Ever since I can remember paint cans have been pretty much packaged the same way. I think it’s high time for the paint industry to switch packaging methods. The development of the standard quart and one gallon cans were created when this country lacked the materials and methods to package the product in other ways. No that we can blow mold bottles and jugs out of plastic is there abymore need for the obtuse can. Everytime I pour something out of one of those dang things I need a wad of paper towels to clean up the mess on the side of the can, the lid groove and not to mention the stuff that spills off on to the floor or bench.
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Replies
were have you been???
paint comes in square plastic containers now...
one quart and up...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I've seen those. But by and large the vast majority of paint and finish products still come in cans. As much as I like those pourable containers I still haven't seen them in the brands I need or use and most importantly for me clear finishes.
change brands...
send a message...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Ever try to put a plastic "pourable container" on or in a shaker?
Paints will settle some of the solids out while setting on the store shelf. Even the satin coat clear finish will have settling occur after a while.
If everyone had the sense to properly stir the solids back into suspension, maybe plastic would make bigger inroads with the paint manufactures.
Most reputable paint stores will give a gallon or even 5 gallons of paint a 3 minute shake before it leaves the store. Teaching an employee to use a shaker is about a five minute job. When they clean up after the their first throw out or split can experience the lesson comes back to them:) Plastic would become a literal "paint bomb" in a shaker.
For $1.50 you can buy a plastic pour spout that snaps on the lid ring of a quart or gallon paint can. Takes all of 10 seconds to use and another minute to remove and clean up.
Buy one and cool your jets. It aint the cans fault.
I'm not saying it's the cans fault. Just an idea whose time has come. Kind of like eight track tapes, vcr's, LP's. Sure there are some attributes or redeeming qualities to everything but in this day and age technology and materials allow improvements that weren't available in the past. If some manufacturers can package their products in plastic, still survive the shaker I'd say the door is open to a new industry standard. Sure I can buy a little spout thing to fit on the can. But it's another thing I have to buy just to get the product out neatly. And another thing to clean and keep track of. And is a bandade solution to an otherwise solvable problem.
paint comes in square plastic containers now...
I've bought paint in plastic and like the handy pour, BUT... for shelf life, I suspect the can is probably the better container. IMHO, glass and metal containers are less likely to dry up than plastic.jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
no matter what paint comes in...
I leave it sit right where I saw it...
onl a 100 years ya say.. I think that nail / lip trick is a hand me down from generation to generation...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I know what you mean Ted. One tip - I always punch holes, usually three, in the rim of the can after I first take the lid off. I use an awl and punch them right next to each other. Pour from that side, and any paint that gets trapped in the rim will run back into the can. It works.
Greg
You would think the can manufactures could ad prepunched holes to their rims.
I always punch holes, usually three, in the rim of the can after I first take the lid off.
I just use a healthy sized nail. Trick that was taught to me during a summer job about 100 years ago.
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
I use the awl of the Swiss Army Knife after I use the screwdriver to open the can, god I love a good S.A.K.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
A screwdriver to open a paint can???
What sacrilege! You're supposed to use one of those specialty tools meant just for that purpose. :-)
But seriously, sometimes opening an old can with a screwdriver will damage the lid and it may not fit as well anymore.
That is one thing I hate -- the cheap cans where the lid is so thin that any sort of tool just unrolls the rolled edge. You end up having to pry the lid out with a pair of VIceGrips.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
I know. Automotive oil cans changed designs about 20 years ago going from the quart can (like paint still has) to the more square design with a spout.
Runnerguy.
I just cut the rim off when I want to clean it out and use it for other things. Takes all of 50 or 60 seconds.
Anyways, paint is starting to come in plastic tubs now
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There are plastic shields and caps that snap onto a gallon paint can and prevent the mess. They really work, and the caps are especially handy, since you can pour a little, then flip the cap closed and not have to worry about relidding the can right away.
I could not agree more. The traditional paint can has had it's day in the sun; it's high time the industry grew up.
Mixing paint? How about every container having a plastic-wrapped magnet inside. Simply set the container on a table that has a spinning magnet under it ... and the internal magnet will spin as well. Laboratories have been mixing things this way, and pumps have been pumping this way, for ages. Heck, many of us use a simpler version of this, simply by placing a few large nuts in the can before we shake it.
Paint today is probably one of the very few remaining products, where the contents of the package cost the maker more than the container. By comparison, your typical bottle of soda probably costs the bottler five times the cost of the soda within.
There is no reason why paint must remain in the simple old can. No reason, that is, apart from the attitudes prevalent in the paint industry. Simply put, the manufacturers are more concerned about each other, and their distributors, than the final user. They really could not care less about the guy holding the brush.
Here's what I would like to see for paint packaging:
Containers of a gallon, or less, would resemble detergent bottles. You would be able easily remove the spout, to insert a mixer. The covering cup would also serve as a paint cup, for small brushing tasks.
The 5 gallon pail would be replaced by a rectangular pail, with one side sloped and textured. This would serve as roller tray in use. The wide mouth cover would also contain a decent pouring spout to one side. For that matter, a built in siphon tube- for spray jobs - might be an idea.
Renos wrote:
Here's what I would like to see for paint packaging:
Containers of a gallon, or less, would resemble detergent bottles. You would be able easily remove the spout, to insert a mixer. The covering cup would also serve as a paint cup, for small brushing tasks.
The 5 gallon pail would be replaced by a rectangular pail, with one side sloped and textured. This would serve as roller tray in use. The wide mouth cover would also contain a decent pouring spout to one side. For that matter, a built in siphon tube- for spray jobs - might be an idea.
those are some great ideas!
I have seen 2-5 gallon paint pails with the roller side such as you describe, used for "bulk" products like PVA primer.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
One thing to keep in mind is that the metal can, if well sealed, keeps paint considerably longer than a plastic container.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Did you know that "can coatings" are a specialty line within the paint manufacturing industry? "Cans" cover the whole gamut of containers, from the lowly paint can to drums and even the cans for food products. Whatever the product going into the can, there is ussualy a specialty coating for the interior of the can.
Now we are going to put all those chemist, lab. techs, and sales people all out of work if we eliminate the cans and go to blow formed plastic.
I know,... lets let the chinese make them for us....
Dave
Not disagreeing. I was saying that plastic allows the solvents in paint to diffuse out much faster than steel does. This means that paint goes bad considerably faster in plastic containers.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
IMO, long term storage is greatly over rated. Neither the retailer, nor the manufacturer, is in the warehousing business. They want it to go from vat to cash register as quickly as possible. Even allowing for the seasonal nature of the business, they're looking at a need for 12 months or shorter 'shelf life.' When I buy paint, I'm not buying it to store it, either. I suppose you could say that I 'store' my paint out in the open, for all to see :) The 'great' seal provided by the standard paint can goes away as soon as you open it. As a matter of course, the opening and use of the paint can result in it not sealing very well at all on the second or third try. That's one of my gripes about paint cans. The seal is too easily damaged. Add to that the risk of damage (freezing, etc) during storage, and long term storage is not, IMO, an issue. Moreover, the assumption that 'plastic' is not as good as metal or glass is not correct. Sure, there are all kinds of plastic ... but the ones we need to look at are the ones that line beer cans, food wrappers, and -yes- paint cans themselves. Even the humble mason jar gets it's seal from a rubber gasket.
I'm sure that everyone in the chain wants the stock to turn over. But if it doessn't, and goes bad, that's a lot of money down the drain. Especially for some of the more exotic colors and types of paint, having a extended shelf life is fairly important.As for plastic being as good as steel, watch an unopened plastic mineral spirits jug over a period of a year or so -- it'll slowly develop a dimple as the stuff inside evaporates.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
All well thought ideas...I've thought of the magnetic mixer thing myself, matter-o-fact, but alas, it wouldn't work. As a chemist in my former life, I used those all the time. But, the small magnetic agitators don't work well for viscous fluids. You'd need large agitator magnets. This would considerably up the cost of packaging. However, the point is moot because, as someone else noted, the plastic jugs simply do not allow for long-term storage of the paint.I like the square metal can idea, though (more efficient storage and pouring)..I especially hate all the wasted space my paint cans consume on my shop shelves..But again, square metal cans cost considerably more than round ones to produce. I'm sure the principle reason for round metal paint cans was, is, and always will be COST. The bottom dollar is always the bottom line.And, btw, I've also used my fair share of plastic paint can baseball caps for clean pouring..like the inside-corner drywall knife..Great idea for the DIYers and sometime-painters...But for those of us who go through at least a few dozen gallons of paint a year, the dry paint brush clean-up technique is much quicker and less hassle.. And get a 5-in-1 to to open your cans and clean your roller pads, for cyrin' out loud.. In fact, if you're any self-respecting tradesman and DON'T have two or three 5-in-1's (for everything), you're simply not legit. Might be a coincidence, but every hack I ever met didn't have a 5-in-1.
Death to the paint can........
.357 comes to mind....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Death to the paint can........
.357 comes to mind....
'the man who shot libery valance' I think they used a 44.
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
actually it's a .357 Sig... .44 is too large to carry comfortably...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"I like the square metal can idea, though (more efficient storage and pouring"Yeah, except square cans use more metal for the same volume. Of course, the most efficient use of metal would be a sphere. A square can is also less strong with the same gauge metal. No one has mentioned that if you buy your paint in five gallon lots, you usually get a reusable plastic bucket that would cost you up to $4.99 at a big box. (However, that may only be true of exterior house paint...)
It's a matter of 'whose interests count most.' Sure, the guys at the paint company have their desires ... but, the final function of the container is to please the consumer - perhaps by making it easier for them to do the job. Look in your refrigerator and pantry. Heck, someone already mentioned motor oil containers. The fact is, very few products are packaged in containers that were determined by 'material economy' or anything but pleasing the final consumer. There is no more reason for every paint company to use the same cans ... than there is for every catsup maker to use the same bottle. The most famous example of 'designer packaging' is the Coca-Cola bottle. If we can put a man on the moon ..... we ought to be able to re-invent the paint can.
"The fact is, very few products are packaged in containers that were determined by 'material economy' or anything but pleasing the final consumer."
When's the last time you tried to open something packaged in vacuum wrapped plastic?
Probably the container should have some uniformity across manufacturers so they can all fit in the shaker. Should be any big deal there. When CD's where new a standard was easily found.
And you're right....if we can put a man on the moon we ought to be able to have a better paint can.
Runnerguy
Yeah, the correct statement is that packaging is to please the retailer. Which I think is a big factor re the paint can -- the can works well on the retail shelf -- displays nicely, is easy for the consumer to pick up, doesn't tend to get ratty too quickly, etc.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
I can't agree more about the paint cans...they are the bain of my existence. I HATE to paint. I think its all the prep and cleanup that chaps my hide....but I do it cuz I have to.
One product that I've come to love is the PourIt paint can lid from D.A.L.E.S. Corportation. It's a plastic lid that snaps onto a paint can, liquid tight. When you need some, pour it out, replace the small lid. It's one of the few "gimiky" items I've found to really work.View Image
Yeah, that's the type of thing I've been talking about. Perfect for situations like with trim paint when you need to pour a little out every 15 minutes or so.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
...In fact, if you're any self-respecting tradesman and DON'T have two or three 5-in-1's (for everything), you're simply not legit...
I always keep a 5-in-1 handy in my bucket boss with all of my other painting tools. But I never actually use it.
I open paint cans with a paint can opener. I don't put holes in the paint can rim, I clean them out with a brush. I keep various scrapers/putty knives/taping knives in my bucket boss. I like offset slip joint pliers for pulling nails. And I don't clean roller covers, I toss them (I haven't found enough difference between expensive covers and cheap ones to justify the extra cost or cleaning time).
But I still keep my nice clean 5-in-1 on hand just in case.
>>But I still keep my nice clean 5-in-1 on hand just in case.I use my 5-in-1 for million things. I have one in my tool belt. One in my tool bag. One in my paint box. A few I've lost---and found, now in a drawer. If I were to scrounge around in my truck or trailer, I bet I'd find another..I only occasionally use them for painting tasks (as I'm not principally a painter). I use them as scrapers, pry-bars, caulk removers, for trim work, siding, roofing, window installs, door installs, hanging sheetrock, tiling...shoot, I can't think of a thing that I haven't used my 5-in-1 for. If I lost my right hand, instead of a hook, I'd have a 5-in-1 prosthesis. Time to dirty yours up, brother.. God didn't invent it so it could sit in your bucket!
Time to dirty yours up, brother.. God didn't invent it so it could sit in your bucket!
LOL. Good point!
Thinking on it, those rectangular cans (1 gal, 2 gal ?) that solvents used to come in would be great. An industrial engineer at CIL told me they are reluctant to change the cans because a) they have to fit the same equipment as everyone elses' cans, and, b) their basic consumer still wants to just open the can and dip a brush in.
<!----><!----> <!---->
Phill Giles<!----><!---->
The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
You also have to mix in the can, which means a stirring stick in many situations.(And the round bottom is better suited for mixing than a rectangular bottom.)
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
I'm thinking that a square can with a smallish screw-top could be 700'ed (reverse James Bond: shaken, not stirred)
<!----><!----> <!---->
Phill Giles<!----><!---->
The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
Yeah, but that doesn't work in the field.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Sure it can, just shake it by hand: paints don't seem to separate like they used to, a little agitation is all they need (and put a marble in the can)
<!----><!----> <!---->
Phill Giles<!----><!---->
The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
I like paint cans. Maybe it's because I use them so much I've gotten used to them. Easy to carry, easy to stack, easy to store, easy to stir, easy to open and close, easy to pour, easy to clean and re-use... what's not to like?
When I pour paint, I keep a paint brush in my hand to immediately wipe off any drips on the outside of the can. I can usually get them long before they get anywhere near the bottom. I also use the brush to clean the lip before putting the lid back on. I don't punch holes because the paint may not keep as well and I can get the can pretty clean in about 10 seconds.
There has been the rare occasion when I wasn't going to be using a brush, but even then I use one as I described. There's so little paint on the brush, it cleans up quickly.
But what about those paints that come in plastic jugs, how do they mix them?
I'll agree with you here Don. I can cut off the pour and clean the can rim with a brush in about the same time as you. I offered up the pour spout purchase because it is simple and effective for the less talented painters out there.
I can also use a paint spatula and a plastic cup to take paint from a can and never get a drop of paint on the can rim or the outside of the cup. Course I worked in a paint lab for seven years so I also know how devious the paint industry is about things like product innovation.
Dave
I should add that I used to use a paint lip shield years ago It sort of looks like a baseball cap brim and snaps onto the inner rim to keep paint out of the lip. It's actually a pretty clever idea.
That was back before I painted professionally. I didn't like getting paint in the lip because I was concerned that the paint wouldn't store well for the next 10 years (ha!) that I thought I would have it lying around.
I have since found that it really doesn't take much talent with a brush to get the lip clean and I have one less "accessory" to clean.
The lids with the flip top opening are good when you're doing trim, eg, and need to pour out small amounts regularly.On a slightly separate topic, if you're doing trim and occasionally need, eg, a bit of primer, the thing to do is to put the primer in a wide mouth mason jar. That way it can be easily kept sealed between uses, and you don't have to carry an entire gallon up a ladder.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
personally--- i have found the paint can to be the LEAST of my problems-when it comes to painting.
it's really a non-issue
with most products-- i am interested in a better product--rather than a better packaging
paint can??- not a problem
stephen
I agree with the brush to clean the paint out of the rim. You can use oe of the cheapie 79 cent brushes if you aren't going to brush on the paint. What I would like to see is the paint dealers required to take the cans back - sort of like motor oil is required to be collected in some states. Around here, it costs almost as much to junk the paint cans as it does to buy the paint. Ok, exaggeration, but it costs $35 to take a small pickup load of trash to the transfer station and then the steel cans (with any paint dried, of course) go into the non-recycled trash.
They take empty cans that held latex for recycling here; cans that held oil paint goes to hazmat.By-the-bye, I use about a dozen of those flip-top plastic lids: put one onto each open colour, even the primer, when I open it, and it stays there until the can is finished (sometimes a couple of years). I've used the ceiling paint (eg. Dutch Boy) that comes in plastic jugs: really handy.Oh, I've started using something called a "Handy Pail"; a quart-sized little container with an easy hold handle and replaceable liners for fast clean-up - much better than a home-made trim bucket.
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Phill Giles<!----><!---->
The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
Yeah, I love that handy pail thing. The handle is real convenient for holding it with your hand wrapped around it like a mug, so you have a good grip without having to pay too much attention
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Ted,
They have redisigned the can! They make them now with lips on the lid that unroll instead of lifting off. Now you don't need to worry about spilling the paint because you can't get it open.
Jack
I don't use any of those after market plastic thingys. Just have your brush right there while you are pouring and use it to wipe up any drips or clean out the groove. A good brush can do alot more than just apply paint.
Edited 12/14/2007 9:57 pm ET by popawheelie
Metal is ok - it corrodes
Paper is ok
Plastic is definitely the wrong direction
Use paper at the store, or bring your own bags
Buy only paper milk and OJ jugs
Plastic is screwing up the world
It tends not to go away
There are dunes of plastic around the pacific rim
Birds are dying by the billions because they are picking plastic off of the ocean surfaces thinking it is food and feeding it to their unsuspecting young - the young bird dies a painful death
As long as I am ranting, I will say I hate people who cut the beaks off of millions of chickens and make them live in a cage smaller than a sheet of writing paper for their entire lives so we can get cheap eggs.
Sorry for hijacking, but this is one of my buttons
Dan Fogelberg died today - a staunch environmentalist
"Metal is ok - it corrodesPaper is okPlastic is definitely the wrong direction"I agree plastic can be an environmental faux pas if it is not disposed of properly. But PETG and HDPE are highly recycleable.
In fact the demand for recycled PETG material is so high reprocessors can't get enough plastic bottles to keep up with demand.
But I doubt that you'd be able to recycle a plastic paint "can". Cleaning it up would be too expensive.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
"But I doubt that you'd be able to recycle a plastic paint "can". Cleaning it up would be too expensive."Maybe oil based products. But I can't see how washing out latex would be all that difficult.
If everybody cleaned out their latex paint cans, we would also be using a lot more water - either way, there is a cost.
"If everybody cleaned out their latex paint cans, we would also be using a lot more water - either way, there is a cost."Of course there is no such thing as a free lunch. I guess now we're weighing whether its more environmentally sound to use a plastic paint can or a metal paint can and which is more environmentally disposable (isn't that an oxymoron?).
I guess it all depends on how one cleans out the can. If it's done in a sink the water gets treated and put back in the user stream. If its done outside then the water is not recoverable.
I don't know what the life cycle costs of a can is or a plastic jug are but in my part of the world water is accessible enough for me to wash out cans, bottles and other containers prior to recycling them. If water ever becomes more scarce here then of course that will play into the effectiveness of any recycling efforts.
I have never recycled empty paint cans in the past but now that I've thought about it I'll definitely start.
I reuse many of the 5 gallon plastic buckets that have held exterior house paints. When the residual paint dries, the buckets are flexible enough and smooth enough that just giving it a few good whacks usually causes the paint to fall out in a chunk. Any remaining can usually be easily scraped out.
I do the same thing. Sometimes you can't help buying plastic, but you can make a difference if you try.
I reuse those 5 gal paint and joint compound buckets for years. In fact, I don't remember throwing one away.
I like metal cans because metal corrodes. I think if there is a little paint left in the cans, it does not necessarily need to be cleaned out. The paint itself will decompose much better than the plastic in plastic paint cans.
I used to like to use styrofoam plates for lots of things because they didn't leak. Now I use paper plates. It is sometimes less harmful to use a plate than to use the soap and water to clean a regular plate. The paper certainly is more environmentally friendly than styrofoam. I also prefer wax-coated paper cups to styrofoam.
We have to be careful in how we legislate environmentally friendly use of resources. I think it was in the Netherlands where the government banned plastic shopping bags. Later they found out that there was something like a 7-fold increase in transportation requirements for paper bags. The extra trucking caused far more damage than the use of the plastic bags.
That's why we need to have really smart governmental guidance on this problem, although with the influence of industry lobbyists, it may be an oxymoron.