Hi guys.
How about the easiest way to cut compound jack rafters with a bevel of approx 63 degrees?
I’m pretty good with a chainsaw, but a compound cut like this taxes my abilities!
Will the larger DeWalt or Makita sliders cut a 60 degree bevel?
We tried a jig for the 7 1/4 circ, but the blade just isn’t long enough to make the cut.
Any help would be appreciated!
Replies
First make a cut on your "long Point Line" with tha blade at 90º.
Then set bevel to 27º (90º-63º)
Then cut again with your base on the end grain suface produced by the first cut.
[An 8-1/4" or 10" saw will help but a 7-1/4 will work.]
Finish the cut with a sawzall or a hand saw.
Clean up any lumps with a block plane, a chisel or a utility knife( depending on how anal you are)
Mr T
Happiness is a cold wet nose
Life is is never to busy to stop and pet the Doggies!!
Mr T - Yep... that's the way to do it.
Cut a few before the rain started this morning. Easy as pie.
About high time I bought a bigger saw though... finishing the cut with the recip is pain!
Thanks for the tip.
I use an electric chainsaw for those guys. Easy to control, especially with a good, sharp chain. Make your plumb cut at 90 deg. then mark your bevel, stand the board on edge (clamp it in position) and use your long point edge as the vertical guide.
Piece of cake!
You sound like a log dog Notchman. :)
So far we have been making the cuts with a chainsaw, although we have been making the bevel as deep as we could with the 10" slider set at 50 degrees first.
The first attempts resulted in pieces flying towards the operator when cutting from the bottom of the bar, or flying towards the person holding the rafter when using the top of the bar.
I finally settled on doing some combination brushing followed by a little top bar planing to clean up the cut. The cuts aren't too bad, but I'd still rather make 'em with a circ saw.
and, after all, one of our favorite sayings is "A carpenter got no biz 'ness usin' a chainsaw!"
Thanks for the feedback guys - I think we'll get a fresh start on monday morning and try out the opposing angle circ cut from the end of the jack.
Go with the Circular saw. Safer and in My opinion easier. Thats how I always do it. Just be carefull if you haven't done it before. At the very end the saw can fall away a bit.
I hate to see a chainsaw on a job. just flat refuse to do it. Probably costs me money but i'm stubborn like that.
I've used both methods and the decision is usually based on my mood that day. It also depends on the depth of the rafter and how sharp the chainsaw happens to be that day. A power planer cleans up the chainsaw cut nicely. Have fun and get your goggles out!
ian
i would use my bigfoot 10" circular saw with the swing table attachment in place of the standard table.
the bigfoot is a standard skilsaw with a kit added and features a 10" blade, and the swing table is yet another accessory for the bigfoot, allowing you to cut angle's way past 63. i have heard them talked about here at breaktime before now and pet this is an excellent excuse to purchase one. they sell them at orco cons. supply, (about $400) and probably have them in stock, although you will probably have to order the swing table through orco.
where do you live? you may be able to find a breaktimer close enough to you to make a few cuts. i am in norcal.
Yeah, i was looking at the Makita 16" saw. However, we're closing up shop and heading down to sunny florida in a couple months, and I hear all they do are trusses down there. So anyway, the LOML has put a moratorium on new tool purchases :)
Now THAT'S a shock to the system!
Going to Fla, eh? I haven't been there since the early 70's, but built about 300 houses in Winter Haven and there was nary a truss to be seen
Pet,
Left Florida in 1986. Family Framing business. Framed around 200 a year. Never a rafter. Always trusses. However in some places they are building nice big houses that require conventional roofs.
Why Florida? Great place to live. Not such a great place to make a living.
I hope you're wrong but...
We looked through the online versions of several local papers in the Tampa region.
Over 45 listings for "Carpenters" in one weekly paper.
The Sunday version of a different paper (perhaps the Tampa Tribune, I can't remember) had 64 listings with either "Carpenter" or "Framer" as a job title.
Recent estimates from a major manufactured lumber company indicated that the next 4 years will see over 200,000 new homes in the Tampa area.
Besides, we've been running our own business for a decade or so now - I'm a firm believer that I will find work wherever we go!
Now if I could just find a way to beat the oppressing heat!
Pet,
Lived on the North Side of Tampa. It isn't all bad. When I lived there Framers got .75 a foot. It had gone up to about $1.05 when we had left. It can Be a real rollercoaster there.
I ran a crew there and got $8.00 an hour. I moved North and got $15.00 for the same work. the cost of living isn't nearly as different as people want to believe. But, as I've said, that was almost 20 years ago.
As for the heat, Start early, Knock off early. We used to start around 6 am and go home arounud 2:30. Besides, in the rainy season that will usually get you in the truck before the rain starts. It only lasts about 20 or 30 min's but damn is it suffocating afterwards.
Not sure where your from but they do things a lot different there than here. You might want to work for someone for a while and get a feel for whats different. Should only take a few months. If not you my end up costing yourself money. Do you know how to tilt-up? Sheathing the walls and putting on the gables and even framed chimnies? Might come in handy.
Greatest beaches I've ever been to. Cheap beer and wings too.
Good luck! I seldom admit it but I miss the beach and riding my motorcycle all year long.
Lastly, Don't take the woodshed Personal. I don't. But, when it comes to polotics, I would argue with my dog.
I hear you on the arguing thing... but that's why I usually stay away from the woodshed! No harm no foul.
At any rate - I work on log homes, but there are always framed sections and we always build 'em on the deck - we've sheathed, log sided and glazed walls before we stood them.
I haven't done any production framing in about 15 years, but we still use the same techniques now. I was going to do exactly what you suggested... just sign on with a crew for a month or two and see how they do things down there.
Besides, I still have to pass the Florida licensing exam before I can strike out on my own. Once I take the test in August, we'll get our biz accounts open with the yards down there and start hustling the big home builders around town for some sub contract work.
If all else fails, we'll just start doing the remodel thing down there. There is always money to be made remodeling - I just don't like the stress that goes along with it!
Thanks for the input.
Pet,
My father has a license. Before you leave get three letters of recommendation from people you have done work for. I know you used to able to work as a sub with a subcontractors license. In order to get one you needed the Licensed contractors to signt that they have seen your work and approve. Or, if you're from out of state, Provide three refrences regarding your work. Might have changed but I doubt it.
The test is a bear. My father passed his first time out. Within a week of the results being published we got around ten calls a day from people who wanted to hire him or pay him for the use of his licnese.
We never had much luck with the remodeling thing. But if thats what it comes to I wish you luck.
Ahhh... that sucks. The subcontractor thing.
I was scheduled to take the exam this week, but delayed because I didn't think I'd need a license to subcontract. I'm trying to get stuff wrapped up here and couldn't afford the loss of time.
Ah well, with a doctor's excuse the exam place will let me reschedule for August - at least we'll be down there by that time.
I'm a little worried about the exam - it's been a long time since I took a test about anything!
Thanks for the info.
So long as you show up with Three letters of reference regarding your work. Thats how it used to be anyway.
a few places offer study course. Might be worth looking inot. It used to be an open book test. No need to memorize. Just need to know where to look. Don't know if it has changed or not.
I do know that a guy with a Class A license could make a comfortable living working for someone else back then
What type of contracting do you expect to do once you come to our fine sunny state?
There are rules, you know, that don't follow what you may be used to where you are now.
I would suggest you go online to the FL statutes and look up Chapter 489 which governs contracting in FL.
Florida has no reciprocity agreement with any other state, therefore your current licensing and experience, and a buck, will get you a cup of coffee.
If you want to work as a framing contractor, you will most likely work under the license of a GC and will be able to obtain an occupational license for just that purpose. However, before you do that, as opposed to being a straight employee, you should be familiar with the requirements the state has for construction type businesses. You just can't hang out your shingle without jumping through all the hoops and shelling out the bucks.
You mention taking a state exam. There are a bunch of them. You don't want to take one which will limit your ability to function in the construction game. If you want to eventually act as a remodeler, the least certiicate you should hold would be the Certified Residential Contractor. That limits you to residential, period. If you think you might do some commercial buildouts or whatever commercial, the minimum state license should be Certified Building Contractor. The top license would be Certified General Contractor, an unlimited (to a point) certification.
Your financial situation is paramount when going for a license. You will be required to show a certain minimum net worth which will include cash, verified in writing by your financial institution. The amounts vary according to the license you are going for.
The state tests are open book. The problem there is that the tests are written by god knows who and answers will be book specific. That means if the answer is (a) from book 1 and (b) from book 2 and (c) from book 3, you must be able to determine which book the queston came from. All 3 answers will be technically correct but you're screwed if you don't get the answer the question writer wanted.
From your posting I get the impression that you have a licensed contractor here in Florida who will sign off on your qualifications and you also have the time in experience or formal education to otherwise qualify to sit for the test.
Welcome to Florida. My brother and I worked the Tampa area back in the mid 80's. Another brother is still there but works for a concrete contractor across the bay. I can't give you any insight regarding working conditions or opportunities since I'm in a different part of the state.
Thanks for the input Ralph.
Your post pretty much parallels what I've found out. The testing site lists the exact testing material required, and while it's been a few years since college, I think I can manage to fight my way through an open book test based upon an industry that I've been involved with for 15 years or so now.
Great point about the specific testing though - I'm all signed up for the CRC, so I have to take that particular test, although it may be beneficial to get the CBC so that my commercial options are open.
I've studied the Florida State testing and licensing web site, and am having trouble finding the "Contractor Reference," information. Another breaktimer, brb, mentioned referrals as well.
I'm not exactly sure what you guys are referring to. I provide all my clients with an extensive (10-15 client) reference sheet with each quote, but those references are from past jobs, not from other contractors. Are you saying that I need to get contractors in Florida to write me references in order to get licensed? That'll be a little tough, as we haven't done any work in Florida yet :)
Do you have any further insight into the whole reference process? That seems to be the only hurdle we face right now. The state credit and financial check and the state licensing / testing seem to be pretty straight forward.
I did some checking and the way I went through the process and the current process are slightly different.
You (anyone) can now sign up to sit for the test and then followup later on the licensing. Previously it was all lumped into one painful endeavor.
You should call and change your testing preference from CRC to CBC because if you ever want to do commercial work you will have to retest to upgrade. You want to avoid that if possible. Upgrading to CGC from CBC doesn't require retesting. You won't be able to do a lick of commercial work without at least the CBC license.
To find the requirements for initial licensure go to http://www.myflorida.com click on licenses and permits, find construction industry licensing board (CILB) and click on the DPBR/CILB form 4359. Pages 4 and 5 will tell you the requirements.
Florida has one of the 3 toughest tests in the nation, along with NY and CA (so they tell me where I take my continuing education classes). The test is not just on technical knowledge but also on finance and law and business.
Since you are taking the test in Orlando you might want to consider taking a review class before the test. 4 days of review, including all the books you will need is $995. I don't have any financial interest in this but I would hate to see you blow it for lack of preparation. It's up to you. (Yep, this business will somehow cost you before you start bringing home the bacon).<G>
For more information on that you can call 800-741-7277 (AAA School). Let them explain, in detail, what you will need to accomplish in order to eventually gain a license here in FL.
Good luck,
Ralph
Ralph,
When we moved to Florida in the 70's almost no one passed the test unless they had taken a study course.
I'm not sure if it still hold true, But back then you could get an Occupational lic. and Sub as framer if 1. Three lic. Contractors signed for you. 2. you could prove you had just moved there and could provide three letters of reference regarding your work. Don't know if that still holds true.
My father holds a florida lic. and I know he signed for more than a few people.
I suppose I need to take a course then. Although the testing is only $138 a pop, I could take it quite a few times for the $999.00 course fee!
I wonder if the courses include the books.
We have been getting tons of mail from all the "licensing schools," some of them list just the books for the test at $700.00.
That's more than entire semesters of books cost me in college!
Ah well, the price of doing business.
I know people who went throught the courses and still couldn't pass the tests. They may have been fine as framers or at other portions of the overall trade(s), but they couldn't grasp the finer points of law, finance and running a business. Or of test taking.
You can apply for an occupational license for anything as long as you can sign your name and have the fees.
You can then work as a framer or at any of the trades AS LONG AS YOU ARE WORKING UNDER A LICENSED PERSONS' LICENSE. So Petmonkey can hang out a shingle as a framer and open his business. He just can't do it unless he subs for the LICENSED PERSON (Company).
Another thing about the construction industry in Florida. If you hang out your shingle you will have to have the liability insurance as well as Worker's Comp. Commercial liability is not too bad but Worker's Comp will eat you alive. Even as a sole proprietor and the only person in your company you will be required to carry Comp. Used to be you could file for an exemption - cost you $50, renewable every two years. Now, if you want to avoid the monetary bite - a REALLY BIG BITE - you have to incorporate and file for the exemption as an officer of the corporation.
Then you got paperwork and fees out the wazoo (mostly paperwork) with you being an employee of your own corporation. In spite of the fees and the federal and state ongoing paperwork there are benefits to incorporation. Get with an accountant for the juicy details.
Petmonkey, the books ARE included with the 4 day prep course.
Just for your peace of mind, call the 800 number I posted and grill the person on the other end of the line. It's easier for you to get that free education over the phone than for me to type all night. Don't forget to call and change the type of test you are taking. You don't want to take it again if you don't have to.
Keep in touch.
brb.........
I've also signed for some, but I've known them and their abilities. One is not so hot in the technical end but he's got his sh!t together as a businessman and runs a company with good tradesmen and subs.
I asked a friend, who has a framing company, what he would pay a guy who knows what he is doing, has tools and can run a crew. $15 per hour max.
Well things change. I know getting refrences was a big deal being from out of state. No Lic. until he got them. But your right, He did have to work under the Lic. Contractor or builder.
It's amazing how many people showed up at the door when he got his lic. All looking ofr a signature. Most left emptyhanded.
$15.00 an hour? It can't be that much cheaper to live there than here.
Thanks for the info Ralph....
OUCH! 15 bucks a hour??!! for a lead carpenter? That makes my eye twitch :)
As far as the license exam course goes... I was just thinking out loud I guess. I'd have to fail the exam a few times before I'd even consider taking the course.
My plan was to take the exam once and see which portions (if any) I passed. Then, once I had determined the areas that were the most difficult, I was planning on purchasing the books -- outlining them and taking the exam again.
I'm not really sweating the test portion -- I managed to BS my way through 4 years of college with a solid 3.5, and I'm not exactly what you'd call a "studier."
At any rate, I WAS planning on working for someone else until I obtained my license and got our marketing / advertising in order and got some good contacts with the major home builders in the area. Your figure of 15$ per hour is a little scary though :)
And let's not talk about worker's comp! Although a lot of guys around this neck of the woods don't even carry comp on their employees, we've ALWAYS carried it. It makes me a little irate that some of my competitors pay their employees as "subcontractors," and conveniently avoiding the cost of workers comp and the other associated expenses that come with operating above board. And yet we all still charge approximately the same labor rates. So the legitimate business person ends up getting screwed!
ummmm... sorry, off on a tangent.
Hey, anyway... thanks again for the info Ralph. We just got ANOTHER license course package in the mail again today. I'm going to call the exam place tomorrow and change from residential to commercial.
Sure, just build yourself a plus wedge..
Take a scrap of wood & cut it at say 13 degrees. then set your saw for fifty degrees. 50+13 +63 = degrees.
Now set a saw horse out at the angle that you need and screw a stop block into it so you aren't running back and for adjusting everything and slide your rafter to the stop block cut and presto! repeat as needed!