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I’m building a pole building, using treated 6X6’s and have been planning to cut them before I add my collar ties. I’d been planning to use my chain saw, but wondered if there is a better cutting device. I’ve got more than 30 of these suckers to cut
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Dear Warner,
Rent a 10" or 16" circular saw. 10" if you are going to cut them in place, 16" on horses. A Prazi beam
cutter attachment for your circular saw works very
well if you have very good control of your saw.
A chain saw with a sharp blade will do fine for a pole barn but cutting them in place requires a
special hand. Maybe get the poles in and call in a
tree service to finish the job safely.
Good luck, Cal
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Hi Warner, I'm probably going to hear some negativity on this, but here goes. I've had to install rough cedar log posts for a decorative rustic look for wrap around porches on two new homes. I've found that a good sharp handsaw, yes handsaw, to work the best. Tried using a chain saw, but found it to be very inaccurate. I realize that a porch post needs to be cut with more precision than what you might need for your project, but it really wasn't that bad using a handsaw. The posts I had to install averaged about 8" in diameter and it took me about 1-1/2 days to install 34 of them by myself. Sure did get alot of ribbing about the method; however, I didn't ruin any posts and I did get some exercise.
*WHAT!!!Somebody else STILL uses a HANDSAW??Don't you know those type of tools are supposed to be kept under glass! In the same breakfront as Grandma's good china or in their own dedicated curio cabinet.
*Hey, come to think of it, I think my Dad has a handsaw! ;-}Warner, whack 'em off with your chainsaw.
*MDM,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*I cut 6x6's all the time to build decks. I either use an 8 1/4 circular saw( two passes), or just use the 7 1/4 and finish the cut up with a good handsaw.
*Hand saws are the bomb. If you guys got your saws jointed, set and sharpened you might like em too. The Docking saw I mentioned over in tools is perfect for this application.Still my Stihl would get that particular job. A ten inch skil saw on a ladder leaning against a post sounds like a job as a New York City Cabbie. But I never ran a ten inch skil saw so what do I know.joe d
*Ralph,A good Disston D-8, 8 point crosscut. Great tool. I have an extensive Disston handsaw collection. My pride and joy is my Disston #43. I wouldn't cut wood with it (it was made in 1890). The handsaw is a lost art. You oughta see my Tyzack brass backed back saw. Or my D-95 Masterpiece, and the London 12's..........Man, you oughta see my Disston #9 Improved.......Ed. Williams
*Ed,So, you got a coupla saws, huh.I've got my grandfathers 8pt. Disston, the one with the curved back. My brother has some others and my dad has the rest. Never looked to see what they were.Have you ever had a cross-cutting contest? I can, usually, cut a fair line but one of the tales told about my grandfather was his ability to cut, without benefit of a scribed line, a perfectly square cut across a 1x12. Won all the cutting contests. Anybody want to try this at the Shin Dig?Ralph
*...you've got to stage your purlin locations on the walls anyways so you can set your roof sytem..after you have your staging in place, cut your 6x6 in place with a 10"... ours is a Milwaulkee...one pass for 4x4.. two passes for 6x6...the staging is the key to safety and production..
*If the post ends won't be where everybody's gonna see em'. Like 20 feet up in the air, I cut four sides with my 7-1/4" saw. This leaves a little square of wood about 3/4" still attached which breaks right off with a hammer.
*Ralph, your posting made me think of a story. My Dad worked for an old capenter when he was a kid, back in the 30s and 40s. He told me once that when the carpenter scribed a line across a board, that line was centered on where he wanted it cut. He expected his helpers to cut off half the mark, and leave the other half. (With a handsaw)I'm not sure I could do that...............
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Warner,
We leave the posts full length until after we attach the trusses and purlins. We take a builder's level in the center of the building and shoot the mark where the trusses will be attached. We then nail a 2x6 "tie" down the interior length of the building on both sides to set the trusses on. We attach the trusses with some 4" pole barn nails and then use a couple of 1/2 x 8 " galvaninzed carriage bolts through the truss heel into the pole. After the purlins are set we take an electric chain saw and cut the top of the pole to match the roof pitch. Keep the cut as close as possible to the top of purlins so birds can't build nest on top of the poles.
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Perfect excuse to get the big Makita 16-5/16" circular saw.Add in tool crib says will 90deg. cut 6-3/16" and 4-3/16 at 45deg. I'd call for the recond. price. I've been wanting that saw ever since I'd seen it! So far, no excuse! Jeff
*Scott - I know this is a popular practice, but it's not enough to support most pole barn trusses, unless they're pretty small. Trusses need to be notched into the post for adequate support.
*Ron,Could you explain what you mean and tell us why? I'm not sure I get it. Trusses on a house don't have to be notched into the studs.
*...here's a typical.. 24x36 with a light storage 2d floor.... 4x6 .060 posts @ 6' OC, top purlins 2x8 in and out.... 2d floor joists 2x8 @ 16 " OC..if the rafters sit on the purlins , they get tied in with Simpson h2.5 clips... same with any trusses..some of this is different from common pole barn construction ,, the main thing being , we use a conventional roof frame instead of the more conventional truss @ 4' OC, with roof purlins and corrugated roofing...from the outside , our pole-barn structures look just like conventional framing....
*Ryan - A house truss just doesn't have the large reaction that a pole barn truss does. Take, for instance, a 40' residential house truss, 2' O.C., with 40# total loading. That truss would have to be designed for a reaction of 1,600#. If it bears on a 2X4 wall, it has 5.25 square inches of bearing surface. That would be about 305 PSI, which is far below the 565 PSI allowable. But take a 40' pole barn truss, 8' O.C., with a 32# design load. That truss would have a reaction of 5,120#. If the truss bears on a "nailer" on the inside of the post, (1.5" square) that would account for 1,271# of the reaction. Let's say you put about 5 nails through the truss into the post. At about 150# each, that would account for another 750#. The bolt, depending on the size, would be good for maybe 500#. That would leave about 2,600# of the trusses' reaction unaccounted for. (about half)Furthermore, the nailer would have to be nailed like hell to the post to support 1,271#. At 150# per nail, you would have to put 9 nails through the nailer into each post to support that. Now let's assume that you notch the truss into the post, and are using a 6X6. The 5.5" by 1.5" area could support 4,661#, based on the 565 PSI figure. Add a few nails, and you've got the reaction covered. Sorry to be so technical, but this is kind of a pet peeve of mine. I have all kinds of guys coming to me that want "really strong" pole barn trusses, but then do a lousy job of installing them. Wind bracing is another thing that's largely overlooked in pole barn construction. But let's not get started on that.............(-:
*Don't apologize for the tech-speak. That's exactly what I was looking for.I actually never realized there was such a thing as a "pole barn truss". I'm just finishing a 24 x 60 pole barn now and I'm using 24' garage trusses 24" o.c. I've always used standard trusses 24" o.c. It's also sheathed and shingled instead of sheet metal on purlins.As for wind bracing, I had 14 gauge galv sheet sheared into 3" wide strips that I criss-crossed diagonally between posts at every corner and in the middle of the 60' wall. Six 10d nails at each end of each brace. Truth is I'm not sure if this is sufficient or not. View Image
*Ryan -What I'm calling a "pole barn truss" is a truss that's designed to sit on the posts, and is spaced just as far apart as the posts. (Typically 8' or 10' O.C.) Purlins are then run from truss to truss at 24" or 32" O.C., and the sheet metal screwed down to them. I honestly don't know if you corner bracing is adequate or not. At least you're taking a stab at it. I see a lot of buildings with no braces at all. Wish you lived near here - I'm always looking for a shed to keep my tractor in..............(-:
*....Ryan... pole barns get their resistance to wracking from the depth of bury of the poles, which is why you don't normally see cross brace at the corners... the lateral resistance of the buried poles, the horizontal framing purlins, and the horizontal purlins at the top ofd the wall all act in concert... the guys who do nothing but pole barns have seminars, construction manuals, value engineering.... and everything is taken into account to engineer the building so nothing extra is added..the ones that bang up against the design envelope with maximum spans, maximum spacing of poles, etc.. are all engineered just as Ron described.... the other ones are tried and true designs that have worked.. the ones that we do back off from the maximum use of materials... we use the method mostly to avoid having to pour 4' concrete walls for light additions and garages..basic answer to the thread question remains the same.. get the most use out of your poles by tieing everything into them you can...i.e. cut them last... in place...
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Ron,
I believe you possibly misread my statement. The company I worked for
has been in business since 1961 and probably has over 14,000 pole barns in 5 states up, all with an engineer's seal on the prints and in the case of commercial post frame buildings, an architects' stamp along with the engineer's seal. Buildings constructed ranged from 24ft through 70 foot clear spans. The trusses sat on a 2x6 girt than ran the entire length of the inside wall on both sides, and also sat on a 2x6 bearing block nailed on the inside of the post 90 degrees to the
truss girt. The truss was also attached to the column with two 1/2 x 8 inch carriage bolts through the truss heel which is 9-1/2". The bottom chord was always a straight cut with the top chord cut at a 3/12 pitch. Columns are 4ft in the ground and an additional 2ft was left above ceiling height to attach the trusses. {e.g. a 10ft clearance building used 16ft long poles}. In our area the roof loads are 25lb total unless a ceiling is placed on the bottom chord. Purlins are placed 20" o/c for metal or 16" o/c for plywood roofs. Girts are 24 o/c for the walls. Yellow pine is used exclusively for construction. I have seen your method used in laminated column construction, however, a 1/4" steel plate with 2- carriage bolts are still used to attach the truss to the column on each side since there is only 3" of material there instead of the 5-1/2" . I'm stuck at home with a broken ankle right now but need to get over to the barn and get to work. Do you know anything about John-Deere 401-C's? PTO
won't come up to full speed.
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Ryan, If I'm reading your picture right, you've doubled up on the cross bracing? Why not a single cross brace corner to corner?
I've often wondered about the expansion/contraction of metal corner bracing. Do you get a tight brace in winter and a floppy brace in summer or is does it really matter?
*Scott - I'm afraid I don't agree with your architects or engineers. What you described is simply inadequate to support the design loads of large span pole barn trusses. I know it's commonly done, but it still isn't right. On the John Deere thing - I'm afraid you picked the wrong guy. All my life, I've hated green tractors. After several years in the Army, and disliking Jd all my life, I figure anything what's green and don't grow has something wrong with it. Ya know why JD tractors are green ? So they can hide in the grass when the b REALtractors come around......................(-:But seriously, about the PTO thing - I'm not that familiar with that particular model. Is the PTO kicked in by the hydraulic system, or is it engaged like a stick shift ? Have you checked the obvious, like the level of the hydraulic fluid ? Is it 540 RPM or 1,000 ?You might try posting something at:http://www.agriculture.com/agtalk/Ag_Groups.htmlGo to the "machinery talk" section and post your problem there. There are many people there that are "green" fans. Best of luck with it, and I hope you can afford a better tractor one of these days....................(-:
*The reason I doubled the cross bracing instead of just going corner to corner is that the sheet I had sheared to make the braces only came in 10 foot lengths. I didn't have a piece to go the whole distance or I would have done that.I don't know if there is a seasonal difference in the taughtness of the braces or not. I do know that you can really see how much a building moves with these. On some days, one set of braces is tight and on other days, it's the other set. Probably movement of less than 1/8" but you can sure feel it in the braces.
*To cut square across a 1x12 it has to be sharp and set right. You know it's sharp enough when it cuts just with the weight of the saw. You know it's set right and sharp enough when you hold the saw at a 45 deg angle teeth up and a sewing needle will slide down from one end to the other without falling off. Mostly, however, I use power tools. The wood doesn't know.
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I'm building a pole building, using treated 6X6's and have been planning to cut them before I add my collar ties. I'd been planning to use my chain saw, but wondered if there is a better cutting device. I've got more than 30 of these suckers to cut
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Ron,
Hey man, you have done crossed the line. Pole barn construction, pickup trucks, religion, even branch of service [I'm ex-Navy 70-74]
but hit on my tractor? Actually a JD-401C is yellow (loader/backhoe}. I have only been in business for myself a year now and have to buy what I can afford. Found out it was a clutch adjustment. Can't fault you on the color thing. In the Navy it was "if it moves, salute it.... if it doesn't , paint it gray"