger cornice assembly, I see the blocking installed. I gun nail most of my crown but use 8 or even 16d nails in some places. seldom pre-drill. cut the point off the nail w/sidecutters, notice it leaves a chisel-like end. put the chisel across the grain and nail it in. rarely a crack,especially in softer woods. Als, keep a can of stain and a rag at the bench and stain all cut ends before you put them up,hides any grins. I use buckets 'cause I don't have to tote em around and the're the right for me. Jim
it is always a pleasure to trim over your own framing. or hang doors etc. etc.
-- glad the buckets work for you. I don't carry a bunch of benches to every job, usually just one or two at the most. although once in a giant room with coffered ceilings we did employ four or five at a time to accommodate very long glue-ups.
I wish I could find those photographs -- I think I might have lost them when the computer crashed last.
I like the stain idea and also the 'nipped' nails.
hope you weren't looking for an argument, I'm too lazy today.
but oh, by the way, yesterday I coped some trim I had milled myself using my usual techniques and it was - what's the word? ... perfect.
It's always fun to have a plan come together. I don't get to trim much anymore, mostly just showing sub's how to do it. Like take a 10"nate poly crown and do run splices. p.s. poly glue works great for this. wipe vaseline carefully on just the face so the glue foaming won't stick to the face, then clean up the glue and get all the vaseline off so the paint will. I feel kind of mellow today myself, must be gettin' old Jim
Hey Duey, You've got a ton of great advice here from a lot of very experienced workers; do your best to "see" what they are laying down for you. Just a tip from another one......on standard 90 degree inside corners you can save a ton of time and sometimes a few coping headaches by not coping those cuts....if your dry wall is not to extra heavy in them (they do have a bit of extra there), you cut them at your standard angle and bevel and just move them both up a touch till the cuts come right together ( moving the two up will close the top open gap, or moving them down will close the bottom, though usually it's moving them up because we all naturally start out low and move things up to mark. In general following the ceiling AND wall variations is best, don't just snap a line for perfect straight.....it can be done either way...watch for any short drastic "bumps" (usually in ceilings), they can look like disaster if you don't "see" them and your way thru it. On outside corners I will usually add a half degree or more to my BEVEL to help "close" the joint at the outside of it.
If you have any Odd Angle joints (like 45 degrees insead of the usual 90 degrees), it is definitely best to have the two test-cut boards everyone has mentioned....because of drywall variations, just doing a "mathematical" split never seems to work out right. You will be able to see real close what you will need to adjust on your angle and also your bevel from these. They can be in dispensable on these. Also Starrett makes a basic angle finder to help you judge what you may do. The Bosch deal is very handy, also. When you find what your "down from ceiling" measurement is cut a block with it on both sides so it won't matter which way you pull it out and use it to follow your basic "ceiling line". Your first experience will be trying and scary (maybe) but we all start some place. I like to make my "Field" splices with a 0 degree angle and a 30 degree bevel...wood mill varations aren't so exagerated and they can "slip" into flush line a bit easier, and it doesn't hurt to cut and glue a backer splice block behind your splice on the first piece, then continue on. Luck and Skill to You, ~Zorro~
Edited 1/15/2006 6:08 pm ET by zorrosdens
Edited 1/15/2006 6:13 pm ET by zorrosdens
Duey,
I dont have a lot of experience hanging crown, not a lot of people ask for it, and quite honestly I think stair finish work and math is easier. (Thats coming from a guy with a sculpture degree in his past.)
A couple of things I find helpful:
Cut a test either each time, or one you can hold up and mentally see the proper direction that you need for your corner, once you do that go set your saw. Its easy to mess up because the piece is upside down and backwards, but the cut for a cope is backwards also.
I got a really nice coping saw and had a designer spec poplar. What a nightmare. I couldnt cut through that for anything. I came back the next day with my bosch grinder and a sanding flap wheel. SHORT ORDER of coping. Sneak up on the profile line, then touch with a few files. Oh, use the grinder outside its pretty messy.
-zen
For larger crown I have the Easycope jigs, so that you can use your jigsaw. It works very nicely. I still will use my cope saw, but not on the hardwoods.
good man i use a jig saw for almost all my copes . excption floor shoe
nice to see
you know, methinks we made reference to the same article. Not applicable in my case, as theres already a wimply cornice molding in place.
I too start monday.
My task is to install paintgrade mdf, it's already sprayed to colour and dry and in the truck, layered with rippings of cheapo laminate flooring underlay so that the paint don't burnish or "stick"
The tools is in the truck too. I hope!!!
To start with- enuf tarps to protect the floor, and saw horses to stack the stuff on.
Radio for companionship, as this is a one person job.
Two step ladders....one with a 8'ish support made out of 2x4's with ends covered with foam on the end so I dont damage walls or ceilings, but able to hold the long end while I go up the ladder with the other.
A set of story poles made out of 1/2" aluminium conduit, with couplings made out of dowel covered with copper pipe, so I can go up to the ceiling and take a reading on any distance from 6' to 18', the rest is covered with the tape measure. a pad of paper to make my sketches on.
Biggish bevel gauge for them never square drywall or plaster corners, full range of 18gauge pins (and guns too), obviously compressor, and enuf hose and extension cords. A 23 gauge nailer to hold the exterior mitre together a tad more securely and accurately than tape will do, Chop saw, of course, and my own stand, which gives me 9' either side of the blade of stability from a fence support for this sloppy and floppy stuff, portable dust collector to put behind the saw, and vacuum cleaner too., after all I is cutting inside...,
Two moving van load-supports (they are supposed to mount across the van, ) with one end removed and a plywood and foam-covered support so that I can set one step ladder at one end of the wall, the support at the other, and hopefull use these for interim supports on the long lengths. These are new to me, so although I envision them useful, I could be sadly mistaken.
Two coping saws, one for each end of the mitre stand. Mine are set to cut on the pull, cause that's the way I was taught by my Engish jointer master way back when ...but I do cut from the back, not the front.
I know some folks say you can push a coping saw, but I've heard even more referr to coping saws as toys, and some have even called others idiots of doing it on the pull stroke, and I will confess that there have been rare occassions when I have done this, but for me, it's 99% pull from the back.
I learned long ago that the more you think you know, the more you learn that there is so much more to learn too. I never even thought about pushing a coping saw, and even when I heard about it, I didn't believe it, but when I had to re-cope a half installed molding, well, there's just no other way to do it than on the "push" to the scribed line.
Set of files...flat bastards, round bastards, rat tails, and square files for fine tuning. of coped joints (learned that from FHB way back)
Wood filler (white seamfil) and sand paper and a little touch up spray gun for final finishing. And several tubes of latex caulking as well.....what for I don't know.
There is a laser somewhere in the bubba-mobile, not so much for any planned untility for layout or anything like that, but it's just one of them things that a feller might need to understand why things ain't fitting right. Better to have one than have to go get it . This project is critical-pathed, so I don't want to be wasting time "fetchin" God knows there may be some of that even with all the best planning I can muster.
Good luck to ya big fella!
Eric in Calgary
don't sugar coat it cowtown -- tell it to me straight. I don't know how many tubes of caulk your english jointer master uses, but if you need to caulk your work before the painter gets there, you're doing something wrong.
so if you are pulling from the backside, isn't that exactly the same as pushing from the front, just with more contortionism?
and my 'idiot' comment was in response to being called crazy for cutting on the push --ie: some people are too narrowminded to see options other than the one they were first taught.
Edited 1/17/2006 5:20 am ET by Pete
Pete was sayin....
don't sugar coat it cowtown -- tell it to me straight. I don't know how many tubes of caulk your english jointer master uses, but if you need to caulk your work before the painter gets there, you're doing something wrong.
'''''''''''''
unless you is also the painter, and you is already there.....and want the job to look good..... 1/2 rm of 7 left to go at quitting time tonight.
Count yerself lucky if you've never had a painter turn a whole house of new mill work to trash. As well, every time I see some trim carpenter setting 10 pins when two will do, I pity the painter that has to fill all those holes. I often times simply do the finishing not only out of a "risk managment" perspective, but also I find a lot of clients just want a "one-stop" job, not co-ordinate it with two, three, or four trades. Until you have to paint out a job, a feller ain't ever gonna have an overall understanding of the total process.
You'll laugh when the one item I usually carry in the truck wasn't there despite my planning....a work light. Duh. Hard to work in the dark.
............................................
Pete also asked....."so if you are pulling from the backside, isn't that exactly the same as pushing from the front, just with more contortionism?"
...............................
Except that generally the coping saw frames (I preferr the Sandvik orange handle ones) ain't really substantial enuf to support regular pushing. You bend and break more blades pushing rather than pulling.
and Pete also said...."and my 'idiot' comment was in response to being called crazy for cutting on the push --ie: some people are too narrowminded to see options other than the one they were first taught."
My English master never used caulk, and he also never taught me how to make or fit circular moulding. I learned the caulking tips from professional painters., but then again he and I never put up crown molding either way back then it was usually baseboards. I guess when I figure out how to post pictures, and you see my kludgy chop stand saw stand, you'll see why I figure it is actually less contortionism and less work for me to cope from the back....
hey, I know where yer comin from bout never trying anything new . I sometimes turn my hacksaw around and cut on the pull, in the teeth reversed position when I'm cutting aluminium weatherstrip. Stupid thing to do but it works for me.
Incidently, putting this crown mold stuff in place, most folks is likely are using an 18 gauge nailer, but after a few hours on this job, I tried my (realtively new to me) 23 gauge nailer. This stuff is going into plaster and lathe (and ya, there is substatially more lack-of-flatitude than drywall) so I figure I've got about an 80% chance of hitting some kind of backing lathe- I did give up on the studfinder) and you know, I could mount and hold in place 13' lengths with a few pins straight into the wall and straight up. I could get a whole room set in place, and then use the 18gauge to set it firmly. It suprised me, and if you've never used a 23 gauge nailer, the nail holes is gonna be practically invisible once the t/u's get done. I'm thinking that the 23 gauge will be useful for hardwood mouldings too.
The stuff I'm using is MDF, and sometimes when yer rolling up the corners or whatever, a piece chips out, and the 23 gauge lets you glue it back and hold it in place while you go on working, or else recut another piece. Try that with an 18 gauge brad!!
Eric in Cowtown
you know pete, I got to room 7, and the longest piece, and I cannot figure if I just got lazy, or intelligent. Anyway, I got it up and in place with just my 23 ga nailer, and them brads are wimpy enuf that you can slide it a tad once you start fitting it.
This was into plaster and lathe, so there was blocking of a sort behind most pins
Any of them folks what hang a LOT of crown tried just using 23 guage pins (makes finishing a lot easier!)
I DID secure it in with 18 gauge, but got to wondering if 23 gauge would be enuf , particularly with caulking top and bottom edges.
That longest piece was one I didn't plan on... even though I knew it was there, when I set up my chop saw stand, I needed 19' clear on either side, which I didn't allow for, and had to move and realign the chopsaw stand for that last piece.
Now there's a tidbit of advice to pay attention to - set up yer chop saw at the start to allow for the longest piece. Duh, makes so much sense now.
In the past I have used brush to TU the nail holes, but this time I tried spray. Much faster, and no mess, even though it was air. Tape with paper on the bottom edge, shield for the ceiling. Gonna talk to my spray gurus to see if there's a really small AND quiet airless to do the task next time though.
so I attached three images here...
One is my kludgy home-made chop saw fence (this is the second iteration), then there's a shot of my installation set up, and then there's an "I don't know if you can see enuf detail" shot of my aluminium story stick.....
Eric
19 feet is a big stick to hang by yourself -- but I see your helper. I had a couple of those once , I think they developed legs.
yeah, hindsight is 20/20 but those lessons are the learned the best.
hey ya know I used to live in banff?
Have you used a Paslode for crown?
I love mine, especially when I'm climbing up and down ladders- no hose to get in the way.
They cost a little more to run, but I think the convenience more than makes up for it.
Got some crown to put up tomorrow, and I'll be using my Paslode.
hey, betcha you'll be filling twice as many holes as I had to once I started to get confident with the 23 gauge.....
Went back to pick up the cheque, and was informed that the clients apparent upscale designer (ain't they all!) was impressed.
Nice to get compliments, even if ya ain't sure they is from competent folks. Ain't it.
Eric
Edited 2/2/2006 12:06 am ET by cowtown
Filling holes?
That's the painter's job!
I sometimes caulk the crown against the wall and ceiling, especially in occupied homes. But I can't remember the last time I puttied nail holes on a job.
And yeah, it is nice to get a compliment. But it's nice to get the check, too.
Duey,
If you haven't done this before, buy some cheap primed pine and practice first. It may take you a few tries to get the cope right and there is little sense in throwing away a nice piece of Oak each time.
Probably the most often made mistake is not getting enough back cut on the cope.
If you cut your cope and then hold the Crown on your saw table as if the saw table was the wall, look straight down at the cope. All you should see is the edge of the face, none of the material from behind it. I'm not sure that makes sense but it works.
If the crown is large you will need blocking. Regular 3 5/8" crown may not need blocking. Usually you can nail into the double plates at the wall ,ceiling intersection.Try it with a nail first. If you need blocking, cut a 2x4 at 38° or what ever the spring angle is.The blocks should be a 1/8" smaller than the actual size needed.This allows for cutting discrepancies and wall imperfections.
After cutting the inside miter,cope it out with a saber saw.I use a 14 tooth or finer blade. Clamp piece to fence. Set the saw base flat on the profile cut,this will automatically cope back 45°.Cut as close to the line as you feel comfortable with without butchering the edge. Finish with sand paper sticks and files. I make a couple of sticks with adhesive backed sandpaper to fine tune the cope, for me it works better than files or rasps.
practice coping on short pieces first.
mike
The blocks should be a 1/8" smaller than the actual size needed.This allows for cutting discrepancies and wall imperfections.
Does this mean the crown never actually touches the blocks, just the nails are hitting it?
Yes, if you cut the blocking exactly you'll run into problems trying to get the crown tight to the wall and ceiling. Even if the gap is a 1/4" , won't make any difference. If you do not need blocking ,the distance between the back of the crown and the wall will be even greater. I use 2 1/2" nails so that any place I nail will hit wood backing or the wall plates or studs.
I should of mentioned that you only need blocking on 32" centers. I put a dab of panel adhesive and 1 screw to fasten the blocking to the wall. Make sure you keep the blocking about 12" from each inside corner, if it is too close the opposite piece of crown won't go up.If there is a need to place blocking where there is no stud, then use two screws with the adhesive.The screws will hold the blocking until the adhesive dries.
mike
I read the same article. I've done it a few different ways and found this technique to be the best. By the way, you can usually get two backer pieces out of one 2x4. At least if the crown is 3 1/4 or smaller. Also nail the butt end in on the one wall prior to making the measurement of the coped end meeting it on the adjacent wall or you'll have a gap.
Good Luck
Kevin
I'm sure this too late to help, but it might help others. The larger the handle on your coping saw the easier it will be on and in your hand (at least this was very true for me). I first bought a good coping saw at Depot, but after a hard and intense day of baseboard, my hand was a bit sore and aching. I could tell this was caused from hand fatigue from that saw handle size. The next time I was in a store I looked at what I could find, I came across a Stanley with a much larger (larger than many more expensive ones also)....this is totally my favorite. They're easier to steer.
Edited 1/20/2006 12:04 am ET by zorrosdens
Edited 1/21/2006 12:02 am ET by zorrosdens
To everyone,
Thanks to everyone who posted advice to my question! The crown was only 3 1/4" and I did apply some of the advice I got here. Things went very well. I have only done about half of it yet, with the big half remaining. I saw a couple more techniques here this morning which look worth trying! You guys helped me out a lot!
One other question I have is this. Is it easier to use a regular miter saw with the crown upside down and backwards(which I did), or is it easier to use a compound miter saw and cut it laying flat(which I may try this week). I just bought a Bosch 10" sliding compound miter saw three weeks ago, but I was hesitant to try it because I am so much more familiar with my old Ridgid. I guess I should just try it and see how it goes. I would be interested in hearing from those of you who have used both, and how you would compare them! Thanks again to all of you for the help!
Duey
Whichever saw you use, if you can dependably and safely "bed" your moulding on your fence (as it would sit angled on the wall, but upsidedown), it makes life very simple. Especially when you want to do alittle different angle setting than your theoritical inside and outside 90's.
If you ever get into 45 degree corners and such, in theory you should be able to "do the math". As in if you're using a compound saw and you have to cut your stock laying flat on the table, for a crown that springs out from the wall 45 degrees, a typical set up would be 35 degrees on the table and 30 degrees on your bevel of your saw. For that 45 degree wall (1/2 of 90 degree), halve your setting; 17 1/2 degree/table, 15 degree/bevel (in all the ones I've come to, that seems to NEVER perfectly endup falling on the crown wall line, it ends too high; so I usually start with a degree or two LESS table angle than the math says). Yet it will ALWAYS be BEST and leave LESS wasted wrong fits, due to errors that you can't see for the actual "field-fit", to use a couple of test pieces to lock in on your actual needed cuts, in these "special" angled walls.
So use an angle finder, and if you can; cutting with the crown in the "bedded" position on your saw is very easy and you'll get great joints, especially if your lengths are accurate. Sounds like you got it going good.
Another tip, if you flat cut, on your outside corners put a spot more bevel on the cut to help close up the points of your pieces. This helps with all drywall associated areas and mouldings.
Edited 1/21/2006 12:32 pm ET by zorrosdens
Edited 1/22/2006 8:55 am ET by zorrosdens
check this out http://www.fastcap.com