Can someone give me a description of Cutting In when you are painting. I assume it means rolling close to an edge, and then using a brush to finish the last bit so the roller doesn’t bump the ceiling, molding, or whatever edge you are painting up to. Thanks.
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ackshally... you cut-in first and then roll over the cut-in, so you get the same texture..
a 2 or 2.5" is a nice cutting brush
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I cut in after rolling. I'm not wasting time with a brush that can be done with a roller.
If you brush first, then roll up to the edge (and over some of your brush work)you will get a more even wall finish, especially noticable with the glossier finishes.
Best if you roll while the brushed areas are still wet.
Terry
Done it. It's a waste of paint. I'll paint up to the roller, same marks glossy or not. And when cutting I know where I need to paint too. I'm quicker with a roller then a brush, but that's just me.
Just my $.02
works for me try it. If it doesn't work for you go back to what does.
gud fer u... just don't paint my jobsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I will presume that one more opinion is not too many, and say that I roll first, then brush the edge. Forme, it helps avoid a line of paint build up along the ceiling from to much material on the roller. If I come along and spread it with the brush, I can get a lot of edge done without dipping for paint. But I am sure that either method can work for those who practice differently. As long as you don't bump the ceiling, either will do! At least we agree to do it while still wet, don't we?
Dan
here's the deal... a typical cut-in brush is two inches.. you can high speed roll to within one inch or closer.. so, which do you want .. a two inch border of different texture or a one inch border of different texture..
guess which one looks better
all my painting knowledge comes from hiring and learning from high-end painters for 20 years.... after hiring low-end painters for the first 10 years...
there is a difference.. which was pointed out to me by a very particular customer who advised me to stop fooling around with hacks and hire some good painters....
one painter will get the job done and the other will make the job a winner
but hey, whadda i no ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I paint a lot and I gotta agree with Mike. 95% of the paint work I do involves texture in the actual paint finish, which is why I pay a lot of attention to the quality and nap size of the roller covers that I use. I HATE seeing crappy cut-in work where it's all a mess of heavy brush strokes. When I cut-in I most often use a fat 3 1/2" or 4" brush, and I stipple to match the paint finish the roller will be leaving. I don't like fooling around with smaller brushes- the fatty brings lots of paint to the surface, is a great stippler, and can detail just fine in the right hands. JMHO.
Ken Hill
Stippling is a kind of patting with a brush? Never heard of doing this to match roller finish. Can you explain your technique? Thanks.
For those that roll first then cut, stop watching "Trading Places". It's eroding your skills <g>
And what's with these mini trim brushes? 2"? what are ya working on? Dollhouses?
Warning: dates in the calendar are closer than you think.
Barry E
Handy advice from someone who doesn't paint but hires hacks to paint for picky customers.
Any other jewels of wisdom for us? :-)
Cut in first then roll-that's what the pro's do . The homeowners roll and sometimes skip the cut in alltogether! The only place I'll roll first is closets.
I always paint the room the same color it was before so's I don haf ta use a brush et all!
TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
The pro's also drink too much, is that a good idea too?
And when the "pros" show up 3 are cutting while 3 are rolling so exactly who's doing what first.
I wasn't responding specifically to your post GEOB21 I was just adding my opinion to the topic. I'm a pro in this business and I haven't had a drink in 5 years and truth be told some of the best skilled tradesmen I've worked with usually drank to much.The "pros" who do have 3 guys cut and 3 guys roll DO know who is doing what first-that is why they are called pros ; they are doing a professional job. Just because you don't know who is doing what don't assume everyone else doesn't know what they are doing.
yeah... my old standby....
bite meMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
bawahhhhh!!!
Hoist by your own petard.
And thanks for the offer but I only bark, no biting.
na na na na nah
Tim Mooney
I'm curious. Has this topic been argued here on Breaktime previously? Is this destined to join vent/no vent, etc.??
I cut in first, but I don't worry much about it still being wet. I still roll carefully as close to the other surface as possible.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Edited 11/17/2002 9:38:39 PM ET by Rich Beckman
First of all , lets look at the facts .
Whether we are doing new work or old it takes two coats of cut in normally . Normal enough to plan on it . On a new job it is best to roll the first coat of color on the wall and give it the trim man . This would mean that only the ceiling would have two coats of cut in plus boxes. The fastest way to cut the ceiling in and the best is to start cutting in the two coats on the ceiling off stilts until it is done. If you drop any paint it is easy to see therefore you can brush it out. A roller with 1 1/2" nap will get the wall corners with out cutting in . 3/4" nap will have to be cut with a brush first . Now where this arguement starts is old work I believe , and thats the best way to pick one from the other .
Normally one roller coat is given to old work and two coats of cut in . So how is the best way to get that done before we move our drop cloths? We normally dont cover the whole house in drops , so they are used sparingly . Cut the ceiling and the trim the first time and then roll over it . If you roll first it will drag your brush. Other wise it would make no difference. Now we had a dry room to cut in with out dragging and if we dropped paint on the wall it would be seen and fixed. When the roller work is done the room has had one coat . It must dry at this point . Come back in after doing another room . [I put a fan on the room Ive done in the doorway ] Now lets determine what needs another coat . If its only cut in , do it and pull the cloths . If its both its done the same way again , other wise we would be either switching between the brush and roller or we would be waiting for the roller job to dry . That is kinda like only coating one side of an inside corner with mud and having to wait for it to dry, before finishing the other side. So;
The best time spent is cutting first and rolling last , but the quality is no different. Here is why; the cut in coats are thinned with flotrol and the wall paint is rolled full thickness ,so each have the same thickness of paint if its a finish like egg shell, or semi gloss.
The way I have explained is the fastest way other than spray to complete the job . It is also the pro way because of the speed. There is no difference in quality if both are done right.
Tim Mooney
Well, that's a key part of it, isn't it ? If you cut, then roll, it really doesn't matter how wet the edge is; on the other hand, if you try and brush what has been rolled on, then you'll get a mess unless the edge is still very wet..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
So I am not in the majority when I choose to roll first, then cut. I might even admit that some do better work! But I do not believe that the conversation needed to deteriorate to name calling and insults for everybody to learn from the discussion. Not everybody doing things different than the "common" practice, in any endeavor, should be labled a hack,incompetent,or anything else. Please try to remain calm and even tempered when giving advice or differing opinions, we don't really need to get into screaming contests do we? And yes I will try to cut first on the next paint job, even though I have had at least decent results the other way. No, I don't feel insulted, but I think others were, and it is not needed to be helpful. So there
Dan
None of you guys have a clue - the only way to cut-in properly is to get one of those sponge thingys or those roller wheel thingys or a Wagner power sprayer thingy...............
No, no, no. The only PROPER way to cut in is to gently tap the gentleman on his RIGHT shoulder, smile at the woman, bow slightly, and then say "may I cut in" with a smooooooooth, deep, masculine voice.......
psst, cairo... you got 'cher tights on backwardsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
EEEEEWWWWWW!
exactly how did you determine the tights were on backwards?????
Toes curling up?
The codpiece is supposed to stick Out the front not...
yee gawds.... brown trout ?.. 'er trouser trout ?.... cain't tell without a label , can ya ?
now... back to the thread....what's wrong with a 2 1/2 " cut-in brush... ?
if trim is 2 1/2" casing.. the my trim brush is a 2 1/2" ... and cut-in is the same brush
but hey, whadda i no ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
As I was coming to Breaktime, I saw this article in the FH home page about painting walls and ceilings. Brian (the author) does a fine job of explaining the procedure - including CUTTING IN FIRST!
However, he uses a 3" brush. Again, I can't get the control I need with such a big sucker. Fortunately, my wife doesn't say that.
Clearly, much of the problem is that painting is often perceived as an easy thing to do. A quality paint job takes a lot of time and costs a lot of money. So there are plenty willing to do less for less and plenty willing to accept that.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Edited 11/18/2002 10:12:12 PM ET by Rich Beckman
24856.39 in reply to 24856.36
Clearly, much of the problem is that painting is often perceived as an easy thing to do. A quality paint job takes a lot of time and costs a lot of money. So there are plenty willing to do less for less and plenty willing to accept that.
Rich Beckman
That should be on every bucket of paint !
Tim Mooney
I agree with you Tim! Then again who reads labels anymore?Tamara
Hey Mike....I roll first, then brush. Honest.....it looks great and is a lot faster. I was a die hard cut first dude, then I tried the unthinkable.....now I'm a believer.
jocobe
Member Cut First Anonymous
In almost every case rolling after cutting in gives you the best job. If you can't see the difference then look into getting some eyewear.
Having said that, on a 2 coat job I roll the first coat, cut in, then roll the finish coat.
While in theory cutting and rolling both while wet may seem like a plan, you frigged the pooch if the brushwork goes off while you are rolling. Better to do one step at a time, unless the job is very small.
O.K., We got the opinions from the paid guys doing the painting.
Here's my opinion from a very picky homeowner...
I refuse to hire ANY painter to do ANY painting in my house.
I'm sure there are guys out there that are incredibly competent. But the bottomline for me is detailed well within this thread. There are too many guys out there doing painting that are doing it for the sole purpose to get it done as fast as possible so's they can get on to the next job. It's simply called production. They have to. We see within this thread that some guys interpretation of quality is different than others. And most customers have no idea of what's a quality job or not. Accordingly, there's lots of work for those boys that comfortably cut corners.
It absolutely sickens me to see some of the jobs done by "pro's." Such as:
This house I just moved into 3 months ago. Real nice house. A Parade of Homes model just a few years ago. It has lacquered clear pine trim throughout. The bozo painters caulked every joint between the wall and the trim (base, casing, whatever)whether it needed it or not. There is at least half of the top of the trim covered with caulk and paint. As you look down at the top of the base, it looks like some pissed off teenager did the job. I like nice clean, crisp joints. Being the anal obsessive compulsive personality that I am, I'm going through the house and slowly scratching off this unnecessary caulk and repainting in order to get those clean lines.
And the windows! Top grade wooden casements. Beautiful from the inside. But when opened, from the outside, one can see that the inside of the arm mechanism cover ( the bottom wooden piece from the inside) has never been painted and is suffering from premature decay. Raw wood being exposed to the elements. This is where moisture infiltrates the wood, thus causing expansion and contraction through the seasons and allowing dryrot and such to take hold as well as shortening the life of the finish on the other side of that piece. I believe proper painting of casements requires ALL hardware to be removed. The sash removed, and all weatherstripping, locks, slide mechanisms and screws completely removed. The sash must then be painted separately with brush stokes following the wood grain. When I see that some hack has painted over the weatherstripping or hardware, it grinds me something fierce as that weatherstripping has lost its function and the hardware its beauty.
Doors must also be removed from the frame and treated likewise. Seeing slopped on paint on the flexible weatherstripping looks so amateurish. And it is SO easy to remove it and replace afterward. Anything to save a couple of minutes so's they can get to the next hack job.
I could go on and on with examples, but I believe the point has been made. But in this house of mine, I offered the guy 10 grand less than his asking price and told him the house was well worth what he wanted, but the crappy paint job (that he just had the pro's come in and do) would have to be redone. The 10 grand would cover my cost to do so. He took the offer.
If I was ever forced to hire a painter and I saw him rolling first and cutting in after, he'd be fired on the spot. Like Mike says, the texture is most critical.
I'm serious, guys. Improve the quality. You never know when the next buyer is going to be some hardarse like me that will rub your nose in it. My last house was also just painted before it was sold to me. As I was doing the remodel, the painter came back, all proud and such, and announced to me that it was his work and wanted to know if I needed any thing else done. I told him the workmanship of the job was so substandard, that I would NEVER consider him to paint anything - even a chicken coop. Your workmanship is what gets you your next job. It's your form of advertising.
But on to another point brought up... Do you guys really use 2, 2 1/2, or even 4 inch brushes? That baffles me. I could NEVER use anything over 1 1/2 inch angled trim brush. I lose the ability to produce that fine, just perfect, paint flow that produces just the right line. Yes, I have to go back to the bucket more frequently. But in doing so, I don't experience those inevitable globs of paint (albeit small) that flow off the brush and ruin my straight line. I will use different thicknesses of these 1 1/2 brushes depending on the type of paint and whether it's the the prime coat or top. Experience has taught me that the larger the brush, the less control I have. On the other hand, the 1" things are simply too small.
On to a third point that has not been brought up in this thread. Several months ago, someone made a post asking about the types of tape to use in order to achieve the nicest lines when painting up to a stained / natural wood trim and/or cabinets. The poster was lamenting over using this fancy expensive blue painters tape and still getting some migration of paint under the tape and causing the poor lines. Someone, I don't remember who, suggested to use Scotch Frosted tape instead. Well, I'm here to say to that someone, Thanks. That was a brilliant suggestion. I'm using such now on my repainting job and it works beautifully. You're a good man. Now, that guy, I may consider to hire.
A 1.5" for cutting in ? As I've noted here several times, I'm a rotten house painter; however, lately I've become a whole lot better after listening to the advice of experts. One of the first things they did for me was to move me from a 2" to a 3" brush for cutting in (decent quality too, like Purdys), with more paint, and a much faster stroke - no one could be amazed that this works so well than I, but it does.
As for the quality from the pros... I know several, and they all usually have to compete on price with crews of college kids or off-duty fire/police guys: and they still do a pretty good job. If you're willing to pay by the hour, or even pay a fair price for quality, you'd be surprised at what most of them can produce..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
That's how Mike repainted his pick up. Looked good from my place too.http://www.quittintime.com
look, oz, i did NOT use a 1" brush to paint my pickup...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
This thread is embarressing............I hope not too many homeowners are looking at this. They're gonna be fearful next time they have their house painted that the painters will be rolling around in the grass fighting over who cuts first. Who gives a cr*p whether you cut first or not. If the customer is happy and you're method makes you happy..............it's O.K.................Let it go.............
Geeeeeeeeeees!
jocobe
This has been an interesting thread. When we were redoing our oldest daughter's bedroom in historical colors I told Lars "You paint I just won't be able to do a quality job." To me a "REAL" painter is one that doesn't have to use drop cloths and never splatters paint on my floors:-) The input here has been interesting to say the least.Tamara
tamara....i've never seen a painter not put down drop cloths in any of our customer's housesMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I think Tamara's reply was tongue-in-cheek, but still, I'd be shocked if a painter didn't use drop cloths. And I mean canvas ones, not drop poly sheeting.
You don't expect to use them, but like car/house/medical insurace, it's there for the inevitable.
Heck, our town even has fire insurance on the fire house.<g>
after moving into our new house that we had build in a moderate quality subdivision my wife couldn't stand the chalk they used to paint the walls with, so to my surprise (and fear, she isn't very talented in handy woman projects) one day when I came home she had started painting the house, first the main bathroom. well in the paint pan was one of those $1.50 paint pads with two little wheels on one end used for cutting in. when I saw this I said what are you wasting you time on this thing for, it's a toy. she proceeded to point out the ceiling to wall corners and ill be damned if the lines weren't perfect. I now I'm setting myself up for a lot of abuse here, but unless you are very skilled I would really recommend using one of these things then rolling over the area for texture, paint the cieling first overlaping the walls a little then cut in the walls using this device.
it takes some patience to get used to they are prone to drip, can leave a heavy line of paint on the bottom edge that needs to be chased with a brush, and don't get any paint on the wheels or your screwed, but for a perfectly straight cut in line they really do work.