I am getting a good start on this oak stairway. It has a rather large outside radius of 139 inches. 17 steps….just a basic …slightly larger than average.
Stan
I am getting a good start on this oak stairway. It has a rather large outside radius of 139 inches. 17 steps….just a basic …slightly larger than average.
Stan
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Replies
Looks like a dragons tail!View Image
Edited 2/13/2007 9:55 pm ET by DougU
Do you build new walls for each set of stairs that you make at your shop?
Your work has fascinated me once again.The bad news is you've done exactly the right things to be exactly where you are today. "IdahoDon 1/31/07"
Each stairway has to have a wall built to its radius....I reuse the studs...throw away the plates..
Stan
ever tried metal flex plates made for wood or metal studs. you could reuse them and save time and money. more time to fly! more money for fuel to fly!
Mike: They would work on the bottom screwed to the plywood on the floor...but I dont see how they would work as top plates holding the curvature? It really doesnt take but an hour to cut the plates out ...and it costs one sheet of 3/4 plywood.
Stan
I put in the treads and risers yesterday and today. Heres some pictures.
Stan
Nice work Stan.
I was wondering how you fasten the riser to the open stringer? Is that something you can pocket screw also?
Thanks, Mike
That is coool! always wanted to see some pictures of that kinda of work during the building stage.
hope you don't mind a couple of newbie type questions.....
1: how did you learn to do that kinda work?
2:how long does it take to do a job like that?
3: the stringers are laminated right? does the outside radius get mortised before or after it is curved?
4: do you use a jig for all your cuts?
5: are they always pre assembled and delivered as a unit?
6: what do you price a job like that, and where do you live?
Hope you don't mind the questions, I'd love to be able to attempt something like that one day. is that kinda of work something any skilled carpenter can tackle or should one actually learn it from someone?
Edited 2/16/2007 6:45 am ET by alrightythen
I taught myself....just had a passion for it.
It takes a while to build one...each one is different.
The price I never discuss....sorry....this prevents the two comments...you are too cheap...you are too expensive. Its probably somewhere between those two...ok? ha
The stringers are laminated and get mortised afterwards.
I deliver these already built. Only once did I assemble one on the jobsite...and that was because it was too big to haul down the road if I built it. I assembled it in my shop...disassembled it and reassembled it onsite. That procedure added thousands to the price of the stairway....and I dont mind doing the extra work if I am paid well for doing it.
Too many people do not know how to charge enough for their work.
Stan
thanks for the reply, I appreciate your answers to my questions. I can also appreciate you not wanting to give your price. I personally would not critique your price in any way. I simply am wondering what one can expect to pay for stairs like that. would you be able to give a ball park range on curved stairs in general. what is a general price range. $5,000 - $20,000? depending on stair. I really have no clue.
also do you price a stair the way one might any other job. estimate for time, plus cost of materials?
when you router the stringer, is it tricky dealing with the curves? I'm guessing you use a jig both for cuts and for routering, am I right?
when you say self taught, were there any good books that you used for reference? if so can you recommend any?
again, sorry for all the Q's, appreciate your time to respond. I would definately love to do some curved stairs them the chance arrives. Thanks also for posting the pics, never seen pics of curved stairs in progress before.
When I bid a stair....I figure the materials to my shop..and double that.
I figure X # of dollars per day to build the stair times the days I think it will take...being conservative.
I add to that a cushion of around 25% extra time.
To that I add a bonus to Stan....a "carrot" so to speak of a generous self tip.
When this is all figured...and I get the job...I dont have to go at it like I am killing snakes....
Should I really have blundered and my materials cost twice as much.....and I took twice as long as expected...I still will make money on the job.
This I know probably isnt a fancy accounting method..but it works for me and I am slow to change.
The curved stringers are routed with just a scrap of mdf...or particle board or even 3/4 inch plywood without voids. The back is kerfed to accomodate the curvature. In severe cases I even warp the baseplate on my router so it nestles in to my jig better.
I have tried to buy every stairbook out there...and just average out the different techniques. However....I have my own personal way that a lot of is not found in a book. Improvising is a tough skill....but once honed is a necessity.
All my stairs are in the 5 figure range.....one was in 6 figures. I know that doesnt narrow it down much....but thats just the way I am.....sorry....
Stan
Edited 2/17/2007 8:00 am ET by StanFoster
thanks again for tips Stan. don't be sorry, that gives me an idea...they cost a lot. your method for estimating is very helpful.
PS look forward to seeing more of your pics.
Stan Have you ever thought of holding an un-offical class on stair building, you know for us breaktimers. Maybe a weekend thing. You dont have to give away all of your secrets. You could charge a nice little fee for attendance. Where do you live? just want to see if I could ever dream of it hapening , and you could also consider it a little fest!!!
Edited 2/17/2007 4:46 pm ET by kayaker
kayaker: I couldnt charge breaktimers....I wouldnt think that many would be interested. I probably have revealed 90% of what I know over the years I have posted here. There are many here on this forum who know a lot more about their area of expertise...I am sure. I am still training myself. Maybe by the time I retire I will half way have it figured out.....Then I may be qualified to hold a stairbuilding forum. Right now...I need to be in attendance out in the audience.
Stan
I think that I smell false humility here. You are more than qualified, but if you don't think so then I nominate your place for the next fest! I am a trim carpenter here in Michigan and I have worked on a few curved staircases that were built in place, but they were not free floating-open on the bottom like yours. I would love to learn some more tricks and skills. Guess I will be searching the archives.
Kayaker: Seriously and at the threat of digging myself into a deeper hole.....I might be able to build these curved stairways...but they arent anything extra ordinary as far as fit and finish. I have seen better displays of workmanship in the cabinet projects...mantles...etc. posted here from time to time.
I dont feel its false humility....I have a lot to learn myself and I am serious. I would just as soon quit posting than to have that label on me.
My equipment is next to zilch in my shop. I have had guys come in and kind of snort at what little equipment I have. I have never run a lathe...a cnc router...so....I am not qualified in many areas that others here are well versed in.
Stan
Edited 2/18/2007 11:16 am ET by StanFoster
stan... i think your work is gorgeous.. and i hope i'm not going to offend anyone when i say i think i know what you mean about the joinery...
<<<but they arent anything extra ordinary as far as fit and finish. I have seen better displays of workmanship in the cabinet projects...mantles...etc. posted here from time to time.>>
i feel much the same about a lot of the trim work we do.. it's very pleasing to the eye and the hand.. but good cabinet makers would look at our stuff and say... harrummpph !
what i've found is there is a nice level of finish work in trim that is above average in quality and if we try to work within our limitations we can give our customers a lot of satisfaction
if i employed cabinet makers and joiners.. or if i even indulged some of my guys in their desire for "perfection" we'd be out of business in a New York minute
one of the things i strive for is consistency in the fits and finish.. like everything is going according to plan
i get that feeling from your work.. good quality, good design, good plan, good execution = great jobMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Right arm Mike!!!
Most customers can't afford absolutely flawless joinery...
and flawless imuch easier to achieve in a shop on a small piece...
How many dozens of times have you seen a piece in FWW that took 2000 hours to make??
that much labor could build a pretty good size house...
but not with the same fit and finish...
It aint a piany...I don't feel safe in this world no more I don't want to die in a nuclear war I want to sail away to a distant shore and make like an ape man
Stan once again your work blows me away.....
Every time I see photos of your excellent work, I promise myself to make time to go to my stair guy's shop; Great guy, his situation ( and attitude ) are a lot like yours ( downplays the whole thing, small shop, self & father taught). Every staircase he puts in for me, he invites me down to the shop so I can see the latest project...... I'm going to try to go see it this week.
Whenever I start to feel a litttle too talented, I see a good stair guys work, and go back to feeling like a shlub ;) thanks a lot................I have to go call my shrink......
Bing
Bing: YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!
Once in awhile I get to thinking I am very proficient at my trade...and then I go to some of the huge stair hatcheries in Chicago. I am blown away everytime....and come back feeling about knee high to a mouse.
But it makes me try harder....and I will say I am proud of what I do with so little equipment.
Now to slap myself on the back...sure...I am very satisfied with what I can improvise out of my waste pile to make necessary jigs for the task at hand.
Stan
you won't give prices cause you don't want any of us to know how much $$ you make doing the easy stuff!!!
;)I don't feel safe in this world no more I don't want to die in a nuclear war I want to sail away to a distant shore and make like an ape man