Toady I think I stumbled upon a great way to cut casing or miters for that fact.
Once in a while on hardwoods my 12″ SCMS blade seems to wobble in the center of the stock. Leaving a small gap. Either in one piece or both.
I was cutting casing today and tried something new.
When cutting the miters I pulled saw all the way out and had it pushed down as far as I could. I let the motor get up to speed and then pushed the saw through the stock instead of dropping the saw onto it.
Each and every cut turned out great, this was with a cheapo Dewalt blade. Red Oak stained casing.
Glued and pinned in the corners, I assembled each window on the floor with Collins miter clamps.
Give it a shot it might work for you too. Thought some of you might be interested.
Woods favorite carpenter
Replies
Hmmmmmm. With a slider, thats the way I always have done it.
But I'm one of those that will pull out a radial arm saw and slide the stock behind the blade and push away through it. Just the way I learned to get a clean cut.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I have always dropped the saw down onto the casing. Today I gave this a try and the results were great.
Much better than what I have been doing.
Why haven't you guys posted this before? Could have saved some cursing at the saw blades.
Woods favorite carpenter
What?
Ya want all the secrets at one time? LOL
Actually, I've been doing this for so long that I just assume that everyone else knows it, too <G>
>>Ya want all the secrets at one time? LOL <<
Sure while you are replying here. I could use a lesson or two. :) Woods favorite carpenter
Same here.
Like knowing somehow that you can't put both pants legs on at the same time and remain standing. Must've learned it somehow, someplace, but can't remember when or how
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"I just assume that everyone else knows it, too <G>"
spill everything you know. I want to learn..... wow, I never thought I would say that :)
It takes studs to build a house
"Why haven't you guys posted this before? Could have saved some cursing at the saw blades. "You have to join the premium plan to get all of the hints.You can send me unmarked bills to join..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I have to pay you too? Imerc already gets all my unmarked bills. :) Woods favorite carpenter
the bills are unmarked...
they are plain paper...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
You're describing what happens with a poor quality blade in your MS. You should be able to get smooth cuts by coming straight down on the material.
I have tried about every blade but a Forrest.
I get the same results with almost all of them. I bought a Denali blade not to long ago and that seemed to work pretty well coming straight down. Still had that little bit of slop that I don't tolerate in stain grade trim. Woods favorite carpenter
If you want picture frame quality miters, use a lion trimmer and be done with it..a quick chop on a saw and a slice on the trimmer, and you can't get a flea's foot in the joint.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Whats a lions trimmer? A shear or something?
I'll google it later.
Woods favorite carpenter
http://www.lionmitertrimmer.com/He's right. You buy one of these and you can get by with a pretty crappy blade.
Get a Forrest though. They're worth it.
It looks like a great tool.
I checked for where to buy and all the links said they didn't sell them anymore.
I'll do some checking on ebay, maybe I can dig one up there. Woods favorite carpenter
I have a copy by AMT American Machine and Tool outta Royersford, Pa. It cost about half of what the Lion does.
I mean to tell ya..put it on a carpeted block and slide it around the room if yer doing shoe or base. No walking back to the saw.
For casing, just set it up on a rolling bench at a convienient hight..and move it around the room as ya go..just be careful, if it starts to fall off of a improper perch, DO NOT TRY TO GRAB IT>> I had a GF almost lose 3 fingers doing that..she had it on a chair. It was a mess.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I agree with Red, get the Forrest, you'll be amazed.I have a Lion trimmer I haven't really used in years. Only use it when I'm doing fine work in the shop. They are great, but it's one of those tools I never think to bring out.With a Forrest blade, you don't have to.
Have you tried the Freud Ultimate Cutoff blade? I think it cuts as well as a Forrest for less money.I also have a Tenryu that is in the same league in terms of cut quality.
I've been doing it that way for years.
I'm pretty sure its what the manufacturers recommend, too.
A radial arm is supposed to be pulled, a slide is supposed to be pushed.
>>A radial arm is supposed to be pulled, a slide is supposed to be pushed.<<
Edumacate me.
I fail to see the difference in function of a radial arm vs slide miter saw. In both cases the blade is mounted the same direction, rotation is toward the fence and the cut is made by the blade moving laterally across the stock.
The difference which I see in the two methods: if the slide or radial arm is pulled through the stock the teeth enter the top of the stock and initiate the cut at the top and exit the bottom. If pushed, the teeth enter at the bottom and exit through the top.
Am I missing something?
I own neither saw, but have used a radial arm extensively though only for rougher cutting than being discussed.
12" Dewalt DCMS is my workhorse - Avanti blades.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
"I fail to see the difference in function of a radial arm vs slide miter saw. "the mitre slide will lift and lower. The radial arm does not
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I always pulled through an an RAS.But I have heard from people in Britan that they learned to pull it out, put in the material and push..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I don't know, this cutting on the push stroke is all very counter intuitive to me.
Maybe someday, I'll borrow or buy a slide miter saw and try the various techniques for myself.
Meanwhile, the 12" DCMS with a good, sharp blade will have to do.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
In one shop I worked in we had a 16" Dewalt 3 HP or more. The main use was cutting 2"x 10", (Full 2") and wider , Alder into 20" long blanks.
You could easily pull the saw through the cut, but the tendency to self feed and stall or worse, kick the stock over the back fence..and taking a hand along for the ride, was always present.
By push cutting, it was a lot more controlable, if the kerf tried to close it would grab the teeth on the downward cutting direction instead of lifting up from the back of the blade that was rising out of the pinch which will compound the self feed issue.
Therefore, I have adapted any RAS crosscutting that way, and sliders are recomending that way for the same reason. IMO, sliders are more unsafe than a RAS, because the head/blade can raise and lose its grip on the stock, and now you have a freewheeling , or No load blade with enough room under it to fit not just a hand , but a shoulder or head if things got really dicey while one was composing oneself from the initial event.
Slippery floor, mud, any bad or unsure footing all typical on jobsites..means more care is needed in cutting with a potential 12" saw blade flopping up and down. At least an industrial Rad saw is mostly in semi safe shop condition and the blade cannot leave the table.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Cut anything with the PC trimsaw yet?
Yes I have Mark, smooth as silk man.
I really like it. Lightweight and powerful.
I forgot to let you know.
Thanks again. Woods favorite carpenter
Glad you like it. I was impressed with it, but it's a shame to just let it sit around.
It's earning it's keep now.
I was going to get a small edge guide for it. Woods favorite carpenter
By sliding through, you are cutting casing from inside edge to outside edge. This provides a cleaner inside edge (though both edges should be good). It is also easier to make a slow, steady and smooth cut by sliding, than by dropping down on the large face of the casing all at once.
The slower, steady, slicing of the slider is effectively like having more teeth on your blade (more teeth per inch of cut).
On wide casing, cutting on a slider can leave a tiny gap at the inside of the miter, where the teeth spin by at the end of the cut. Sometimes you can increase the depth of cut setting, so more of the blade is below the table, keeping the teeth away from the inside edge as they spin to a stop.
CMS cut deeper into the table (than sliders), so are less trouble in that one case.
Thanks Basswood. Good tips. You haven't disappointed me yet with your trim tips.
I'll try to increase the depth on the saw today.
And I'll look into a Freud blade. I have a hard time putting up the money for the Forrest blades. At times the guys cut 2x4's and other things that would have the blade trashed in no time. Woods favorite carpenter
At times the guys cut 2x4's and other things that would have the blade trashed in no time. I have two saws. The old DW 12" is now relegated to framing and the Makita slide is the trim unit
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I have two saws as well, 10" Makita is for framing and the 12" Dewalt is for trim.
Problem is I tell them every time to cut lumber with a circular saw and trim with the slider.
Not that hard to understand but you'd think I was speaking Greek to them.
Woods favorite carpenter
I have two saws. The old DW 12" is now relegated to framing and the Makita slide is the trim unit
My situation exactly. I also get better results doing trim on the Makita, no matter which kind of blade I use on either saw. I pretty much stick to 80 or 90 tooth blades for both.
"I pretty much stick to 80 or 90 tooth blades for both."Yes - buy new good ones for the trim saw, then after a sharpening or two, it goes on the chop saw for framing for a couple. By then it has hit a couple nails or screws and lost a couple teeth and it goes on teh pile.
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Matt,I was just thinking out loud...that tip would only help if the end of the slide travel was resulting in the down cutting teeth on the trailing edge of the blade recutting the inside corner of the casing (just a problem I have had).The deeper cut setting just gives you a wider part of the blade at the table surface, so the only teeth cutting the work peice are at the leading edge of the blade.
I'm gonna add yet another ingredient for cleaner cuts with a slider.
Say a plywood shelf is being cross cut...make a score pass across the surface, just breaking through the veneer about 1/4" or less..pulling forward, then lower the blade all the way and push back. Just like a scoring blade on a sliding table saw.
Most important is having the blade at full speed, the centrifugal force helps stabilize the blade, eliminating some deflection or dishing.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I use my EZ rails for that now, no more scoring the sheet first.
I cut down a Melamine access door with it yesterday with a 24 tooth framing blade without any tearing.
So much faster and cleaner than scoring then cutting. Woods favorite carpenter
I've used my EZ a few times and truthfully, I'm not overly impressed.
Maybe if I have at it again with a different approach I might get into it, but I've become set in my ways as far as which direction I cut, and tolerances I expect and ease of use.
Routing Azek Flutes was cool, but for lopping shelves to length or such..nah.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
What about the EZ rails don't you care for?
I have found them to be fairly accurate, very nice for tapered pieces.
Woods favorite carpenter
Could be my set up, but ripping ply from left to right as I face the sheet is just awkward to me.
The white anti-chip strips compress and are no longer on my tick marks when I lay the saw on..the Square doo-hicky isn't accurate enough for me , the clamps are awkward as well.
Besides the hassel of dedicating the saw, cus the base attached makes normal use of the saw less than desireable..IMO.
Not that I'm chintzing on dedicating a saw..I have 2 Mils and a Left Blade PC and Cordless DW. As of now I have the base on the newer Mil waiting to switch to the PC and see if that helps my attitude.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I am in no means trying to sell you on the system.
I am a newbie to it and was curious as to what a a more experienced owner thought.
I have a ton of saws and one dedicated isn't a big deal to me. I just ordered a dedicated 8-1/4"Makita for it. I didn't like the PC that came with mine so I am selling it.
Woods favorite carpenter
I know.
I think it IS a great system, just not really what I need at this time. I do a lot of varied stuff, and a dedicated plywood disecter is not something I'd readily take out and set up on a whim, nor dedicate a shop space to have it all set to go..kinda of a conundrum.
Now a panel saw, I'd find room for..less foot print.
Just my quirky way of looking at tasks.
I think Dino's driving force was to help avert tablesaw operations that were dangerous or difficult, and he has achieved that end. But in my methods of operation, I feel safe and comfortable.
As far as attaching power planers and routers and other convertible features, it just smacks of ShopSmith mentality..it can do it all with the right set up, but not as well as a dedicated machine.
Old habits die hard.(G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
That is a good one.I somestimes make shelf dadoes but lightly scoring on the pull (on both edges of the dado), then hog everything else out pushing.
What that slide thru does is keep the blade so it has the same orientation to the surface opf the wood. Every cut by each tooth on the blade happens at the same angle when sliding through. By contrast, cchopping down means the orientation cchanges with each cut by each tooth some shaving at top, some lifting, and some plunging
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I would say just the opposite.
Going straight down puts approximately the same area of the blade on the workpiece at the same (or closely the same) angle.
OTOH, when you slide across the table, the part of the blade that hits the workpiece first, say about three inches up is at a very different angle where the teeth strike the wood than when the lower part of the blade moves in to finish the cut.
OK - that is true if you are cutting something 3" thick. but most is between 9/16" and 5/4 for me. We cut most crown on the flat.
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Edited 1/4/2008 8:44 am ET by Pete
I get a little tear out, the blade is a 80 tooth Dewalt. The solid yellow one.
Woods favorite carpenter
Dammit! Now I want a sliding compound saw real bad.
I'm just making the transition from ambitious homeowner to professional contractor, so I'm not completely tricked out yet. All I've got is a 10" Delta chop saw.
A slider is a great tool.
I use it to do alot of things, not just crosscut and miter stock.
The depth stop is great for dado's and shoulders on tennons. I have cut entire tennons with one.
I used to have an 8" Hitachi slider, and I regret getting rid of it. The cuts were always dead flat and straight. Where as a 12" blade has given me a little more of a learning curve.
I don't think they make it anymore. I am going to start looking in pawn shops for one. 90% of the time I don't need that big of a saw for typical base and casing. Woods favorite carpenter
They still make that little Hitachi:http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-C8FB2-2-Inch-Sliding-Compound/dp/B0000223L2/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1199482335&sr=8-2I would like to get that saw or the little DeWalt that is made in Italy.
Thats the one, price hasn't dropped a penny since I bought it 6 years ago.
Great little saw, wish I still had it. Woods favorite carpenter
I get good results either way.
One thing I have learned is to not move the blade once the cut is finished until it stops. Also, if the workpiece allows, I pull it back about 1/16" after completing the cut while the blade is stopping.
Slide saws up-cut on the push stroke so you get more edge tear that way, but the dust collection works better.
I'm serious about dust collection when cutting cypress inside because the dust makes me feel like I'm coming down with the flu.
For the last couple of days I've been running a 10 inch Hitachi plugged into a tool-actuated Fein shopvac for dust extraction. Unassisted the Hitachi collects more dust in three hours than my old Makita 12 inch did in a week. With the Fein shopvac hooked up to the Hitachi I would guess it goes to about 98 percent.
I cut outside so dust isn't an issue. HO's don't like the dust and I don't like cleaning it up. Woods favorite carpenter